Topic: Using ToS against users normal? - page 15. (Read 2955 times)

I would also prefer to get a bookie or a house that is consistent on giving a weekly newspaper for updates. Not just for technical updates and changes but also with the promotion of their outgoing discounts and free plays/bets. Just said, legitimate and established casinos won't just change and shift their TOS and Terms and Conditions in an instant. If there is, there might be an anomaly behind that would prevent users from widthrawing thier funds or putting them in some kind of violations.

This is true. I know I am playing on an old and legit casino and lately, when I log in to them, the first thing that pop up on my screen is a notice about the change of their Terms and Condition. It's one example on how important it is.

They can always email it or put some notification in our account page but no because they know that a gambler might missed it and they are afraid that they will get blamed once the gambler did a violation due to the recent change. Given that TOS is important, you're right that we need to allocate some time to read it. Don't just read the upper part because we might miss some important information in the middle and at the bottom page of it.

ToS do not supersede the law and the law would usually require any service to inform its users of any changes to their ToS and give users an option to opt-out if they do not agree with the changes.

Yes, as per standard practice almost every service would give itself a right to change their ToS but that does not mean they don't have to inform its users of the changes (in advance). But the logic you described, why would the casino have any ToS at all? They seem unnecessary in such scenario, as the casino could effectively do anything they wanted.

If that was stated on the time for a certain user who do just read it up before they do able to play then they cant really make out some complaints in regarding to that because it would really just simply be easily
counteract if ever there would be some suing just because its been stated on there on the first place unless if there's none then you could really make possibly fight on but we know that changing up terms
specially the crucial ones would definitely be putting up on someones mind some questions on how the heck they had been able to changed it up right away which is in lined with your current issue?
Of course you would really be having that kind of thinking that they might be able to changed it up just to make it look that theyre the ones who had been telling the truth. This is why it would really be that important
that you should really be reading up terms and if possible you should really be that making some screenshot if you are really that paranoid when it comes to changes or you do have some trust issues.
Somehow it is really hard to debate against with a platform knowing that they could really be able to show up some evidences that you had missed nor violated of their terms because we know that once a
certain thing is been violated then you cant really blame them on about being locked up or what.

I don't really think that a casino is lawfully supposed to inform the user if they make any changes in their terms and conditions or any rules because most of them even have it written in their terms and conditions that they have the right to make any changes or modification in the rules without the consent of the user and if a user agrees with the terms and conditions when signing up, they agree with this too.

But I do find it unethical if a casino simply modifies a rule or adds new ones without letting their customers know, after all, the rules or terms and conditions are for the customers to know and follow and if they don't know about them, there is simply no point in having them.

The good casino should always be transparent and if there is any change in the terms and condition of the casino they should notified to their gambler publicly as there is nothing to hide in this. Only the scam casino's will try to hide the TOS changes.

Also the users should make a habit to read the terms of service no matter how lengthy they are. They are made for the gamblers and the gambler show read it. In case the gamblers did not follow any gambling casino process and later they get into trouble only because they did not read the terms of service then it is only the fault of the gamblers.

Maybe the gambling casinos should also learn how to summarize these whole thing into one or two pages than the way they often present it sounding unpleasant to the eye for reading because they are just too much, only the most important aspects are needed for the gamblers to see and take note of.


They can as well use an underlined mark on those important aspect to take note of, bold or italize them, some can even number them or make use of bullet numbering, but the main idea is to reduce the bulkiness and learn to summarize in other to make it interesting for gamblers to go through them.

These ToS are nothing more than a sly gambit by companies. They obfuscate important details beneath legalese, and us users? We're left in the dark, aren't we? The call for concise and clear ToS is loud, yet it seems to fall on deaf ears. Why? As you rightly pointed out, it serves their interests! They can mold and manipulate the ToS to their liking, can't they? Warnings about ToS changes are mere formalities, just another hoop for them to jump through. Who actually takes the time to read those lengthy documents? And why would seasoned users abandon a familiar platform because of a ToS change? These questions remain unanswered. In this tech-driven age, it's high time companies stepped up and prioritized transparency. Only then can we move towards a fairer digital landscape!

Well, that might be the legal consensus. But it may come differently based on where is the casino operated, and what kind of regulation is applied to the customer's country. I do believe enforcement of terms of service changes without user consent should make the contract void. And that is what should be enforced, at least morally, the consensual agreement.

The notification of contract(ToS) changes should be informed to the user since they have done legally binding agreements in the first place. Failure to do so would disobey user rights. So, speaking further about it, this is where customer protection comes in handy, but only if the casino/user itself is located in a tightly lawful country which has firm regulations relating to the matter.

The ToS is always very long and usually no one reads it, until for some reason your account is closed or your bets are void. Users should approve a simpler and more understandable text when signing up. When too many procedures and details are involved, no one reads that article, and at the end of this, the website owner can use ToS as he wishes. Important details should always be underlined so that the user knows what they are dealing with.
I don't think there will be a change in this direction because this situation is in the interest of website owners.
Most sites issue warning text when ToS changes. I don't think anyone is reading this though. Habits are not easily changed. A user who has been playing on a site for a long time will not switch to another site because the ToS has changed.

Yeah, I think in most cases, casinos do have quite terrible ToS, particularly in crypto gambling. Unfortunately, letter of the law says if you sign up, and accept them, you must abide by them. I have issue with the "ironclad" clause where casino reserves the right to void winnings if suspicious activity is detected (paraphrasing) but is not required to provide evidence or clarity on what that is.

That part's clear: sign up, accept, and you abide by ToS.

But what OP points out is a change to ToS, and that I must agree is unlawful, if done without the customer being informed. Pretty sure that the legal consensus is that any change to contract must require agreement of all parties -- not sure if a ToS is a contract between player and casino but to me it means that users must explicitly agree to any ToS changes before they can be enforced. Disagree, and you withdraw your casino membership, simple as that.

As I said earlier in another post, Stake has changed their TOS about KYC for new users, and they updated their old users with a pop-up window to ensure their users know the new TOS update. If any casinos change their TOS and do not inform their users, there is something shady behind it. This cannot be considered as a regular practice because I accept some TOS doesn't mean I will accept the new TOS. If I don't know the new TOS and then the casino accuses me of violating the new TOS and confiscates my winnings or bans me for violating the new TOS. This is not my fault. It's the casino's fault that they did not notify me of their ToS Changes.

However, This thing never happened to me. Else I would not let them go. I asked OP whether this was his imaginary question or maybe this happened with someone in recent days. We would like to know that. As far I remember, I have seen Betcoin.Ag tagged by a DT member for changing their ToS without informing their players. I did not explore the reference thread. I am not sure if they really did that. That was an old case, so I did not want to dig it again. But, if it happens in recent days, everyone should stand against it.

I don't think that a reputable or trusted platform would do that at all, Stake is the most famous casino and sports book of the current time and if they don't inform their users after changing or modifying their terms and conditions, it will surely affect their reputation that they've earned within the community and everyone will start doubting their integrity for sure, they will lose a lot of players for that too.

A new casino that isn't much popular yet or have much of a reputation might do something like that where they might make a change in some of the rules in their terms and conditions and don't notify their users about it, which is obviously not a normal thing and shouldn't be done at all.

True that, TOS are not there to punish players.  TOS are created to serve as guidelines on how casino works.  It is also an information for players to follow in accessing the site since. It gives rulings, terminologies, the do's and don'ts and laws that covers the validity of the casino operation.

If the player did not breach any terms on the TOS, then there is no way a casino can use it against a user.  We often see casino use TOS in banning gamblers because this gamblers is suspected to break the TOS but most reputable casino always verify their suspicion first by before permanently banning the player.

Unless they use an email that they rarely see, they don't know there is a change in the TOS, and it makes them disappointed after they win and want to withdraw the money. But whatever it is, we should be able to take the time to check the TOS once a month to make sure there are no changes to the regulations so that we don't run into any problems. And the casino should also be able to notify all its members that there is a change in the rules. It will pay attention to the members so they can know before they play.

I do not understand why we are so much concerned about the terms of service recently 

My point is that if the casino is legit they will never abuse the term of service to damage their clients. The casino business is not for the short term, it can be a long last one if you have returning customers to your site. No good casino sites will play tricks on the customers using the TOS.

On the other hand, if the casino does not have a good reputation and its sole purpose is to scam its clients, it won't do these cheap things like changing the terms or services to scam people. They would openly scam people as either you scam using ToS or without any reason, in both cases you will lose the business, the casinos will lose their clients and in a worse situation the casino might end up completely.

Some conniving online casinos have used Terms of Service to steal from their customers. They put the entire blame on ToS and they are the ones who benefit from it. If the Terms of Service are changed, they should make sure everyone is notified first.

There are as many scam casinos as there are new crypto projects in the crypto space today. In fact, some online casinos don't intend to stay around for the long run. They want to steal and escape with large sums of money.

It's left for gamblers to choose between the casinos that almost everyone on the forum age using or those that no one is talking about, or those online casinos that has no ANN on Bitcointalk from.

I think the same, the TOS of websites change all the time, who has not seen a similar message when one day they log in into their email account or a social media account? This means the changes were important enough to ask their customers to agree again with those terms, and this is completely normal, however a website that just changes those terms without notifying a single user about it is engaging in dishonest behavior and it would not surprise me if they began to scam their customers shortly after it.

It's not "the new normal". It has always been normal. When accepting a terms of service at any particular site, but particularly ones when you engage in a financial transaction or benefit, then you must agree to their set of rules. This is done to ensure that bonuses are correctly shared to unique users and not all hoarded for the benefit of a few, among many other reasons. I don't feel any sympathy for bonus abusers because they just make it less likely everyone else will benefit in the future and it's driven by pure greed. Be careful making the wrong assumptions, sometimes you might see a spare of fraudulent activity from certain countries or groups, who might publicize their plight of getting banned for rule breaking as part of their fraud strategy.