Using ToS against users normal? - page 16.

danadc

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on June 08, 2023, 07:36:34 AM

Quote from: Doan9269 on June 08, 2023, 07:01:22 AM

ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules stated from it, but if not in this case, any gambling platform found with the violation of these as used against it users should be reported and avoided completely, there are many gambling platforms one can always try out if the one you're using is not trusted anymore and challenges like this make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

Going by the first line of your comment, I was going to say that, I've personally come across a situation where a casino kept editing and re-editing their terms or service in a bid to illegally confiscate a user's winning as well as fund left on the user's account.

Scam is everywhere, and scammers implore several means by which they try to carry out their nefarious acts without being suspected.

Anyways, you've spoken well, users never should leave their funds on a casino account, and also report every activity of the casino that looks suspicious.

But if that casino is still there , it is something that I Imagine many people should not have , because nobody is going to Stay in a casino where the rules of the game are constantly being Changed for convenience, if nothing else , Dramas are created for less , now that the rules are changing statutes of a casino so that they can Defend themselves against small problems that makes me Understand that the casino does not have enough money to Respond to its clients and is not Capable of operating , and I do not know why it should continue Online , but you have to be sure in something , once I accept my Terms and Conditions I am not aware if they make Changes to those levels , so I could easily get scammed in that casino , but how to take care of Yourself and not Fall here?

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

No. This is not normal at all. I would say this is scammy behavior. If I remember correctly, a few days ago, Stake.com Changed its terms and conditions. When I logged into my account, I noticed a new window showing they had changed their TOS, and I couldn't close the window until I scrolled it down to the end of it. We know that most casino players don't read the TOS, but they accept the TOS without even reading it during the sign-up process. That doesn't mean casinos don't have to notify a user when they change their TOS. A wise gambling platform should announce its new changes as Stake.com did. If any casino changes its TOS without informing its users, They are doing shady practice.

However, I wonder if this has happened to anyone recently. I am more than interested to know about this. If it's happened to any users, I want to know which platform it was and what happened to the user. This is shady behavior, and if they are on this forum. The user should create a reputation thread against them so that forum members can evaluate their activity. This is not a regular activity at all.

pawel7777

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on June 09, 2023, 08:36:15 AM

Gamblers who are too lazy and careless to read the terms and conditions of a platform before gambling with them will surely have issues once they go ahead and gamble without even understanding the rules and regulations of the casino, such people need to understand that reading the terms and conditions is good for themselves as they won't fall into any issues later on if they do so.

Do you actually read all ToS in full when signing up for any service? People like to publicly shame others for not doing that, but in practice, nobody does that.
Reading them shouldn't be necessary, as the casinos should operate in accordance with the laws of the jurisdictions they provide their services (law > ToS). And if the casino operates illegally, following ToS will not guarantee any protection.
But this thread is not about ToS in general, but about changing them without giving any notice, so not sure how reading them would help.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on June 07, 2023, 01:33:40 AM

It's very hard for many people to spend their time and go through an online casino's Terms of Services, it's going to be a long reading and many don't want it, but my advice is to ask around for any casino that you can gamble on without any KYC verification or you can just make your choice through this forum.

I used to have problems with online casinos that are off this forum but when I started trying the likes of Roobet and others from this forum, I haven't had any weird problems so far, so it looks like those that are complaining really did something wrong or they are falsely accusing the online casinos.

There is a small chance of having a bad experience on any online casinos that people are presently using for gambling on this forum, go with online casinos that has reputation and you won't face any problems, just don't do anything that will put you in problem, I don't use VPN, I don't switch between ISP services, I don't change DNS here and there, changing of location can put you in problems with any online casinos.

Gamblers who are too lazy and careless to read the terms and conditions of a platform before gambling with them will surely have issues once they go ahead and gamble without even understanding the rules and regulations of the casino, such people need to understand that reading the terms and conditions is good for themselves as they won't fall into any issues later on if they do so.

And you are probably right that casino platforms that are available on this forum are mostly trusted and the reason for that is they know this forum has a very wide user base and if their reputation goes wrong from here, they will lose a lot of users and the word will spread pretty fast from this forum to the mainstream world.

mak013

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Quote from: avp2306 on June 08, 2023, 05:10:44 AM

Quote from: mak013 on June 08, 2023, 01:43:10 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

It is strange situation. On the one hand - the casino changes, the rules change, the cheaters change and the casino has to change ToS. But the same time you agreed with the first version of the ToS and if there wasn`t something like "the casino can change ToS due to some situations" you can sue them. But you need some proves like screenshots at least. Unfortunately we don`t make it most times.

This incident happen when a user win a huge prize and they can't pay that, so the only solution they made is to change their rules so that that user will be tag as cheater then he will not be paid for the winnings he got. This situation happen so we should tag those casino doing that as scam since they can't do that on situation like this. This is one of the best reason why we need to read the TOS and get updated with it especially for whales so that casino cannot use a TOS reason when they they bag some good cash on then while legitimately playing.

Can you mark me the post where the OP told us about it? Why you decided so? I specially read the OP`s posts twice and didn`t find this information. And for casino it is normal to change the ToS and i told why.
The same time gamblers mostly don`t read the ToS and they can`t say if something changed. And very often gamblers like to cry that the casino cheated them, but after reading rules we see that they tried to cheat, not casino.

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Quote from: Reatim on June 08, 2023, 06:37:38 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

actually this will only favor them in short term because every wrong doings will have response from the players and they may run away from some but surely not in permanent situation.
we have seen some gambling site that did this and yes eventually their reputation dies and now ? they are not even exceed from their past activities.

It's like being given a novel-length version of the Terms of Service and being expected to grasp it like we're all attorneys. Some gaming sites engage in a 'cloak-and-dagger' tactic that is more than dishonest; it's downright frustrating. That's not cool.

I've witnessed shady dealings like that myself, and retribution is a vicious thing. They could temporarily deceive naive consumers, but the internet remembers everything. Their credibility would be shot to pieces with just one thread on Reddit or tweet exposing their shady business methods.

However, we also need to step up our performance. Keep an eye on the ToS at all times, record any modifications, and don't be afraid to call them out when necessary. We are more than just participants in their game; we have a vested interest in the success of this online gambling hub.

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Quote from: klidex on June 08, 2023, 11:06:49 AM

If you only leave small amounts of funds at the casino, that's not a problem, but if gamblers use large amounts of money to gamble, it is better to withdraw it immediately after playing and decide to stop to avoid bad things.
Even though playing at a trusted casino, caution and vigilance must remain a priority.

I agree with you and however keeping large funds in the casino is a risky thing especially if the funds are really in very large amounts.
I'm sure some wealthy gamblers make deposits and withdrawals around the clock to keep the money they gamble with safe, although it does cost more but if it's worth the security of the money then cost is not an issue.

By the way, many gamblers complain of problems because they forget to read the TOS at the casino, so they violate existing rules and their accounts or money are frozen.
I think that every gambler should read the high five before registering or depositing their money.
This kind of thing is very unfortunate because they actually blame the casino for the problems they have caused themselves.

pawel7777

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Quote from: Doan9269 on June 08, 2023, 07:01:22 AM

ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules

This doesn't quite make sense. "Rules" are defined by ToS, so you're essentially saying that ToS are not meant to be used against the user unless the user violates ToS.

Quote from: Doan9269 on June 08, 2023, 07:01:22 AM

make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

I'd change this statement to say don't hold more in your casino balance than you need to. If you win, just withdraw to your bank account/crypto wallet and leave only the amount you intend to use for gambling in the future (if any at all).
In other words, gambling sites should not be used as bank accounts or wallets.

klidex

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on June 08, 2023, 07:36:34 AM

Scam is everywhere, and scammers implore several means by which they try to carry out their nefarious acts without being suspected.

If it's the first time they cheat, surely no one can suspect them, even they look very good without any thought that it's actually a fraud.
But when the fraudulent act has consumed enough victims, not only suspicions but complaints about the fraud they are committing have spread by themselves.

Quote

Anyways, you've spoken well, users never should leave their funds on a casino account, and also report every activity of the casino that looks suspicious.

If you only leave small amounts of funds at the casino, that's not a problem, but if gamblers use large amounts of money to gamble, it is better to withdraw it immediately after playing and decide to stop to avoid bad things.
Even though playing at a trusted casino, caution and vigilance must remain a priority.

Fivestar4everMVP

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Quote from: Doan9269 on June 08, 2023, 07:01:22 AM

ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules stated from it, but if not in this case, any gambling platform found with the violation of these as used against it users should be reported and avoided completely, there are many gambling platforms one can always try out if the one you're using is not trusted anymore and challenges like this make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

Going by the first line of your comment, I was going to say that, I've personally come across a situation where a casino kept editing and re-editing their terms or service in a bid to illegally confiscate a user's winning as well as fund left on the user's account.

Scam is everywhere, and scammers implore several means by which they try to carry out their nefarious acts without being suspected.

Anyways, you've spoken well, users never should leave their funds on a casino account, and also report every activity of the casino that looks suspicious.

Doan9269

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ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules stated from it, but if not in this case, any gambling platform found with the violation of these as used against it users should be reported and avoided completely, there are many gambling platforms one can always try out if the one you're using is not trusted anymore and challenges like this make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

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Quote from: Reatim on June 08, 2023, 06:37:38 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

actually this will only favor them in short term because every wrong doings will have response from the players and they may run away from some but surely not in permanent situation.
we have seen some gambling site that did this and yes eventually their reputation dies and now ? they are not even exceed from their past activities.

Running a gambling site is not easy. Its main asset for profitability in the business is its reputation. If a gambling site were to destroy that reputation, it can expect that gamblers will leave the site, and sooner or later, the business will close. Those who attempt to take advantage by illegally changing the terms will not be able to survive in an industry where competition is very tough.

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

actually this will only favor them in short term because every wrong doings will have response from the players and they may run away from some but surely not in permanent situation.
we have seen some gambling site that did this and yes eventually their reputation dies and now ? they are not even exceed from their past activities.

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It doesn't sound right if it's used against us gamblers because it portrays a negative image. If gambling sites were to change their Terms of Service (TOS), it should be justifiable and in compliance with government regulations or their licensing provider, to be more specific. Personally, even though most of the gambling sites I play on don't notify users about changes in the TOS, I am not worried because I have confidence that they are fair.

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Quote from: mak013 on June 08, 2023, 01:43:10 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

It is strange situation. On the one hand - the casino changes, the rules change, the cheaters change and the casino has to change ToS. But the same time you agreed with the first version of the ToS and if there wasn`t something like "the casino can change ToS due to some situations" you can sue them. But you need some proves like screenshots at least. Unfortunately we don`t make it most times.

This incident happen when a user win a huge prize and they can't pay that, so the only solution they made is to change their rules so that that user will be tag as cheater then he will not be paid for the winnings he got. This situation happen so we should tag those casino doing that as scam since they can't do that on situation like this. This is one of the best reason why we need to read the TOS and get updated with it especially for whales so that casino cannot use a TOS reason when they they bag some good cash on then while legitimately playing.

mak013

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

It is strange situation. On the one hand - the casino changes, the rules change, the cheaters change and the casino has to change ToS. But the same time you agreed with the first version of the ToS and if there wasn`t something like "the casino can change ToS due to some situations" you can sue them. But you need some proves like screenshots at least. Unfortunately we don`t make it most times.

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It's very hard for many people to spend their time and go through an online casino's Terms of Services, it's going to be a long reading and many don't want it, but my advice is to ask around for any casino that you can gamble on without any KYC verification or you can just make your choice through this forum.

I used to have problems with online casinos that are off this forum but when I started trying the likes of Roobet and others from this forum, I haven't had any weird problems so far, so it looks like those that are complaining really did something wrong or they are falsely accusing the online casinos.

There is a small chance of having a bad experience on any online casinos that people are presently using for gambling on this forum, go with online casinos that has reputation and you won't face any problems, just don't do anything that will put you in problem, I don't use VPN, I don't switch between ISP services, I don't change DNS here and there, changing of location can put you in problems with any online casinos.

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Quote from: komisariatku on June 06, 2023, 08:09:09 PM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

I don't know which gambling site you play on. But if you register on a well-known and trusted gambling site, they will send you an email when the TOS changes. So if they change the TOS and don't tell you, it's not normal. I think you should leave the site.

i've never had a bad experience with TOS. i play the game normally and never try to cheat. I think all TOS are the same, I rarely read TOS but never had a problem with it.

I've never deposited much money, only $50 -$100. My biggest win was only about $1000. I don't know if withdrawing more than $10.000, maybe if the site will be cheating, they can ban you for violating TOS. But that's an assumption, I never win much money, I only play small bet

I've never played at dubious gambling sites, even though they offer a lot of bonuses. It's better to play it safe and don't try to play on gambling sites that don't have a good reputation.

That's why we have to really confirm the rules and maybe ask the support service whether there have been changes in the rules or they are still the same as before. It's important to ensure everything before we withdraw so that we can withdraw the money smoothly and not encounter any problems. And it's true that if we play at a trusted casino, we definitely will be fine because the casino always prioritizes customer satisfaction so they will make sure everything goes well.

Trusted casinos always notify their customers if they make changes to the rules. So all members will know about it and adjust to the casino's rules. And it's better not to try to play gambling at questionable casinos because we don't know how good the service is.

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

I don't know which gambling site you play on. But if you register on a well-known and trusted gambling site, they will send you an email when the TOS changes. So if they change the TOS and don't tell you, it's not normal. I think you should leave the site.

i've never had a bad experience with TOS. i play the game normally and never try to cheat. I think all TOS are the same, I rarely read TOS but never had a problem with it.

I've never deposited much money, only $50 -$100. My biggest win was only about $1000. I don't know if withdrawing more than $10.000, maybe if the site will be cheating, they can ban you for violating TOS. But that's an assumption, I never win much money, I only play small bet

I've never played at dubious gambling sites, even though they offer a lot of bonuses. It's better to play it safe and don't try to play on gambling sites that don't have a good reputation.

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Quote from: wiss19 on June 06, 2023, 11:03:19 AM

Quote from: Wexnident on June 05, 2023, 05:37:07 PM

Quote from: Webetcoins on May 30, 2023, 11:29:51 AM

No it's not automatically called as a scam but this act is only normal. A company can truly change their terms as much as they can even without notifying their users but some casinos already give a warning about it so other users are also aware of that possibility but there might be some casinos who don't do that. This why some users are angry about them in case they can get affected by the change.

The solution is just stop playing there and make it a habit to check their terms next time to see if they have a rule about changing terms automatically. We don't usually take a copy of the TOS because it's a wall of text but maybe we will now do it, only to have an evidence in case the issue occurred later on.

For real? I mean if the ToS has a line in it then I guess it's reasonable for them to just update it without informing their users (or asking for their agreement again whenever they change it) but isn't "updating" their users about changes something required for businesses to have? It is something like a contract between the user and the website/casino after all, albeit an online one. I don't have one so I don't really know about it though.

As for those who use it, well, the moment they used it they were pushed out of "legal" businesses in my mind though.

I don't think it's a contract or anything like that because it's between a service provider and a customer and the service provider usually has its own rules and change or modifies them whenever they want to based on the needs of its business model, and the customer doesn't really have any say in it and all they can do is either accept the changes or leave the platform and migrate somewhere else.

Now whether they should inform their users about the changes beforehand or after making them is totally dependent on what they want, if they want to keep their customers updated with everything, they will surely do it, but if they don't care, they won't.

It would really be just fine of those changes wouldnt really be directly be affecting your withdrawal but on the time that you would be experiencing some hardship on making withdraws and find out that
they are basing on their updated TOS then you would really be having in mind about those changes might be that intentional. This is why it would really be always important that you should read up
terms and conditions on which it would really be that needed because if you do assure yourself that there's no way that you do able to violate their terms then you do have at least sure
that they have been doing such shady act.

But on the time that you had missed out on reading those terms and on the time that it would be used against you. Then what would you do? What would be the things that you are tending
to fight for?

Topic: Using ToS against users normal? - page 16. (Read 2955 times)