Topic: Using ToS against users normal? - page 2. (Read 2954 times)

Well, the truth is I don't know why it says that casinos can change their Tos and without notifying, I'm not saying anything that the Tos can be changed in the bonuses, that one bonus is different from another, but, I think that the Tos in a site like A casino that is like its rules, its laws, is like changing the constitution of a country without consulting the Ubelo in order to do it, what we commonly call a dictatorship, which is the case in some countries, but even a casino is not willing to do things like that Because as you say, when they do it that way, it is so that the player has no chance of being victorious under any scheme, and this is not the idea either, the casino already has its house advantage, and a player wins when he wins. It is because he was lucky, he persevered and won, and that must be recognized and they must do everything necessary so that he can withdraw his money, because once a player loses, I have not seen a single casino that says that it was their mistake and that they will return the deinor to their euna, that does not happen anywhere.

So with respect to the other thing you are talking about, it is very true, if there is a casino that defrauds its players, it is very easy for that casino to lose, no matter the great heavy machinery in fucking marketing, because if they did things wrong, a single player is capable of starting a revolt so that everyone goes against the casino, and even more so when they have contusive evidence, that is something that is very feasible, firstly because players know each other, there are communities, there are other forums, with an experience, they know it can tarnish all the effort that a casino has made or have a good reputation, it is something that takes a lot to build but that can be damaged by the slightest act of dishonesty, that is why as good players we must be alert before any accusation, when it is obviously well Answer if it is an accusation of fraud, to the comments of the DT members, because fraud is something unforgivable, it is not judged that any site abuses its power to be able to take money from the players, and something that is not justified.

Even if users are informed of changes in terms of service, a vast majority of users would not pay attention to it because usually, they don't include what has been changed...Just that it has been changed. So, users must re-read the document that they most likely did not read when they ticked "agree" upon signing up.

I am working on a thread that will list active, valid and unresolved complaints about TOS and non-TOS related account closures and suspensions. Hopefully this will open peoples eyes to the amount of complaints that have been submitted about a large portion of the casinos in this board.

I doubt the casino will go into detail about what suspicious activity the casino has found, especially if you ask about it at support. They will only say that they found suspicious activity carried out by a gambler so they are forced to ask for a more complete clarification from the gambler, including asking them to do KYC if necessary. And if the gambler really didn't do anything that he was accused of, he can do KYC to prove it. If he really didn't do the things that he was accused of, the casino should immediately process his KYC and approve the verification and process the withdrawal of money. But if that happens in a shady casino, the casino will still not do anything and will even freeze the gambler's account so he can't do anything and the gambler can only complain about the problem without any resolution.

If the deposit was made by someone who just joined their casino in the past few days, it would obviously raise the suspicions of the casino so that the casino will ask him to do KYC. The gambler shouldn't do something like that because depositing a lot of money in a casino where he is new will raise suspicions and it is better for him to avoid it first. He has to wait until at least a month or so not to deposit big money and only make small to mid deposit or he can increase his deposit gradually so the casino doesn't suspect him. But the casino will still ask him to do KYC verification if he exceeds the limit in the casino because it has become a kind of obligation that the gamblers must fulfil.

In this case, the casino has the authority and not a third party because it has nothing to do with it. But it happens more often in shady casinos because they will easily accuse their customers of activity and have to go through a thorough vetting process which can take up to weeks. This makes its customers feel uncomfortable because they have to wait a long time and even though they ask the casino the same thing through the support service, their answer is the same and they are told to wait.

this will only shows how tricky those site is , it is normal to change TOS without notifying player , but the tricky part here is when they just changed that said terms after someone wins big and need to withdraw.
that makes them an obvious scammer/cheater.
don't worry mate , eventually ? this will turns against them because the players itself will learn and let the world knows about theit attitude and surely , will let their players leave them and also no new visitors may enters.

If there are some slight changes then for sure they wont really be making out some announcement but if it does have that significant change then it would be definitely be announced whether on-site or via email.

Most of the time it wont really be that be told about those changes yet usually changes made doesnt really give out much impact or effect into its users unless if this one changes on restricted countries
or to those compulsory KYC then it would really be something that will really be told about. If a certain casino do make out those kind of reasoning about violating some terms and conditions and you havent been able to read it up earlier then there's no way that you do have the confidence on fighting or making some reasoning just because you had just simply missed out on reading it out on the first place.

This is why it would really be that always important that you should be reading up those TOS on the time that you do play so that at least that you are really that able to be aware
if there are some changes made if ever they would be throwing up those kind of issues or violations into you.

talking about suspicious activities, I have often seen in the totes of many casinos talk about suspicious activities, but in the same totes of the casinos they do not talk in detail about what exactly they consider to be suspicious activities and in case any account is detected any suspicious activity what kind of evidence the casino will show the customer and also the types of punishment the casino will apply, if the casinos gave details about this it would have saved people a lot of headaches. but unfortunately many casinos don't do this, and the reason they don't do it in my opinion is because many casinos use their TOS as a weapon

for example a person deposits $1,000,000 in the casino, at that moment the casino will not ask for kyc and will not detect any suspicious activity, so that person plays in the casino and loses all money, the casino will not ask that person to kyc and will not accuse that person person of having done something suspicious, but if the same person months later deposits 1,000,000$ and plays in the casino and wins something like 3x and keeps 3,000,000$ and then withdraws the money, then at that time kyc will be asked and when will this person hands over their documents and everything is fine, then the casino will use its most reliable and accurate weapon, the TOS and not all, the casino will accuse the customer of having done something suspicious

and the casino will not show evidence of what the customer is accusing, the casino's argument is that they cannot show evidence because that would expose the system that the casino uses to detect cheaters, so that person's funds stay with the casino, this happens a lot in new casinos, and even with some established casinos. unfortunately we do not have a company that moderates conflicts of this type, a third party that would be reliable and that the casinos would show evidence and thus have more transparency in this market

This raises a natural question: if a player uses a VPN, then this automatically means that he either simply bypasses possible blocking of the casino site in the country where he really lives. 
Or it may be an option that such a player, in principle, wants to remain completely anonymous and even tries to hide the real country where he is located.  So in this second case there is one very unpleasant contradiction.  It lies in the fact that if a player wins a large amount in a casino, then it is very likely that the casino will require him to undergo the KYC procedure and fully reveal his identity. 
Otherwise, he will not be allowed to transfer the money won to his wallet.  In this case, the use of a VPN will obviously create problems with identification.  In particular, for this reason, as I think, the casino may well find fault and begin to oppose the payment of this winnings in every possible way.  At the same time, the natural question from the casino is, why did the player actually use VPN at all? 
If the player simply bypassed the blocking of the site of this casino, adopted by the decision of the regulatory authorities of the country, then the player violated local laws and regulations, but if he hides his identity in case of receiving undeclared income from winnings, and uses a VPN, then he also violates local laws. 
As a result, everything turns out badly.

Yes, it is very true, in fact there are casinos such as Bitcasino that have their own blog where they have very interesting articles and there is one in particular that talks about VPNs and casinos, how is it that they do accept the use of the VPN without any problem, which I applaud because I think that it is that they value the fact that they use the VPN and accept it much more than other casinos, this should be an example for other casinos, so that they can do something similar and so on take the lead, I believe that people who do this with a VPN and skip the priorities that their own countries have imposed on them that prevent them from entering to play in a casino, because I consider that entering a casino is not something that asks to be considered as illegal, if we don't see it from a much deeper perspective, we realize that governments always look for excuses to have control over people, not only crypto, and especially eprsoans that use bitcoin, they also mess with something that is fun, the casinos, they want to regulate, they want to know every movie, and if they do not submit to their licenses, then they simply do not operate in that country, what absurd things, but like that It is, what seems totally absurd is that a casino adheres to that and does not allow the use of the casino to people from countries that are considered banned.

I am very surprised that the USA is one of the countries that is usually suspended in some casinos, in the case of stake.us it is a great option that you have so that you can do things right there, it offers you the same services and operates From the USA, this is a great achievement, but apart from the USA you can see many efforts by people from other countries, in China, African countries, some South American countries where they are permanently banned, which I don't see sense in, However, as I said before, I applaud those casinos that do allow the use of VPN, and that allow free taste so that people from other countries have that freedom to play.

Usually it only happens to small casinos, it won't happen to big casinos, which of course protect their reputation better, so they have to be transparent in changing the TOS, whatever that is, it's important for users to know, because if it's done without the user knowing, it's certain that the casino has the intention to cheat users, then from that's probably something that we often only find in small casinos.

No big casino so far I've seen Closed silent on TOS changes because I play in some big casinos almost on average they update TOS always announce it via email to users or through their site for users to read the rules and terms that apply, therefore why it is highly recommended to play in casinos that have a high reputation as opposed to new and small casinos.

Yes, it is true that casinos can change the TOS without prior notification to customers. But it would be better if the casino notifies customers by sending a notification email or a window that appears when they log in. It will be the same as what we get in the Stake so the customer will know that there is a change in the TOS and we are asked to review it and approve it. If we don't agree, we can move to another casino and there is no compulsion from the casino for us to stay and use the casino to gamble. It is a choice for us and we alone know what the choice is.

Each customer is responsible for making sure they agree with the changing TOS so they can choose what to do. Again, no casino forces us to stay in the casino even if the casino changes the rules because we want to gamble in the casino and we know where we want to gamble. We don't need to follow other people to agree to changes in the TOS because that will depend on the comfort we get while gambling at the casino. And if we are comfortable, even if there are TOS changes, we will stay at the casino.

Casinos can confiscate customer money if the casino finds suspicious activity from customers. And the casino can even do it without notifying the customer but it would be better if the casino told the customer. And the casino can show valid evidence to its customers that the casino finds something suspicious in the customer's account so the casino feels the need to ask its customers to do KYC.

Players need to check further to find out what the rules have changed. If you don't find it, you can contact the support service so they can point out any changes in the rules and the support service will be happy to show us. We should be more active in finding out and not asking the casino to show it, even though we can contact support. That's why the casino has a support service that is always ready to help its customers if they find something they need help understanding so that the support service can explain it in detail to its customers. But still, we are the ones who have to be responsible for everything we do at the casino.

I think most of the time, gambling sites do not notify their users.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that it's just a rare case where even when we are not notified of the changes in the Terms and Conditions, we are still safe in our usual doings. I also think that in most cases where sites are using the Terms of Service against their users is, if the user won an insane amount and subject to investigation first even the winnings are done fair.

No choice but to comply with what they need. If they tell us some shitty reason why they shouldn't handle the win, let's fight back by exposing their name on various gambling platforms and showing the community all the proof. But I still believe there are lots of trusted sites out there that by just following what they need and being asked, will soon hand out our withdrawals smoothly.

It is really just that people are really that missing out those information or updates just because they werent able to check out their emails and come in mind that on the time that we do make out some registration then we
do always have that checkbox on subscribing on their email letters which only a few might that be mindful on unticking those boxes because they dont really like to be bombarded with lots of useless emails specially
if you are really that making in use with your main emails on which it would really be that understandable on having this kind of preference. Even myself doesnt really like that but most of the time i do really just let those
email subscription would really be there. Its true that if ever they would be making out changes then it would be preferable if there would really be some pop outs but it would really be just that right if ever there would be
some big changes with those terms but if those are really just minimal ones then i dont see for it to be that really that needed for you to know on whats happening or those changes but for the sake of transparency
then some sites might that mindful about it and would be showing no matter how minimal it would be.

They should notify you, but I’m sure they probably do. Some sites have newsletters they email out that you can opt out of. I think they probably don’t want to bother you every time they update their terms. I assume most of the time they’re doing it because they have to legally, not because they’re trying to target their own users.

I remember that some time ago I made a thread about notifications: which was the best way. 1.email,  2.internal message in the casino, or 3.any other way lik, e.g. msm via Telegram, etc... even on social networks, that is vital to be able to believe that they did not do it in bad faith.

There are casinos that do that, so you have to look for it, there they are, although in effect sometimes we go through that bad information that never arrives and then it is as you say, but as I already said it can happen to you once, it is avoided by looking for Casinos that have it largest way of information, come on! It is digital, so, it is easy to make the notification through all these ways.

No, it's not normal and not acceptable.
Any reputable casino or any other service provider must inform its users about any updates in their terms of service. They must also mention when the last time their terms were updated. Besides new terms and rules should not have a retroactive effect. Any company that doesn't do this does not respect its customers and it should be avoided at all costs.

The case with VPN usage can mostly be dealt with when it involve new accounts since most of those that use VPN also use it to create multiple accounts on the casino either to claimabuses or abusing the casino with such bonuses, This is aside from the other fact that those that use VPN do so to avoid restrictions.

But in a case where the account is already a verified one,  the player can use a VPN to gamble freely from anywhere that way,  the casino already knows that such a gambler is doing so with clear intentions.

Some casino permits the use of VPN but also outlines its limitation and usage restrictions

I agree with what you say, with crypto there must always be a model of anonymity and privacy, it is not that anything we do with crypto is already known in the government or in some entities, whether they are banks, because That lends itself to many things, to collect taxes, to follow up, to see when you can win or lose, and to see how they do to take a part of that, and actually this technology was invented by Satoshi to bypass all Kinds of Regulations that It comes from Governments and third-party entities, which are Essentially in control of Everything, so if we Always Collaborate with KYC regulations, what was the use of all Satoshi's efforts? Although I can say something, the crypto, especially bitcoin jam's A government can have control, and fortunately things are like that, because it is not fair that it has it, apart from the fact that the conditions under which they are done must always be very strict, so if we start accepting fiat money conditions in crypto, it does not lose satoshi, loses is the person who does and accepts what a government tells him.

In part, it will always be very good to have a cypto account that a casino that is under a totally fiat currency, because the deposits with credit cards , with Deposits and bank Transfers , all this will be seen by the entities related to the government , so it is not the idea either, well at least it doesn't seem to me because it seems to me that things should be with respect to money that the government or any type of bajnco or something like that have control over our finances, although there are people who don't even pay attention to telling them all that They or some of them prefer to remain under the yoke of a bank, third parties or even worse that a government imposes on them, that is why I have always had a very irreverent attitude regarding these things, because a government will never Prepare for uqe give it benefits to your people, it is a lie and even so in some countries people Kill themselves for their rulers, which I see as a rather ridiculous attitude, but everyone knows what they want , what they think is Something very free and Everyone will learn when I should Learn..

^I agree with this and for me, when a casino raises suspicion about an activity, it is definitely not something to dismiss lightly. Any suspicion can lead to serious consequences, including monitoring of your account and potential restrictions on access until the matter is resolved.
The use of VPNs is a prime example of something that should be approached with caution. While you probably think it is acceptable to use a VPN because you are not in a restricted area, casinos often have specific policies about VPN usage due to the potential for abuse or misrepresentation. It is always crucial to clarify the casino's stance on VPN usage before employing one, to avoid inadvertently causing trouble for your account. So, therefore, it is better to understand very well the TOS.

In case there is a suspicion, it shouldn't be thought of as not a big deal.  Once you are suspected by the casino, you will be monitored and possibly unable to access your acount until the suspicion is cleared.  With regards to the use of VPN, we must clarify first if it is allowed to use VPN or not.  We will be in trouble if we happen to use a VPN thinking that it is ok since we are not in the restricted area but find out that any means of VPN usage is not accepted by the casino.  This will bring trouble in your account, so we must always think first and inquire before using anything that can possibly jeopardize our account.