Using ToS against users normal? - page 22.

Mr. Magkaisa

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

- Such a scenario has happened many times that as you say, just not notifying their users that there was a change in their
TOS is a big mistake.

It turns out that they did that because they knew that many people would take out large amounts of money, so they immediately preceded it with a big change so that their gamblers could not take out a lot of money.

Then this is not normal for a crypto gambling because it appears that they do not value the trust of their players but rather they take advantage of it in the name of money that they think should not be released, which is like stealing what it used to be.

Doan9269

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Quote from: ThemePen on May 26, 2023, 02:27:28 AM

Terms of Services can be changed at anytime but if a casino will not notify its users so users will leave their casinos so any good company never try to lose its users.
By the way in my view mostly people don't read the full ToS they just touch the accept button and go a head and start using the services. By the way the casinos, not only casinos every company should notify its users about changing ToS.

Terms of service aren't aimed to be used against the gamblers, it will rather be the gamblers that doesn't understand their terms of service that would have leads to their roughly encounters with the gambling platforms or casinos, also part of their ToS, they would have stated that their policy is under review amd can change from anytime, which indicates that whenever you're gambling and comes about something strange then it's expected of you to make moves in knowing why by going through their ToS again if some things have changed there.

noormcs5

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Are you talking about any specific casino which did change their terms of service without notifying the users? If so, you should share the name of that casino so that we all are aware of any such casino.

Generally speaking, there is not such way to know if the casino silently changed their terms and conditions. Someone who have first thoroughly read and understand the ToS and then regularly monitor the terms of service to see any changes can only figure out such changes, if any. Mostly gamblers will not care about these terms unless and until they are in a situation where they need a help and the ToS favors the casino.

Pmalek

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In all honesty, most players don't read the Terms & Conditions before signing up, let alone if there are some changes. So they aren't aware of the rules they have to respect at any point in time. I have never experienced anything like that myself. But then again, I don't experiment with new and untested platforms to even give them a chance to mess with me. Stick with the few tested and reliable platforms that we have.

Most T&Cs state that they can be amended at any time. By registering an account, you also agree to those changes. Preferably, the casino would let you know if they made big changes, especially if they affect you personally based on your location, gaming activities, etc.

If you experience something like that, leave that site and don't return. Also, warn the community about your experience.

Adbitco

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Changing their TOS isn't that bad but at least should notify all their members who are active players or even to those who aren't active.
As user you need to accept the changes or even though your weren't comfortable with site you may decide to abandoned them to another which you found pleasing and attractive than just worrying yourself over a little a chnage.

As far as I know, casino or gambling sites are becoming too competitions nowadays and if any of which doesn't meet your criteria then you have to change them for another better one. Although most times I understand that gamblers always have their preferred site which the constantly use and they are more friendly with them, at this point it became worrisome and annoying their users.

Bitinity

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Luckily I have never faced significant issue in all online casinos where I used to play. Without a doubt there are many cases out there where shady casinos use their terms for their own benefits but I dont think the same thing is happening in reputable casinos. This is why it is always recommended to play in reputable casinos, in case we want to try new site then we should be really smart to check the casino first. If we feel that there is something fishy, skip and leave the casino.

mindrust

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Quote from: _act_ on May 26, 2023, 02:10:38 AM

Quote from: mindrust on May 26, 2023, 01:16:19 AM

If a user breaks ToS, then the casino should lock the user's account and let him withdraw his money.

If the gamblers deposited money is traced to criminal activities, the casino should let the gambler to withdraw his money?
If the gambler has been using multiple accounts to claim 100% bonus and referring himself. Won't that lead to argument in a way that the casino may not want to give the gambler back all his money and his accounts would be merged into one.

What if the gambler is gambling from a restricted country and he won huge amount of money. The casino gave him back his deposit but did not give him the money won. That is another scenario. But if he has lost the whole money, no money would be given him back.

Just follow the terms and conditions and do not violate it because there are some situations that the casino will not give back the customer money and not seeing as scam.

Did you read the rest of my post? I said if the player caused serious harm, then the casino should indeed seize the funds. If it was something like using multi acc, using VPN etc and it didn't caused any financial dmg then why seize the funds? It makes no sense. Some people use multi acc because they forget their old acc's password and create a new acc instead of trying to remember the pass of their old acc. Should the casino seize the money of this player? Of course no.

smyslov

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Gamblers should be aware of this, they should be aware of casinos changing their TOS but not informing their members, so in case there are issues arises the casino can easily win the case because the TOS always favors this, so members should check the most important provisions on the TOS that casino will likely change, like the use of VPN or KYC, this has been the issue many casinos are using against those who violate.

ethereumhunter

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Casino sites must notify users if the casino changes its terms and conditions to all its members because it is a form of service from the casino to its members. This can also provide comfort to its members and if they do not agree with the new rules of the casino, the members can do something like move to another casino or ask the support service.

But I think some casinos don't announce the new terms and conditions so many of the members are surprised and don't think that casinos are doing that. Stake recently updated their rules and notified them when users logged in to their accounts.

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Quote from: ThemePen on May 26, 2023, 02:27:28 AM

Terms of Services can be changed at anytime but if a casino will not notify its users so users will leave their casinos so any good company never try to lose its users.
By the way in my view mostly people don't read the full ToS they just touch the accept button and go a head and start using the services. By the way the casinos, not only casinos every company should notify its users about changing ToS.

A company that making a changes on company ToS should notify this specific changes on customers. This practice is very common on exchange that is regulated. They are using email to notify every users of their services but this protocol is different on gambling company since they only changing minor revisions that is not gonna give impact to the players daily gambling experience. This is why casino is very rare to notify their users and just add a special note that they might change terms details from time to time.

But changing a terms just for the sake of using it against the existing case of users is different story.

ScamViruS

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

A legit casino will notify their users if they change any kind of ToS. And some casinos always want to know how to keep their customers in the dark so that they can take more advantage at the right time against the gambler when that gambler breaks the rules because they don't read about the new ToS. Then it is really frustrating with the gambler as he is cheated by the casino not to inform him about the new ToS update. So gamblers should be careful in choosing a casino.

ThemePen

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Terms of Services can be changed at anytime but if a casino will not notify its users so users will leave their casinos so any good company never try to lose its users.
By the way in my view mostly people don't read the full ToS they just touch the accept button and go a head and start using the services. By the way the casinos, not only casinos every company should notify its users about changing ToS.

_act_

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Quote from: mindrust on May 26, 2023, 01:16:19 AM

If a user breaks ToS, then the casino should lock the user's account and let him withdraw his money.

If the gamblers deposited money is traced to criminal activities, the casino should let the gambler to withdraw his money?
If the gambler has been using multiple accounts to claim 100% bonus and referring himself. Won't that lead to argument in a way that the casino may not want to give the gambler back all his money and his accounts would be merged into one.

What if the gambler is gambling from a restricted country and he won huge amount of money. The casino gave him back his deposit but did not give him the money won. That is another scenario. But if he has lost the whole money, no money would be given him back.

Just follow the terms and conditions and do not violate it because there are some situations that the casino will not give back the customer money and not seeing as scam.

mindrust

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

If a user breaks ToS, then the casino should lock the user's account and let him withdraw his money. Most casinos do it that way but some of them don't even let the user withdraw his money and that's where it becomes a scammy behavior. If the user harmed the casino financially, I can understand that behavior since they have to make up for the damages he caused but if not, then this act is completely unnecessary. Some of those people don't even realize that it was against the ToS to use a VPN for example... you can't seize these people's money so easily.

delfastTions

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Quote from: Wexnident on May 26, 2023, 12:49:49 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

That's not a casino, that's a scam. Legitimate casinos would notify users of the changes in their ToS possibly weeks, maybe even months before they implement them. It's just something natural. If a casino didn't do so and updated them without notifying their users, I'd just leave since they've fully committed to scamming at least one person with that change.

Afaik there has been some people who were victims, I recall some of them provided proofs while others claimed to be victims but sadly no proof was shown. It is hard though since in the first place, who takes a copy of the ToS of a casino? I certainly don't.

And here is where an interesting question arises. Even if you download the TOS text for yourself at the moment when you read the rules, if the casino is fraudulent, then it may claim that the rules you downloaded were faked and they were different. Even having an archive page with the text of TOS, I think it is quite difficult to prove its authenticity. But I certainly think that such fraudulent actions with the texts of the rules are only done by fraudulent casino sites. Any reputable and well-known casino, of course, must somehow notify the players about the change in the rules in advance.
The main question that worries everyone is, of course, the withdrawal of money won at the casino to your account, whether KYC is needed, commission rates, and sinilar issues.

Wexnident

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

That's not a casino, that's a scam. Legitimate casinos would notify users of the changes in their ToS possibly weeks, maybe even months before they implement them. It's just something natural. If a casino didn't do so and updated them without notifying their users, I'd just leave since they've fully committed to scamming at least one person with that change.

Afaik there has been some people who were victims, I recall some of them provided proofs while others claimed to be victims but sadly no proof was shown. It is hard though since in the first place, who takes a copy of the ToS of a casino? I certainly don't.

Don Pedro Dinero

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A decent casino should send an email notifying of changes. After all, many customers won't even bother to read the email. Another thing is that the casino is not so decent and changes the ToS a lot and without warning.

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

You seem to have a specific casino in mind. Share it with us and we can discuss it together.

Blitzboy

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Oh boy, you've hit a nerve! If there's one thing that gets my goat, it's a gambling website that changes its ToS on the fly like a chameleon changing colors. Unfortunately, it happens, and it's far from being the laughing matter.

Is it normal? Maybe in the "shadier" corners of the online gambling world. Should we accept it? Heck no! There's no reason why users should be left in the dark when it comes to changes in the ToS.

It's high time we put our foot down and demand transparency. One approach could be to lobby for stricter regulations requiring online gambling platforms to announce any changes to their terms and conditions. Let's make this an exciting challenge instead of a tiresome struggle!

serjent05

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Reputable casinos will always take responsibility for informing their users if there is any TOS modification. Just like recently when Stake had their amendment on the TOS, they inform their players by forced popping the new TOS on the screen of the player while giving them the option to accept the new term.

Those who do not inform their players of any TOS changes can be said unethical because it is the most important thing that a player must know while playing on the gambling platform.

qwertyup23

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

I do think that some gambling companies change their TOS without any notice to their users. This happens usually when an active player has a claim against the gambling company and the latter wants to refuse giving out something.

If this happens, this is considered as fraud and this should be reported immediately in this forum to notify everyone about their behaviour. This kind of scheme should not be tolerated at all cost given that they are defrauding their players blatantly with this kind of act.

Topic: Using ToS against users normal? - page 22. (Read 2955 times)