Using ToS against users normal? - page 18.

Wapfika

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Quote from: Mr. Magkaisa on June 01, 2023, 03:27:19 AM

- If a casino wants to change their Tos, I think it's their right because they are the ones who oversee it. And only us gamblers have nothing to do but follow it and play on their platform.

So it's normal in my opinion. It's not againts and I also think that I don't see anything wrong with something like this. Toss has a gambling casino. It's only us gamblers who probably give it a bad meaning, after all we are not forced to play on their platform casino.

It's really normal for a casino to change ToS without any notice to players but the main point of discussion here is the change of ToS just to use it against the existing case of user. It's not ethical to change ToS just to have an advantage over the players since it's like bullying players without a chance to explain. The good news is, Only shady casino do this kind of trick while the rest of the reputable casino don't modify their ToS for the purpose of taking advantage on someone case or to prevent someone to withdraw profit.

davis196

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Every online service(including online casinos) must be required by the law to notify their customers when there are changes in the Terms of Service. The customers must agree to the changes of the ToS, if they don't, they are free to leave that particular platform and close their accounts. I agree that some shady online casinos are using their ToS as an excuse to scam their gamblers. This is terrible, but we can't find a way to stop those casinos from doing such things. Maybe the only way would be to spread awareness about which casinos act shady and against which casinos the gamblers have the most negative reviews. Perhaps decentralized gambling might become the new norm after several years and the gamblers would just gamble by using their own cold wallets, instead of sending coins to a centralized entity.

Mr. Magkaisa

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- If a casino wants to change their Tos, I think it's their right because they are the ones who oversee it. And only us gamblers have nothing to do but follow it and play on their platform.

So it's normal in my opinion. It's not againts and I also think that I don't see anything wrong with something like this. Toss has a gambling casino. It's only us gamblers who probably give it a bad meaning, after all we are not forced to play on their platform casino.

Negotiation

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Quote from: RILWAN on May 31, 2023, 06:06:53 PM

Some casinos have been known for scams and even though the player did not violate any of their rules, they still find a way to still take the deposits without any possible reason and if the players don't have strong evidence, to support their case they could go scot free but if there is evidence then the ops may have a case against the casino.

Even if you file a case against the casino, it takes a long time and it is very difficult to get the correct information from them. Due to the stiff competition for players, many legitimate casinos offer bonuses to both new and existing players. Reconsider when the deal looks very attractive scam casinos usually offer mouth watering bonuses, only asking the recipient player to make a deposit before receiving the prize. Worse, the wagering requirements may be disabled fraudulent casinos hide in their bonus schemes.

delfastTions

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Quote from: Mr. Magkaisa on May 31, 2023, 06:59:07 PM

- I haven't been able to play gambling for quite some time now, a few weeks, so every time I play, I don't check to see if anything has been changed in their rules. Because the last time I won crypto gambling, I didn't see any problem and I was able to withdraw the money I won which was not much.

Perhaps, other gamblers like me don't notice this, but of course it's still better to verify their clients so that they are also aware in case they have a withdrawal issue so they don't have to ask the their support.

In general, well-known casinos that have been operating on the market for a long time, in the case when you have passed the KYC procedure, which was introduced by almost all of these casinos, fulfilling the requirements of the law and the relevant requirements of local regulators, always notify players about serious changes in TOS.
This is usually done by sending email notifications. And sometimes the SMS is even duplicated if you have provided the casino with your mobile phone number. When playing in such casinos, of course, you can not watch TOS every time you visit their site. However, not all casinos do this. Those who are smaller and not as friendly to their customers may not send out information about significant TOS changes.
The main issue that is regulated and that is important for all players is, of course, the issue of withdrawing your funds, especially in the event of your big win. And everything related to such an operation. Amount limit, need for re-KYC, fee amounts, etc.

Mr. Magkaisa

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- I haven't been able to play gambling for quite some time now, a few weeks, so every time I play, I don't check to see if anything has been changed in their rules. Because the last time I won crypto gambling, I didn't see any problem and I was able to withdraw the money I won which was not much.

Perhaps, other gamblers like me don't notice this, but of course it's still better to verify their clients so that they are also aware in case they have a withdrawal issue so they don't have to ask the their support.

RILWAN

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Some casinos have been known for scams and even though the player did not violate any of their rules, they still find a way to still take the deposits without any possible reason and if the players don't have strong evidence, to support their case they could go scot free but if there is evidence then the ops may have a case against the casino.

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Quote from: dezoel on May 31, 2023, 04:20:31 PM

Quote from: PX-Z on May 30, 2023, 06:32:19 PM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Its a common law to notify its users whenever there's a chance of terms, because its like a contract between the users and business provider. If they never notify its users then the changes of the term cannot be execute or followed, and wont take effect.
Its users can file a case against the service whenever users are violated because of the changed terms so feel free to execute your rights.

Can a user actually file a case against a casino only because they didn't notify them for modifying the terms and conditions? I don't really thing that's a thing, because most of the casino platforms mention in their terms and conditions that they have all the rights to make changes, add more rules, or modify an existing one whenever they deem right, and in that way, a user doesn't have much of a say in it.

Yes, it's considered as a breach of contract. Any casino can change and modify its terms anytime they like, but they are oblige to let their users know the new terms or the new "contract", because you can disagree with it and leave the site if you don't agree the changes, like they require to agree the terms upon registration.

You can file a case if you have proof that you are not informed about the terms, the accused will be then defend your accusations. Because usually, reputed casino always informed its users by mail, it even has a banner on the site that there are changes on its terms. And they informed its users a head of time usually its weeks to seven days, because they are required to do it.

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Quote from: _act_ on May 31, 2023, 04:31:01 PM

Quote from: ultrloa on May 31, 2023, 06:09:50 AM

Especially when there's a big claims of prizes then suddenly they change the TOS to avoid or declared the winner as a cheater then for that they can be determine as scam immediately since they done that on purpose. For minimal situation will its still tolerable but at least they explain to their community when someone ask so that questions on mind by those people who doubt will be clear and people can get an answer regarding on the updates they've done.

Since when I have been gambling, I have not seen this before. I mean for a gambler to win and the gambling site changed their terms and conditions so that the gambler will not be favoured. I have not seen anything like that before. What I have noticed is that if the terms and conditions is altered, their customers will be notified.

But we should use a better gambling site, a trustworthy one that people around us are recommending. As long as you keep to the terms and conditions that you read, you have no problem.

We are not familiar with this kind of practice in any way and I have not seen a proven case of such where the casino suddenly change the rule just to favour themselves the first time I am hearing that is now in this thread where the ops mentioned his problem and since he did not back this up with any evidence it shows that there is little we can contribute to this situation and if all things being equal, we expect to see an update from the ops regarding this development if he has anything to further contribute or add to the already existing details that can help our discussion more.

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Quote from: dezoel on May 31, 2023, 04:20:31 PM

Quote from: PX-Z on May 30, 2023, 06:32:19 PM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Its a common law to notify its users whenever there's a chance of terms, because its like a contract between the users and business provider. If they never notify its users then the changes of the term cannot be execute or followed, and wont take effect.
Its users can file a case against the service whenever users are violated because of the changed terms so feel free to execute your rights.

Can a user actually file a case against a casino only because they didn't notify them for modifying the terms and conditions? I don't really thing that's a thing, because most of the casino platforms mention in their terms and conditions that they have all the rights to make changes, add more rules, or modify an existing one whenever they deem right, and in that way, a user doesn't have much of a say in it.

I understand that it is unethical for a platform to make a change in its terms and conditions that will directly affect its users or their activities and still don't notify them but I don't think that a user has much to do in such a case apart from leaving the platform for good.

You would rather just simply choose on leaving and dont mind about the money that had been spent out but if you do have the proper funding or financial then you could really push up and file a case against but

we know that it isnt something that good idea on doing so if we do look about the funds would be used then its not something worth for you to mind off and fight for.If we do see that there's really that sudden
change of their TOS then there's nothing we can do about it but to move on because if we do tend to fight for it then it would really be money consuming and you wouldnt really be sure
that you would really be winning the case. This is why its pointless.

In overall, having this kind of TOS changing thing is a shady act to be done and its not something a doing with a legit casino but hey we cant really be so sure that they wouldnt really be doing
these potential actions but this would be unlikely on speaking with those known and popular sites.

_act_

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Quote from: ultrloa on May 31, 2023, 06:09:50 AM

Especially when there's a big claims of prizes then suddenly they change the TOS to avoid or declared the winner as a cheater then for that they can be determine as scam immediately since they done that on purpose. For minimal situation will its still tolerable but at least they explain to their community when someone ask so that questions on mind by those people who doubt will be clear and people can get an answer regarding on the updates they've done.

Since when I have been gambling, I have not seen this before. I mean for a gambler to win and the gambling site changed their terms and conditions so that the gambler will not be favoured. I have not seen anything like that before. What I have noticed is that if the terms and conditions is altered, their customers will be notified.

But we should use a better gambling site, a trustworthy one that people around you are recommending. As long as you keep to the terms and conditions that you read, you have no problem.

dezoel

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Quote from: PX-Z on May 30, 2023, 06:32:19 PM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Its a common law to notify its users whenever there's a chance of terms, because its like a contract between the users and business provider. If they never notify its users then the changes of the term cannot be execute or followed, and wont take effect.
Its users can file a case against the service whenever users are violated because of the changed terms so feel free to execute your rights.

Can a user actually file a case against a casino only because they didn't notify them for modifying the terms and conditions? I don't really thing that's a thing, because most of the casino platforms mention in their terms and conditions that they have all the rights to make changes, add more rules, or modify an existing one whenever they deem right, and in that way, a user doesn't have much of a say in it.

I understand that it is unethical for a platform to make a change in its terms and conditions that will directly affect its users or their activities and still don't notify them but I don't think that a user has much to do in such a case apart from leaving the platform for good.

leonair

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Quote from: pawanjain on May 31, 2023, 11:27:34 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

I haven't heard of any case till date where the terms and conditions were changed without notice to their users and then any user was in trouble because of that.
Whenever there are any changes in any terms or conditions then their users are sent a notice through email of the same.
The email shares the changes or link to the new terms and conditions and this is done so that the users are aware of the new terms.
If any site is not following this approach then the site owners are at fault.

A good casino site always informs the users through email after changing their rules but it is our fault that we do not read the incoming emails regularly due to which none of the important emails are lost and that is why we face various problems. But even if those problems are due to our unconsciousness, we then blame others. All casino sites want to maintain their reputation and make a real and big business. So they are very careful in these cases.

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

It shouldn't be something we consider to be normal cause it's really not normally at all that a gambling site or any site at all would make changes to their ToS and wouldn't see the need to bring such changes to the awareness of their users. Such could be referred to as fraudulent act cause it's deceptive of the user's intelligence.

Only a few gambling sites understands so well the importance of reputation and upholds it while others flagrantly behave as they which in their race to make profit at all cost. No wonder so many only gambling sites are shutting down cause their repute has been trampled on by their unethical ways of doing business that have driven away both old and new users.

Quote

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

I haven't had such case with any of the gambling sites am currently using, but it would be helpful if other gamblers bring to the notice of the public about such sites for the sake of awareness.

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

I haven't heard of any case till date where the terms and conditions were changed without notice to their users and then any user was in trouble because of that.
Whenever there are any changes in any terms or conditions then their users are sent a notice through email of the same.
The email shares the changes or link to the new terms and conditions and this is done so that the users are aware of the new terms.
If any site is not following this approach then the site owners are at fault.

LDL

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

In case of change of rules and regulations in casino or gambling sites, users should be notified in advance by notification or pin message. I faced into a similar condition a long time ago where I faced quite a lot of trouble while withdrawing. They changed withdrawal terms and conditions but did not give any notification so I resolved the issue by contacting live support. Since then I do not take any action without understanding the terms and conditions of any gambling or casino site.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: PX-Z on May 30, 2023, 06:32:19 PM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Its a common law to notify its users whenever there's a chance of terms, because its like a contract between the users and business provider. If they never notify its users then the changes of the term cannot be execute or followed, and wont take effect.
Its users can file a case against the service whenever users are violated because of the changed terms so feel free to execute your rights.

But when the casino doesn't notify about changes in the rules and many users complain, the casino usually ignores it. It might even be possible to block or close a gambling account for someone complaining about a change in the rules. And maybe it's already happened in the casinos out there but no one has managed to get what they should. If this happens to us, we should ask the casino why they didn't inform their users. It's a form of disguised fraud so users feel the casino has deceived them. But let's hope that doesn't happen to the casinos in this forum because it can lose our trust in the casino.

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

They are not notifying users, but those Terms of Service (TOS) should apply to every gambler, not just certain individuals, in order to prevent them from being restricted from withdrawing money. If they are a legitimate gambling site, they would not create a TOS that is illegal. Therefore, any changes to the TOS should be considered legal. If we encounter issues due to the TOS, it is highly likely that what we are doing is not legal or ethical.

ultrloa

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Quote from: xSkylarx on May 30, 2023, 10:22:23 PM

Quote from: _act_ on May 30, 2023, 07:28:25 AM

Quote from: xSkylarx on May 29, 2023, 04:34:24 AM

That casino is not normal because usually if you are existing users they will send it to you via email the new ToS, or when you log back in to the casino a new ToS will be displayed and you will need to again agree to it. I am not sure what casino this is, but it is better to stay away from it. Also, also it is great to have a copy of the ToS every time you venture to another casino so that you have proof before and have a strong case with your problem.

Some people do overlook ToS, thinking they got no problem with it. What I have noticed on the websites that I have used and that I am using is that if they make amendments to their terms and conditions, they will notify users, and in a way they will put the link that you can click on that will direct the user to the terms and conditions which has been updated. It is possible that some people will not read it or do not noticed the email sent.

That is really the problem of the gambler , but OP I think he reads it that is why he noticed it but again it is very fishy to the casino that it ain't telling the gamblers that they changed their ToS and also if there are amendments it means that the gamblers needed to agree again ,so they should read it whats new because it became voided the ToS, so still its either the gamblers fault or the casino one but with kind of issues it is better to stay away if you feel cheated in this kind of instances as for sure you wont win a dispute between them

Especially when there's a big claims of prizes then suddenly they change the TOS to avoid or declared the winner as a cheater then for that they can be determine as scam immediately since they done that on purpose. For minimal situation will its still tolerable but at least they explain to their community when someone ask so that questions on mind by those people who doubt will be clear and people can get an answer regarding on the updates they've done.

xSkylarx

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Quote from: _act_ on May 30, 2023, 07:28:25 AM

Quote from: xSkylarx on May 29, 2023, 04:34:24 AM

That casino is not normal because usually if you are existing users they will send it to you via email the new ToS, or when you log back in to the casino a new ToS will be displayed and you will need to again agree to it. I am not sure what casino this is, but it is better to stay away from it. Also, also it is great to have a copy of the ToS every time you venture to another casino so that you have proof before and have a strong case with your problem.

Some people do overlook ToS, thinking they got no problem with it. What I have noticed on the websites that I have used and that I am using is that if they make amendments to their terms and conditions, they will notify users, and in a way they will put the link that you can click on that will direct the user to the terms and conditions which has been updated. It is possible that some people will not read it or do not noticed the email sent.

That is really the problem of the gambler , but OP I think he reads it that is why he noticed it but again it is very fishy to the casino that it ain't telling the gamblers that they changed their ToS and also if there are amendments it means that the gamblers needed to agree again ,so they should read it whats new because it became voided the ToS, so still its either the gamblers fault or the casino one but with kind of issues it is better to stay away if you feel cheated in this kind of instances as for sure you wont win a dispute between them

Topic: Using ToS against users normal? - page 18. (Read 2955 times)