Using ToS against users normal? - page 19.

PX-Z

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Its a common law to notify its users whenever there's a chance of terms, because its like a contract between the users and business provider. If they never notify its users then the changes of the term cannot be execute or followed, and wont take effect.
Its users can file a case against the service whenever users are violated because of the changed terms so feel free to execute your rights.

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Quote from: danadc on May 30, 2023, 05:39:19 PM

Quote from: macson on May 30, 2023, 08:34:40 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

changing the TOS is an act of fraud. fortunately, bad events such as manipulation by gambling sites on their TOS have never happened to me, so far i have been very careful in choosing the gambling site that i will use, i only play on gambling sites that have a good reputation and only have a few complaints. underestimating the TOS will only make a gambler lose money, remain critical and careful about the gambling sites that you will play or are currently playing.

i always avoid playing on new gambling sites that are only trying to attract more of their customers from the bonuses or events they offer because usually most of them will only end up cheating customers.

I did not know that changing the TOS was so bad, I thought that since they were a company they did not need to notify those things, I see it as something very much for the company without the need for the approval of any of the clients, of course if it is so I do not see it why it is approved, if things are done differently, for example that they change them and that they are going to harm the game directly with the players if it would be a violation, for example, that at the moment they withdraw their money they are charged a a much higher fee, that an additional charge is made for each game, in addition to doing things that harm the players with other types of things if it would be something illegal.

For some minimal changes which it wouldnt really be that significant or could affect out their users then it would really be just that fine that they wouldnt really be making out those announcement but if this is something which a huge alteration then it is really just that fair and right for them to tell about their users or the public about such change rather than on unfairly be making up some alterations just because
they are really not tending on paying up someone or having those who do hit up big. This is actually a scammy behavior or something do talks about a site which cant really be trusted.
If there are moments which things turns out to be proven out that they are really have changed their TOS for such manner or simply the public wasnt aware then its better to leave out this platform and look for another one. You cant really ensure out the fairness of this platform plus there are lots of good choices in the market which you could choose from.

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Quote from: macson on May 30, 2023, 08:34:40 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

changing the TOS is an act of fraud. fortunately, bad events such as manipulation by gambling sites on their TOS have never happened to me, so far i have been very careful in choosing the gambling site that i will use, i only play on gambling sites that have a good reputation and only have a few complaints. underestimating the TOS will only make a gambler lose money, remain critical and careful about the gambling sites that you will play or are currently playing.

i always avoid playing on new gambling sites that are only trying to attract more of their customers from the bonuses or events they offer because usually most of them will only end up cheating customers.

I did not know that changing the TOS was so bad, I thought that since they were a company they did not need to notify those things, I see it as something very much for the company without the need for the approval of any of the clients, of course if it is so I do not see it why it is approved, if things are done differently, for example that they change them and that they are going to harm the game directly with the players if it would be a violation, for example, that at the moment they withdraw their money they are charged a a much higher fee, that an additional charge is made for each game, in addition to doing things that harm the players with other types of things if it would be something illegal.

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Quote from: Negotiation on May 30, 2023, 08:15:23 AM

Many users find it normal to use the ToS, but before joining the casino, the sites should be thoroughly analyzed. Casinos can help players beat the living crap out of house edge but only if used well. Unfortunately, most players don't read the terms and conditions to learn the basic rules that guide these rewards. So don't be like them and follow the right strategies to enjoy a successful campaign before you place a bet, it is important to take a look at the odds. If the conditions are advanced later the risk will be less and everything can be mastered properly.

You are sure right, please don't ask me how arrived at this estimation but, to be honest, over 90 percent of gambler and general internet users don't read terms of service of what ever platform they are joining, this is not something peculiar to gambling casino alone , and like a proverb say that people perish because they lack knowledge, some casinos, most especially the not so genuine ones will continue to find ways of manipulating their terms of service suit themselves and use against the players..
If only we can learn to make out some time to read and understand the terms of service before engaging with the casino, I personally believe that most of the complaining about casinos here and there will reduce, because gamblers will easily know which casino to avoid and which to play on.

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Quote from: Wexnident on May 26, 2023, 12:49:49 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

That's not a casino, that's a scam. Legitimate casinos would notify users of the changes in their ToS possibly weeks, maybe even months before they implement them. It's just something natural. If a casino didn't do so and updated them without notifying their users, I'd just leave since they've fully committed to scamming at least one person with that change.

Afaik there has been some people who were victims, I recall some of them provided proofs while others claimed to be victims but sadly no proof was shown. It is hard though since in the first place, who takes a copy of the ToS of a casino? I certainly don't.

No it's not automatically called as a scam but this act is only normal. A company can truly change their terms as much as they can even without notifying their users but some casinos already give a warning about it so other users are also aware of that possibility but there might be some casinos who don't do that. This why some users are angry about them in case they can get affected by the change.

The solution is just stop playing there and make it a habit to check their terms next time to see if they have a rule about changing terms automatically. We don't usually take a copy of the TOS because it's a wall of text but maybe we will now do it, only to have an evidence in case the issue occurred later on.

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Quote from: macson on May 30, 2023, 08:34:40 AM

changing the TOS is an act of fraud. fortunately, bad events such as manipulation by gambling sites on their TOS have never happened to me, so far i have been very careful in choosing the gambling site that i will use, i only play on gambling sites that have a good reputation and only have a few complaints. underestimating the TOS will only make a gambler lose money, remain critical and careful about the gambling sites that you will play or are currently playing.

i always avoid playing on new gambling sites that are only trying to attract more of their customers from the bonuses or events they offer because usually most of them will only end up cheating customers.

Big gambling platform sites will not do that TOS changes, they know the rules maybe because they also have a license so you will be notified every time there is a change by the TOS, I have played on a big gambling platform and there are new terms that I have to agree to, I get notifications in the account me to agree to that.

If you play in a small casino or one that is still relatively new, it will be easy for them to make rules as they like so without the users knowing they change the TOS and then steal money from the user as if the user is wrong in this case, I think it's important to do research before playing gambling because big and reputable gambling platform sites are more recommended and also before playing always read their TOS.

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Changing terms and conditions without notifying customers is commonplace in many areas, not only in gambling. It is impossible to call this the norm and I think it is completely wrong. If there is an agreement between the online gambling website and the player, then must adhere to this agreement. I believe that if the website changes the rules unilaterally, then the player has the right to either agree to the new conditions or not. But it almost always happens that online casinos don't give the right to choose and impose conditions without the consent of the player.

What can be done here? Just stop using the services of unscrupulous online gambling websites and look for an alternative.

Personally, nothing like this happened to me with gambling websites due to my little experience in this area, but I received such a surprise from the Internet provider, that's for sure.

There are always other options. If you don't like something, you can always find another service provider, be it an Internet service provider or an online casino.

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

changing the TOS is an act of fraud. fortunately, bad events such as manipulation by gambling sites on their TOS have never happened to me, so far i have been very careful in choosing the gambling site that i will use, i only play on gambling sites that have a good reputation and only have a few complaints. underestimating the TOS will only make a gambler lose money, remain critical and careful about the gambling sites that you will play or are currently playing.

i always avoid playing on new gambling sites that are only trying to attract more of their customers from the bonuses or events they offer because usually most of them will only end up cheating customers.

Negotiation

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Many users find it normal to use the ToS, but before joining the casino, the sites should be thoroughly analyzed. Casinos can help players beat the living crap out of house edge but only if used well. Unfortunately, most players don't read the terms and conditions to learn the basic rules that guide these rewards. So don't be like them and follow the right strategies to enjoy a successful campaign before you place a bet, it is important to take a look at the odds. If the conditions are advanced later the risk will be less and everything can be mastered properly.

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It's the responsibility of the casino to make sure their users are aware of the current updates in their terms and conditions, such as their Faqs or even in their announcement board, to make sure there's no possible conflict in the future; we know that the casino taking a step forward only with the players for one time checking of the ToS so the player ignores now how does it take and just of as is. For the player seems they still need to have responsible, too, if there's a chance to make sure there's an awareness about the updates.

In that case at the end once you have the proper proof you can prevent those casino wins the case. This thing screenshot is a must.

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Quote from: _act_ on May 30, 2023, 07:28:25 AM

Some people do overlook ToS, thinking they got no problem with it. What I have noticed on the websites that I have used and that I am using is that if they make amendments to their terms and conditions, they will notify users, and in a way they will put the link that you can click on that will direct the user to the terms and conditions which has been updated. It is possible that some people will not read it or do not notice the email sent.

Yeah, a lot of the issues that have been raised lately border around the negligence of the terms and conditions and the willingness of the player to take the time to read through the terms of service of most casinos, but then one needs to take into account the fact that some details need to be properly studied and understood so that the player can properly apply such terms to themselves while their use the casino.

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Quote from: _act_ on May 30, 2023, 07:28:25 AM

Quote from: xSkylarx on May 29, 2023, 04:34:24 AM

~~~

I think it's bad if the services notify about changes in the user agreement only via email. It is necessary that they are not limited to this and a window appears when visiting the site. With an offer to accept or reject it. Because many emails are sent to spam, and so you can miss the key points of changes on the part of the gambling service.
And even if they do not get into spam, you can postpone such letters for later, and not remember about it.

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Quote from: xSkylarx on May 29, 2023, 04:34:24 AM

That casino is not normal because usually if you are existing users they will send it to you via email the new ToS, or when you log back in to the casino a new ToS will be displayed and you will need to again agree to it. I am not sure what casino this is, but it is better to stay away from it. Also, also it is great to have a copy of the ToS every time you venture to another casino so that you have proof before and have a strong case with your problem.

Some people do overlook ToS, thinking they got no problem with it. What I have noticed on the websites that I have used and that I am using is that if they make amendments to their terms and conditions, they will notify users, and in a way they will put the link that you can click on that will direct the user to the terms and conditions which has been updated. It is possible that some people will not read it or do not noticed the email sent.

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

-snip-
Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

I've never heard of this problem before and I don't think it ever happens to a reputable casino. For significant changes to the terms that the casino has the potential to encounter with loud protests or endless complaints, the casino will notify all places where users can find them immediately.

They may put disclaimers at risk regarding this matter, but they also have integrity that must be maintained.

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Quote from: Doan9269 on May 30, 2023, 05:54:46 AM

Quote from: coinerer on May 29, 2023, 10:43:32 PM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Gambling sites can change any of their rules with their official team but after the change they must inform all users through email or site notification to make everyone aware of the new rules. But gambling sites will be held responsible if they hide it after changing their rules and users face problems unknowingly. And for these activities their reputation will be damaged and they will lose many gamblers. and I don't think any reputable casino site would do such a thing.

They have the right of course to make any changes but some of them would acted well and inform their gamblers on such changes while some gambling platforms will not inform anyone, this is why we havebto kmow the kind of gambling casino we are dealing with if reliable or not, also visit their ToS page occasionally to check if things have been ammeded or not, so this also depends on the operators and developers of such gambling platform, some knows what they are doing while others don't even care about any outcome received on the gambler's end, such casinos lack good organizations and i see no reason why they keep their gamblers KYC informations when they wouldn't make use of them in times like this.

There is no alternative to a reputable casino for stress-free gambling and keeping personal information safe. But one of our problems is our greed for high benefits. and because of this we often face dangers and various problems. But as a conscious gambler we need to be careful in all our aspects. Because if the core team changes the rules of the site and because of that we suddenly have to face a problem, then they don't care if we blame them ourselves. So it is foolish to be completely dependent on a site that they will notify us and we will always be suspicious. therefore, there is a possibility of financial risk, so we must always be on our guard

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 29, 2023, 03:18:09 AM

If any one casino already have it in their terms and conditions that they can modify their ToS any time, that's a red flag and not safe to use, I will run away from such an online gambling platform because they can tramp on their users easily.

A online gambling platform that cares about their business and that of their customers must send out a notification via email address to all their users about the change of ToS and request them to go through the updates and changes before they start gambling starting from so and so date.

Because some users or customers might not like the new adjustments and they should be free to withdraw their funds and stop using the platform if they don't like the new rules of the platform.

If they can't do this, they can't be trusted.

Well, the decision depends on us if we want to stick with a casino or not after reading their terms and conditions, because we can't really object against their actions and even if we do, that wouldn't really make a difference for them and they will still do whatever they want. That is basically the reason why every gamblers should first read the terms and conditions before using a platform.

A trusted and reputable casino that cares about their reputation more than anything would obviously make some change but they would notify their users beforehand or at least after the changes have been made.

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Quote from: Porfirii on May 29, 2023, 04:36:20 AM

Quote from: avp2306 on May 29, 2023, 04:03:53 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 29, 2023, 03:18:09 AM

If any one casino already have it in their terms and conditions that they can modify their ToS any time, that's a red flag and not safe to use, I will run away from such an online gambling platform because they can tramp on their users easily.

Its big red flag since you can use that if someone wants to withdraw a huge money on their platform and tell that the user violate some rules written on their updated TOS. If we can see a casino doing this much better if we could just avoid them since for sure they are shady and will not deliver good experience to their gamblers.

I guess there are incident like this happen so we also need to be vigilant if this happened on the casino where we currently playing.

In the last years I have witnessed a few cases where the ToS were changed without prior notice. In these cases, the terms and conditions stated that the casino could change the rules at any time without the need to notify users.

I have seen that other casinos set a 15 days period from the decision making to the implementation of the new rules, although I have reasonable doubts and I don't think that all users will check them twice a month for changes.

That is true, most users will not check ToS that often if ever. But casinos only take advantage of regulation rules that allow them to be too much flexible and change their terms because of their own benefit not considering too much their customers. But it's take it or leave it situation, it's upon every one of us to make necessary background checks and choose carefully the casinos we want to spend our money.

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Before we play on a casino it's important to read their ToS to know their rules and to prevent violating any of it. Well, the casino has the right to change their rules if necessary. However if they changed any of their rules, they need to notify their players to become aware of these changes. So the gambler can decide if they want to continue playing or switch to other casino because he/she is not comfortable with the added rules.

If the casino use these changes to defraud their players without notifying them after the changes are made then clearly it's not fair. I would be discourage to play on the particular casino if such issue happened.

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Quote from: coinerer on May 29, 2023, 10:43:32 PM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Gambling sites can change any of their rules with their official team but after the change they must inform all users through email or site notification to make everyone aware of the new rules. But gambling sites will be held responsible if they hide it after changing their rules and users face problems unknowingly. And for these activities their reputation will be damaged and they will lose many gamblers. and I don't think any reputable casino site would do such a thing.

They have the right of course to make any changes but some of them would acted well and inform their gamblers on such changes while some gambling platforms will not inform anyone, this is why we havebto kmow the kind of gambling casino we are dealing with if reliable or not, also visit their ToS page occasionally to check if things have been ammeded or not, so this also depends on the operators and developers of such gambling platform, some knows what they are doing while others don't even care about any outcome received on the gambler's end, such casinos lack good organizations and i see no reason why they keep their gamblers KYC informations when they wouldn't make use of them in times like this.

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Quote from: avp2306 on May 30, 2023, 01:51:33 AM

Quote from: Porfirii on May 29, 2023, 04:36:20 AM

Quote from: avp2306 on May 29, 2023, 04:03:53 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 29, 2023, 03:18:09 AM

<...>

In the last years I have witnessed a few cases where the ToS were changed without prior notice. In these cases, the terms and conditions stated that the casino could change the rules at any time without the need to notify users.

I have seen that other casinos set a 15 days period from the decision making to the implementation of the new rules, although I have reasonable doubts and I don't think that all users will check them twice a month for changes.

Since this is happening where changes sometimes made and casino didn't notify their user then its good to check if there's updated version of their TOS so that we can see if there's added restriction so that we can avoid it.

But for me if I know the casino I usually play changes the their TOS without any reason and if there's legitimate user get affected on their updates I will have doubt to come back at their site and maybe I will also warn my friends not to play on that casino due to that reason.

You are right that it is good to periodically check if the TOS were updated, but almost nobody is willing to make such an effort to be honest.

About your doubts to come back and about warning your friends, I think that the intention of the casino when changing the terms is important: if they actively tried to notify (social media, email, banner in their site...) sufficiently in advance can't compare to treacherously changing a few words to catch users off guard, which I think is what the OP is denouncing.

Topic: Using ToS against users normal? - page 19. (Read 2955 times)