Topic: What's wrong with Vod, and Hhampuz - page 8. (Read 4587 times)

No. I have never made a baseless claim. Further the baseless claims I am referring to was giving credibility to the threat of harm that would be done if an extortion payment was not paid.

I am in complete agreement on that front. Merit sending should not warrant red trust, especially when it is used in a "legitimate" way, whether you agree with the post or otherwise. My complaint has never been about the people sending merit (although I did feel your comparison was disingenuous). My complaint is directly at the DOX, and all of my criticisms thus far have been aimed at that.

I think giving negative trust feedback to those that merited the Dox would be a mistake. I don't think that giving Vod negative trust would be abusive or out of bounds.

You originally said it was "just merit to a post you didn't like", but the "post you didn't like" isn't just an opinion you disagree with, it is an action that increases the threat-level in the everyday life of whoever lives at the address that was released. To be clear though, you're saying what I blew out of proportion was stating that there is potential risk associated with releasing the address of an individual and claiming there is millions of dollars in their possession?


Not the concern. The concern is a desperate 20-something that has nothing to live for and just needs a little guidance to do something evil.

When someone realizes there has been wrong done, but it was over a few hours ago so straw-man it and who cares:



Sounds like encouragement here :

This thread should be locked. The topic was regarding Vod and Hhampuz and surprisingly it has turned into the same circlejerk every topic becomes. Move all the whining to an existing Reputations thread.


Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to accuse other people of making baseless claims?

I never said or implied that. All I said - it's an opinion. Makes zero difference to me if it's negative, positive, wordy, +1, don't care. Opinions expressed on this forum should not be punished with red trust.


You also said this (about merit):


Let's untangle merit from this is all I'm asking. It's not an encouragement, it doesn't send SWAT to Og's house, let it go.

I'm not a merit source .

Exactly why you correctly noted the merit score metric is meaningless and totally inappropriate to base a TRUST system upon it.
The vast majority of merit given out by this bunch to each other is in support of their shared agenda and protection of their gang members. Pull up ALL of their past meriting of each other and start going through it all. This comment by suchmoon is deceptive and intentionally misleading.

Lauda is down playing the danger VOD has put OGnasty AND the board at.  

1. People may have not been looking at OGnasty and been privy to the information vod has been shouting about for ages. (increased incentive)
2. People may not have known where to look for his doxx or had the incentive before

Now however,

1. More attention to OG over all of this and more incentive to be interested in him and his location
2. Increased awareness of his location
3. New attention from authorities (that may confiscate and find reason to hold for years until it is sorted out)


So increased awareness and widespread incentive, easy details of location, endangerment to OG physically, endangerment of board funds.

This is clearly increasing the probability of several negative implications of OGnasty and the entire board.

If vod does not get a red tag for this then NO PERSON DOXXING OTHERS should get a red tag. There is NO proof OG scammed or did anything wrong at all.

Vod gives red tags if you tell him he needs to present evidence before making accusations against OG and delete his 3rd "SAME" accusation ? but he does not deserve it for potentially being responsible for OG  being hurt or robbed or the BOARDS money being stolen.

What a joke of a system we have here with the biggest joke being the scammers and liars on DT getting to give out red trust to other honest members FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY LIKE lol.

This clearly demonstrates the inner gang are untouchable now. This board is screwed.

This is the problem with granting DT members "special treatment" with scamming, extorting, doxxing, etc etc. Now everyone has a right to say they can NOT have a red tag for doing the same thing or the entire system is unfair and corrupt, and they would be correct. Allowing a 2 tier system is pure corruption and sure failure of this system.

You need clear, fair rules that ALL members have to stick to or they ALL get the same punishment. Anything else will tear the board apart.

What is wrong with VOD and Hhampuz is clear. They think double standards are fine, so are corrupt if not scammers themselves. Perhaps not worth red trust under the red trust for Scammers ONLY rule but should be blacklisted from DT and given a warning for that. Removed from merit source for sure. This is worse than political meriting (which everyone does anyway).

TG - these are not valued members (maybe to each other) these are a bunch on non achieving double standards scum and some are observable liars and scammers among other things. Don't be sorry, be glad you took a stand. It is there in history now.

Your reasons for red trust are far more admirable and noble than theirs in many cases. Watch your back though now.

Suchmoon is their front man it is not as reckless as the inner gang with trust abuse but will be found supporting lauda, vod , tman, owl, any of those just the same as Huge Black Woman aka the pharmacist, fox pup. All cycling merits to each other all including each other on DT all excluding similar members. There is no decentralization here, it is collusion and gang mentality with no single point of accountability.

owlcatz is a conspirator to an extortion scam. Owlcatz getting doxed will hopefully lead to him being held accountable in one way or another via the legal system for his crimes. It should also serve as a warning to others who are considering participating in an extortion scam. Owlcatz getting dox'ed was entirely appropriate.

This is very similar to part of the basis for extorting zeroaxl. There were many baseless claims against zeroaxl, but one of them was that he was not paying his taxes appropriately based on an old post in which zeroaxl asked a tax related question.   

I generally don't read through reputation threads, which I've made clear several times. I can't talk about something I have never even heard of. I am against every instance of DOXing that I have ever come across. I don't think it matters if anyone actually has 500 BTC under their mattress or not, if you say they have it someone will believe you and maybe someone that believes you is willing to cross that threshold into violence based on the potential payout or simply because they have a vendetta.


That would be you using your words to express your opinion. Similar to how you use merit, except you are limited in your expression if you choose to do so with merit, because it only goes one way (up/positive). "The rank up-thing" was the entire purpose of implementing the merit system. It literally effects nothing other than user-rank, so if you are using merit without that in mind then you are operating with an abstract concept of the merit system that almost nobody else would share.

You can't say "I think this is a bad post" with merit. Words are more variable than merit and comparing them is a painful exercise.

We're not splitting hairs.. That seems to be what you're doing, while you pretend like there can be a connotation to merit that is anything but positive. Sending a merit to another user is interacting with their post in a positive manner. You're trying to pretend like merit is neutral, but that's not even close to the case. Words can be used to express an opinion that is negative, positive, neutral or any other descriptor you can fit in there. Receiving merit cannot be seen as a negative and you cannot convince me that sending merit is used negatively.



The only claim that I've even made is: pointing at a house and saying "there's a lot of money in there" is endangering the people in that house. What have I blown out of proportion?
I haven't encouraged those that merited the DOX to be given negative reputation, in fact I disagree with that approach personally, although I do think it would be fair for Vod to receive negative reputation based on being the Doxer. I'm confused how that negative reputation would be seen as "trust abuse", "merit censorship" or whatever else it is being claimed to be.

The question here now becomes what have the long term DT1 members been doing about this rampant doxxing? Has there not been a large enough stance taken on it to prevent future doxxing? Obviously not with all these examples you and Lauda are bringing up.

My record is 1-0 currently. I was only DT1 for a week, but I seen something wrong and I decided to do something about it. In the end I achieved what I set out to do and the post was deleted. If I'm never DT again I wouldn't care, in my very short time I have done more to set a precedent against doxxing than any of you have in the long time you've held your position. It's just unfortunate some highly valued members decided merit for doxx was an okay thing to do.

Quicksy doxing owlcatz as an example. Every piece of shit scammer doxing Vod for any reason or no reason at all. Not a peep from any of you outraged citizens. Because we all think that Vod doesn't keep 500 BTC under his mattress, is that what it is?


Ok, now we're splitting hairs - if I say "I think this is a good post" - is that my opinion or my words based on my opinion? Makes no difference to me. The rank-up thing is a nice bonus but doesn't have to enter the decision process of the merit sender. Agreeing or disagreeing with the recipient is irrelevant.

There is a bit more to the scale than just "CONDEMN" and "ENCOURAGE". I disagree with the dox. I wouldn't have merited that post. But I don't think those who merited that post deserve red trust and I'm disappointed in teeGUMES' (and yours) continuing mental gymnastics trying to blow this out of proportion. I refuse to start sweating for the 15k merits I sent so that someone somewhere could find one of them objectionable and decide to red trust me for that.

It's irrelevant that Vod came to his senses after the fact.    We know thousands of people saw that post and likely dozens of people copied or saved that information.   Deleting his post did not undo what was done.  He literally risked lives by posting an address and basically said "hey, there's 500 BTC at this location".   It's an insanely dangerous precedent to set.  What happens when an innocent person or even a child is hurt due to a home invasion because of a post like this?  Nearly 3.5M USD is a lot of incentive for a bad person to attempt something terrible.

There was no reason for it, as you already stated.  Ognasty isn't running for president as far as I know so his taxes should be no one's business but OG and the IRS.   The feigned outrage is comical.   No one cares about OG's taxes, they just want to hurt ognasty.

The mental gymnastics that are performed on this forum daily are impressive. What makes the Dox unacceptable and unnecessary is because it endangers the people involved.
So then the difficulty of acquiring the information is our standard? That sounds as half-baked as meriting solely based on effort.


More of this beat-around-the-bush game-play. I wasn't around when the situation with Hhampuz occurred. If you think that absence is equivalent to hypocrisy or support, then we've got nothing to talk about. Assuming you're talking about me, I'd love for you to back up your claims that I am acting hypocritically. I wouldn't support Hhampuz being DOX'd either.

I like the use of qualifiers, "fully doxxed", as opposed to what?
When you share private information about somebody and proclaim that they are hoarding valuables you are endangering them.



Side-Note: It's funny to me that one moment you're saying it's okay to merit posts based on effort, and then in the next breathe you are talking about how it's acceptable to post the information because it required nearly no effort. Doubly funny when you're talking about the same post for both.


I'd be willing to bet that you are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime after your dox, and financial information has been posted publicly when comparing it to before the information was released. Which is my point, there is an increase in danger for no justifiable reason.


I don't even know what you're talking about, we're not all as involved, but I happily would apply the same standards to anybody DOXing anyone for any purpose other than it is necessary for the forwarding of a proper investigation.


Merit is not an opinion. You can give merit out based on your opinion, but it is not in itself an opinion. Merit is a +1 that enables users to rank-up, which would mean it is an incentive for whatever they have posted to earn that merit. I guess when you give a dog a treat, you're not necessarily agreeing with their opinion, but you are encouraging them to do whatever they think they did to earn that treat. The dog wants their next snack, like a newbie wants their rank-up.

Meriting definitely doesn't mean that you condemn the post. The post should have been universally condemned, and any defense for this kind of behavior is the problem right now.

Point?

There is no "you guys", if you believe otherwise you are delusional. Most people that did speak out now are just disgusting hypocrites. I don't see your negative on the person who doxxed him, surprise surprise.

---

Hypocrite.

Hooo boy look at how bad that looks. Hhampuz went through a similar full doxx but thinks meritting someone elses doxx is the correct order of action.
Everyone here is so scared to speak out with an unpopular opinion because you few spin it to try and make them look badly or unfit for DT.
It's not working this time. You guys are finally showing your true intentions. Form an echo chamber, remain in power.

The people who are whining about users getting endangered are the very same people that kept quiet when Hhampuz was fully doxxed. Oh the hypocrisy. What goes around comes around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Every single DT1 member sat idly by while someone was publicly doxxed over a ridiculous arguement that escalated out of control. More action happened when hhampuz's trust rating turned into orange ???s. I think it's time you get your priorities in order. You guys are a laughing stock.

It's not tag-worthy, and I don't think Theymos wants negative trust being handed out for differing opinions, and certainly not for merits you don't think should have been given based on the opinion in the post that was merited.  That's bullshit.

Vod and Hhampuz are both well-respected members of bitcointalk and don't deserve a tag for this drama--especially not Hhampuz, who isn't even directly involved with it anyway.  These new DT members really need to learn feedback etiquette, and learn it quickly if they expect to stay on DT for long.

Good.  And yeah, there was no reason for this side drama to happen at all.

I get where you're coming from, but I don't think anybody's life was endangered because of this.  I don't know what the crime statistics are for assaults/murders/robberies/whatever post-internet doxxing, but I'm guessing those things happen very rarely.  Some of the wealthiest people in the world have at least their addresses public, so if anyone wanted to rob or kill them, they'd be easy enough to find--but it doesn't happen a lot.  I don't think OgNasty's dox being made public is going to provoke anyone to do anything stupid (I assume that's what we're talking about here). 

Well Hhampuz rating is back to normal now. Too bad that things had to escalate this way. Seems that all this could have been avoided had all the tagged parties talked to each other before. Decisions made when someone is angry and not thinking with a clear mind can create a lot of issues.

Make sure to apply the same high standards when Og's lapdog doxes random people for spurious reasons, even outside of Investigations.

Merit is not an encouragement or anything of the sort. It's an opinion at most, and not necessarily an opinion agreeing with the post being merited. Let's calm down with the exaggerations.

Don't spew exaggarated bullshit. It takes about 25 seconds for decent tech-savy person to find OgNasty and his plot. The DOXX was unecessarary, but nobody has been endangered as the information is out there and easy to find. The rest of your emotional response is uninteresting.

This is correct, I'm sure thermos can confirm.