Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 11. (Read 901357 times)

^^^ That's too bad for you.

I was raised Christian, and the first time I heard about death, I asked my parents what it meant. They explained it to me. And then they explained that Jesus (the Christ) takes people to Heaven if they believe in Him.

I feel sad for you that you never had anyone explain it to you.

I was born and raised into Christianity, I don't know what religion really was until I go to high school where we have to learn about different religions and it was then I know there are other religion aside Christian. So you being and Atheist that don't believe in religion is all about believes and were one grow up really tell a lot on you understanding of things.

^^^ There are both, free will and lack of it.

For example, when you work for a company, your boss often tells you to do something. Some things he dictates. But others he allows you to use your own judgment on. The results work out best when there is a little of each, free will and controlled direction.

God works similarly in the universe, but much more foundationally. He allows us partial free will so that we are free. But because we are not strong enough to actuate anything that we free-will decide, God does the actuating for us. When He does it, He does it according to His goals and the physics of the universe.

Cause & Effect in the universe makes it look like we ultimately don't have free will. But we don't have enough science to factually claim that we have free will or not. So, we need to follow the two examples available:
1. Apparent free will shows that the free-will idea is present;
2. The Bible shows us how we have free will, with God Almighty guiding it.

Conscious control of things is very limited. Even science has shown that the subconscious is far greater than the conscious.

Just stop this 'free will' nonsense, aka. excuse why God fucked up his 'perfect' plan.

Our world can be deterministic or non-deterministic.  There is no other choice.

If the world is deterministic, you have no control over what you are going to do next.  Your thoughts are driven by all the cause and effects that created thoughts in your brain. The 'choices' your brain produces are the product of C&E your brain experienced before it produced the said 'choices'.  The very process of 'choosing the right option' is determined by your previous experiences and the state of your brain.

If the world is non-deterministic, there is some random process that you have no control over it.  The thoughts produced by your brain are the result of C&E and some random process over which you have no control.  By definition, the 'choices' your brain produces are not really yours but are determined by some random process inside or outside of your brain and the current state of your brain.

Our brain development is a cumulative process during which you have no control over this process.  You did not know you were you until you were probably 2-3 years old.

Can you consciously control what happens in your dreams?  
Can you consciously control your liver function?

Can you consciously choose to be gay?  Try it, let us know how it goes.

Our brains are complex automatons capable of creating illusions, including the 'free will' and "me" illusion.

^^^ You are mixed up regarding this, similar to how you are mixed up about evolution and its theory. Evolution theory exists, but the form of evolution proposed by evolution theory doesn't.

How does this apply to gays or transsexuals? God doesn't make gays or transsexuals. God makes people. The idea that God makes gays and transsexuals is only an idea. It is the people, themselves, who turn themselves into gays or transsexuals at times, not God.

I wonder why god would create gays or transsexuals in the first place, seems like something so unnecessary and it's not even related to free will.

At least there is something we agree on.  I too oppose big government, but c'mon discrimination laws is not the best way to reduce government.

I think you are against this particular group of people because of peer pressure from other Christians.  You know that harming people is wrong, but you go with the flow and support this discrimination anyway.

For the same reason, 100 years ago, Christians were against giving Blacks or women the same legal protections.

Ask yourself: 'What would Jesus character do?"

PS.  Here you have an example of why moral objectivity is wrong.  Other examples from our history are slavery, racial and gender discrimination.  You are a moral relativitist because you do not kill gays for breakfast as the Bible recommends. You said yourself that you are against slavery.  Where is your moral objectivity?  Pushed away into the footprints of history, LOL.

PPS.  Do you want to trim government size? Close all libraries, digitize books, convert them to one website, where people can check-out books electronically, provide time-based, copyrighted book viewer and you're are done.  This would save big bucks, and trim the government payroll numbers.  Another much bigger pie is in the military.  Bring all troops home, eliminate military bases outside of the US, protect your borders, reduce military personnel.

Yes Christians are protected by current law.

No individuals with gender dysphoria are not.

I am opposed to big government in general and that includes the creation of an ever expanding list of special legally protected classes over time. We need to be reducing government’s size and role in our lives not growing it.

Are Christians protected from discrimination by our current laws?

Are the transgender people protected from discrimination by the current laws?

You said in the past that you are against extending the discrimination laws to protect the transgender people. 

Saying that Christians are discriminated is like saying that WASPs are discriminated in the US. Christians rule the US.

Ok now you are flat out being ridiculous. Of course I have empathy for gays and transgender people.

I also don’t think people with homosexual tendencies are mentally ill. I have known several highly intelligent and highly functional people who are gay. Gender dysphoria is different story. The 50% attempted suicide rate gives that away if nothing else does.

By and large I do not support forced anything and that includes forced psychiatric care or forced incarceration unless there is no other choice.

I also oppose forced association against ones genuine religious beliefs. For example your humanist moral relativism religion has left you with a distain for Christianity. I have no problem with you deciding to never to hire Christians in your business.

Is that discrimination against Christians you bet it is. I also think such discrimination is very much the wrong thing to do. Nevertheless, not discriminating is not the highest ideal. In this case it should give way to the higher principal of freedom.

In regards to Hitler yes his party failed to get a majority of the popular vote but much of the votes he did not get went to other parties that ended up supporting him. The enabling act which officially granted him dictatorial powers letting him pass laws without parliament passed the with 441 votes in favor. Only 94 representatives opposed.

https://m.dw.com/en/the-law-that-enabled-hitlers-dictatorship/a-16689839

You have no empathy for gays and transgender people.  You think they are mentally ill.  If you had your way, you would remove them from society and lock them up in mental institutions and subject them to psychiatric treatments.  Electric shocks from the 1950s come to mind.

You support discrimination.  Discrimination causes harm.  Do you enjoy inflicting harm?

BTW, the Nazi party supported racial laws, the German society at large did not.  Hitler instituted dictatorship in Germany.  Learn history before you speak on the subject.  Even in the 1933 elections, Hitler only got the support of 43.9% of eligible voters, and that is after a good decade of political intimidation and violent suppression of any opposition.  Majority of Germans did not support Hitler.  In the 1920s, his support was in the low teens.

You say that I would have to grab pussies by a truckload because Trump does it.  50% Americans support Trump, it does not mean that if you live in the US, your moral code is the same as Trump's moral code.  

It is to your credit that you would stand up in opposition to evil in that scenario af_newbie. That fact that enough people did is why that particular evil failed.

However, you dodged the question. I did not ask you what you would do or if you would be among the living I asked you if following victory the Nazi's would suddenly become good men. If evil becomes good by popular consensus simply by killing the opposition.

The problem with your moral standard is the answer is yes they would be good men. In your own words "You are a good person if you follow the moral code that your society accepts." That is moral relativism in a nutshell.

August Landmesser was certainly an exceptional German he was exceptional because he did not follow the moral code his society accepted. He opposed Nazism and paid dearly for it. He was forced to fight in a penal battalion and was killed. His wife was killed. His children were placed in orphanages and fortunately survived. Hitler was elected into office via a democratic vote. He was given emergency dictatorial powers by a democratic vote in the legislature. Opposition existed but was not widespread there was no civil war in Germany or anything like it. His rise to power was legal.

You disagree with the term nihilism I will stop using it to describe you. It was not meant as a pejorative. You value life and that is good. It means you have kept at least a part of yourself free of relativism. There is no scientific reason to value life. There are billions of other humans very similar to you and probably many other planets with other life out there somewhere. Valuing life is probably necessary to reproduce and propagate but there is no scientific reason to do that either. The real reason to value life is not because it is rare or common or practical. The reason to value life is that each individual is an end in and of themselves.

You can certainly build a coherent worldview on moral relativism. It turns into a philosophy of power and the necessity to seek power over yourself and others at all costs. The following theoretical discussion between Kant and Nietzsche is a little deep but it highlights this last point.

Kant and Nietzsche talk it out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHJFWJgXuXg  


I understand deluded but sadistic?

I take no pleasure in inflicting suffering, humiliation, or pain on others. If I have done any of those things to you in the course of our discussion I apologize for it was unintentional.

^^^ All  you are indicating is that you don't understand honor.     

Deuteronomy 25:11-12
"If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."


Creator of the universe just had to put that scenario in, LOL. Enough said.

^^^ But do consider talking to others from both sides. Because many others find the Bible to be talking in an orderly, organized, coherent fashion. And you just might be wrong about the Bible.

If you seriously talk to others from both camps, you can at least tell God in the Judgment that you tried.

God answered?  WFT are you talking about?  Bible is an incoherent bunch of nonsense.  What God are you talking about?  45+ authors over the course of 2500+ years.  Are you serious?  There is nothing to discuss.

I am appalled by the sheer stupidity of the religious apologetics.

As for ass-wiping, wasn't that what he was doing when he responded to you?

God answered you in the Bible long before you asked. It's your fault if you don't accept the answers.

You truncated my sentence about life on Earth. (I said: "The life on Earth is not special, there is probably life elsewhere in the universe. ")

There is a non-zero chance (see Drake eq.) that there is life elsewhere in the universe.  How does this make me a nihilist?  Do you even understand what the term means?

As for the hypothetical situation about the Nazis, I am afraid I would not be able to experience this as I would be killed opposing their supremacist ideology. Just like I am opposing Islamist and Christian supremacist ideologies today.  I guess you do not even know German history.  How many Germans died opposing Hitler?  So stop fabricating this notion that all Germans supported Nazism.  I would probably end up like August Landmesser:



Like I said before, the world is in constant change, laws change as we learn more about animal/human psychology and biology.  

If you had to put a label on me, call me a materialist humanist, moral relativist but nihilist?  

Fuck, I value life (including human) more than you ever will, you deluded, sadistic prick.  I know we have ONE, fucking life to live, so it is more precious to me than you.  To you, this life means shit, as you look forward to 'unite' with your imaginary friend after you die and decompose.

You can fantasize all you want about your holy trinity (or whatever irrational entities you desire), but it will not change the fact that we were not created by some imaginary entity from dirt 6000 years ago, the entity that is more concerned with the sex life of one species of primates, than anything else.

Where is the bitcoin ECDSA algorithm described in the Bible?  Nowhere?  So just shut the fuck up about your Christian cult, Bronze Age, 'moral' values.

Ask your imaginary friend to post here.  If he does not respond, take the Bible and wipe your ass with it.

Imagine that your parents were very guilty feeling. They felt that they were completely unworthy and guilty of everything. Their response to their feelings of guilt and unworthiness was self flagellation on a regular basis. And they taught you the same. And you did this freely throughout your childhood.

Does this mean that once you grow up, that you can't change?

Going to Hell has to do with rejection of God.

There are two places where people can exist:
1. With God in Heaven, if God takes them there;
2. In this universe as long as it exists, because people are part of this universe.

Why will God take some people to Heaven, but let others remain in this universe? Because God is pulling Himself out of this universe to be obedient to the people who freely reject Him. But He is graciously taking those people with Him who want to remain with Him.

How long will it take this universe to be destroyed once the actual substance of its destruction starts? An eternity of time. God and Heaven are outside-of/way-beyond even the eternity and time of this universe.

The differences between Hitler and God are great. The similarity you suggest doesn't exist. Hitler destroyed those who were against his ideology against their will. God simply removes Himself from people who reject Him according to their rejection request.

Hitler wanted people he killed to die. God did the absolute best that could be done to save people alive.

Because of the way the universe was constructed, God willingly obeyed the request of the people who reject Him. He doesn't kill them. He simply leaves them where they are, as they request. If they can keep themselves alive, great. Let them do it.

In fact, God does more than simply leaving the people as they request. He fixes their request for life. He gives them eternal life. As God leaves this universe, it turns into a lake of fire, so to speak, because He is no longer here to maintain it. It dissolves, even though the completion of the dissolution will take an eternity. And the people who don't want God around any longer, are kept alive - just as they requested - in the churning of eternal destruction... the lake of fire talked about in the Bible.

Wake up and turn to God before you are stuck forever in the lake of fire... the destruction of this universe.