Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 161. (Read 901343 times)

Quote from: Jmild1 on July 08, 2016, 01:34:28 AM

I have not exactly and clearly understood your reply to the following question: so you think that everything he (allegedly) did (including flooding people, drowning innocent children to death, genocides, etc.) would be justifiable?

Everything that God does is just and righteous if for no other reason than that He owns everything.

Cool

WHHAAAAAATT? So you mean killing babies instead of directly killing the pharaoh in Egypt is just? What's seems to be the fault of a newborn baby in a conflict that your god and pharaoh had?

Obviously it makes no sense Escrowboy! And what's the fault of a new born baby if anyone in his/her preceding 10 generations was born out of a marriage?

Those born of an illicit union shall not be admitted to the assembly of the lord. Even to the tenth generation, none of their descendants shall be admitted to the assembly of the lord (Deuteronomy 23.2).

BADecker

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Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 06:21:02 PM

Quote from: kik1977 on July 07, 2016, 06:18:50 PM

Quote from: escrowboy on July 08, 2016, 03:11:34 AM

If you work with wood:
1. Does your wood complain when you cut it with the circular saw?
2. Does your circular saw complain when you try to push it through the wood, and it labors?
3. Do your nails complain when you hit them with a hammer?
4. Does your glue complain when you clamp it tightly between two pieces of wood?

No, of course not. They are all your property.

No. They don't complain because they are non-sentient inanimate objects. What kind of logic do you use? Huh

You don't know that. But, God's greatness is way greater than ours, way more than ours is greater than inanimate objects.

Besides, why did you not include quoting the microbe parts of my post, you big brute of a hypocrite.

Fight God all you want. Your end will be as you deserve, because He owns you and will give you as you deserve to be given.

Cool

Ok, I guess will not comment any further (and this is the last time I respond to you) because it seems you're not capable of having a polite and decent conversation without offending and insulting. Strange that god didn't teach you that it is not nice to insult people who simply disagree with you and politely express their point of you. But I can understand this could be the result of reading (and believing) the bible, which is clearly not an example of morality. Bye BAD.

What? You suddenly believe in God? This is some of the best news.

However, if you don't, I accept your excuses. What do you think?

Cool

It's not an excuse that you don't believe in a god. It is a logical reason why you don't believe in a certain god, if you think a god is impossible to exist in this world then that's not an excuse that is a well-thought.

I am not the Judge. I simply accept his excuses to me for not replying to me in this thread any longer. Whether or not God accepts him is up to God.

Cool

BADecker

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Activity: 3906

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I have not exactly and clearly understood your reply to the following question: so you think that everything he (allegedly) did (including flooding people, drowning innocent children to death, genocides, etc.) would be justifiable?

Everything that God does is just and righteous if for no other reason than that He owns everything.

Cool

WHHAAAAAATT? So you mean killing babies instead of directly killing the pharaoh in Egypt is just? What's seems to be the fault of a newborn baby in a conflict that your god and pharaoh had?

Go back and read the story.

For example, in the plague of hail, those Egyptian people who believe Moses and God, brought their animals and slaves/servants in from outside, so that they didn't die in the hail.

All any Egyptian would have had to do was use a hyssop branch to pain some blood taken from a year-old lamb/sheep on the door sills and posts, and his family would have been spared.

So, what was the point of the plague of death of the firstborn? It was believing what God said.

Now you. It's about time that you start believing what God says. If you don't (God being your owner), what use does He have for you? But He is fair, offering you time to change your ways.

After all, if your power tool that is your property is broken, and won't allow itself to be fixed no matter what you do to attempt to fix it, don't you finally trash it? You are God's property and tool. Be fixed before He trashes you.

Cool

escrowboy

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Quote from: legendster on May 08, 2015, 12:30:31 PM

I have not exactly and clearly understood your reply to the following question: so you think that everything he (allegedly) did (including flooding people, drowning innocent children to death, genocides, etc.) would be justifiable?

Everything that God does is just and righteous if for no other reason than that He owns everything.

Cool

WHHAAAAAATT? So you mean killing babies instead of directly killing the pharaoh in Egypt is just? What's seems to be the fault of a newborn baby in a conflict that your god and pharaoh had?

dippididodaday

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It's personal

I believe in God. He is my very best imaginary friend.

kaitou.kidd

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Just like how some Christians criticize Atheists for not believing in God, they do the same to us. I am Catholic myself, but I think it's God's choice on to choose a person's religion. Some Atheists just don't believe in religion, but don't criticize others for believing, but then get tired of the believers who try to change them so much. I've seen that happen to a friend of mine multiple times.

Mayuyu48

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So I see 2 threads of why islam hates people or why people hate Islam. I dont see the point of such a mundane debate based on religion any debate for or against religion would be stupid. Either you are stupid to believe what a prophet / god / divine entity said or you are stupid enough to believe you can change the minds of the bleak minded people who follow such a prophet / god / divine entity.

But since its fun let me initiate my own brand of 'why do' topic.

WHY DO ATHEISTS (like me) HATE RELIGION ?

Seriously what has to happen in a person's life for them to seriously give up hope on the one true everlasting brand (of religion) which their ancestors have followed for generations.

Everyone has their own story even I have mine, so lets hear some of it.

Generalizing should be a sin. On a serious note, you can not generalize so casually as to why atheists hate religion or islam hates etc etc etc.
Not everyone is the same, not every muslim is a terrorist, not every atheist hates the concept of religion and conformity.
It's a dump concept to generalize everyone and everything.

Jmild1

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Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 06:21:02 PM

Quote from: kik1977 on July 07, 2016, 06:18:50 PM

Quote from: kik1977 on July 07, 2016, 06:18:50 PM

If you work with wood:
1. Does your wood complain when you cut it with the circular saw?
2. Does your circular saw complain when you try to push it through the wood, and it labors?
3. Do your nails complain when you hit them with a hammer?
4. Does your glue complain when you clamp it tightly between two pieces of wood?

No, of course not. They are all your property.

No. They don't complain because they are non-sentient inanimate objects. What kind of logic do you use? Huh

You don't know that. But, God's greatness is way greater than ours, way more than ours is greater than inanimate objects.

Besides, why did you not include quoting the microbe parts of my post, you big brute of a hypocrite.

Fight God all you want. Your end will be as you deserve, because He owns you and will give you as you deserve to be given.

Cool

Ok, I guess will not comment any further (and this is the last time I respond to you) because it seems you're not capable of having a polite and decent conversation without offending and insulting. Strange that god didn't teach you that it is not nice to insult people who simply disagree with you and politely express their point of you. But I can understand this could be the result of reading (and believing) the bible, which is clearly not an example of morality. Bye BAD.

What? You suddenly believe in God? This is some of the best news.

However, if you don't, I accept your excuses. What do you think?

Cool

It's not an excuse that you don't believe in a god. It is a logical reason why you don't believe in a certain god, if you think a god is impossible to exist in this world then that's not an excuse that is a well-thought.

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

If you work with wood:
1. Does your wood complain when you cut it with the circular saw?
2. Does your circular saw complain when you try to push it through the wood, and it labors?
3. Do your nails complain when you hit them with a hammer?
4. Does your glue complain when you clamp it tightly between two pieces of wood?

No, of course not. They are all your property.

No. They don't complain because they are non-sentient inanimate objects. What kind of logic do you use? Huh

You don't know that. But, God's greatness is way greater than ours, way more than ours is greater than inanimate objects.

Besides, why did you not include quoting the microbe parts of my post, you big brute of a hypocrite.

Fight God all you want. Your end will be as you deserve, because He owns you and will give you as you deserve to be given.

Cool

Ok, I guess will not comment any further (and this is the last time I respond to you) because it seems you're not capable of having a polite and decent conversation without offending and insulting. Strange that god didn't teach you that it is not nice to insult people who simply disagree with you and politely express their point of you. But I can understand this could be the result of reading (and believing) the bible, which is clearly not an example of morality. Bye BAD.

What? You suddenly believe in God? This is some of the best news.

However, if you don't, I accept your excuses. What do you think?

Cool

kik1977

hero member

Activity: 593

Merit: 505

Wherever I may roam

Quote from: kik1977 on July 07, 2016, 06:11:58 PM

If you work with wood:
1. Does your wood complain when you cut it with the circular saw?
2. Does your circular saw complain when you try to push it through the wood, and it labors?
3. Do your nails complain when you hit them with a hammer?
4. Does your glue complain when you clamp it tightly between two pieces of wood?

No, of course not. They are all your property.

No. They don't complain because they are non-sentient inanimate objects. What kind of logic do you use? Huh

You don't know that. But, God's greatness is way greater than ours, way more than ours is greater than inanimate objects.

Besides, why did you not include quoting the microbe parts of my post, you big brute of a hypocrite.

Fight God all you want. Your end will be as you deserve, because He owns you and will give you as you deserve to be given.

Cool

Ok, I guess will not comment any further (and this is the last time I respond to you) because it seems you're not capable of having a polite and decent conversation without offending and insulting. Strange that god didn't teach you that it is not nice to insult people who simply disagree with you and politely express their point of you. But I can understand this could be the result of reading (and believing) the bible, which is clearly not an example of morality. Bye BAD.

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

If you work with wood:
1. Does your wood complain when you cut it with the circular saw?
2. Does your circular saw complain when you try to push it through the wood, and it labors?
3. Do your nails complain when you hit them with a hammer?
4. Does your glue complain when you clamp it tightly between two pieces of wood?

No, of course not. They are all your property.

No. They don't complain because they are non-sentient inanimate objects. What kind of logic do you use? Huh

And beside the logic that you use, you are saying that a god can kill with unbearable and unnecessary pain every children he want...because...it's his property?

Yes! But He doesn't do that. In fact, it is the kind of attitude that you are expressing that brings the anger of God down on people.

Cool

EDIT: You hypocrite of a microbe killer.

kik1977

hero member

Activity: 593

Merit: 505

Wherever I may roam

If you work with wood:
1. Does your wood complain when you cut it with the circular saw?
2. Does your circular saw complain when you try to push it through the wood, and it labors?
3. Do your nails complain when you hit them with a hammer?
4. Does your glue complain when you clamp it tightly between two pieces of wood?

No, of course not. They are all your property.

No. They don't complain because they are non-sentient inanimate objects. What kind of logic do you use? Huh

And beside the logic that you use, you are saying that a god can kill with unbearable and unnecessary pain every children he want...because...it's his property?

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

If you work with wood:
1. Does your wood complain when you cut it with the circular saw?
2. Does your circular saw complain when you try to push it through the wood, and it labors?
3. Do your nails complain when you hit them with a hammer?
4. Does your glue complain when you clamp it tightly between two pieces of wood?

No, of course not. They are all your property.

No. They don't complain because they are non-sentient inanimate objects. What kind of logic do you use? Huh

You don't know that. But, God's greatness is way greater than ours, way more than ours is greater than inanimate objects.

Besides, why did you not include quoting the microbe parts of my post, you big brute of a hypocrite.

Fight God all you want. Your end will be as you deserve, because He owns you and will give you as you deserve to be given.

Cool

kik1977

hero member

Activity: 593

Merit: 505

Wherever I may roam

Quote from: kik1977 on July 07, 2016, 05:47:26 PM

If you work with wood:
1. Does your wood complain when you cut it with the circular saw?
2. Does your circular saw complain when you try to push it through the wood, and it labors?
3. Do your nails complain when you hit them with a hammer?
4. Does your glue complain when you clamp it tightly between two pieces of wood?

No, of course not. They are all your property.

No. They don't complain because they are non-sentient inanimate objects. What kind of logic do you use? Huh

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

I have not exactly and clearly understood your reply to the following question: so you think that everything he (allegedly) did (including flooding people, drowning innocent children to death, genocides, etc.) would be justifiable?

Everything that God does is just and righteous if for no other reason than that He owns everything.

Cool

I can't believe it. How can you say that a god that drowns (can you imagine for a second how painful it is to actually die by drowning?) innocent children, who were not even in the position to have done anything bad or for which they would deserve to die, is a loving god? And not a few, possibly millions of children.. just because he was pissed off? And this is just one examples of the atrocities that christians believe their god did. What kind of morality is this? And then how can you say that atheists "hate"?

Even if this god would prove to be real, I would rather stay away from that unjust, unforgiving control-freak, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully (cit. R.Dawkins).

If you work with wood:
1. Does your wood complain when you cut it with the circular saw?
2. Does your circular saw complain when you try to push it through the wood, and it labors?
3. Do your nails complain when you hit them with a hammer?
4. Does your glue complain when you clamp it tightly between two pieces of wood?

No, of course not. They are all your property.

How many microbes has your mean immune system killed off today, right in your own body? If you use deodorant, you are killing more.

Ever mow the lawn? Ever cut down trees or trim the bushes?

You big mean brute of a hypocrite.

Why God would ever offer you eternal life, I don't know. No big deal, however. You won't get it the way you are going.

Cool

kik1977

hero member

Activity: 593

Merit: 505

Wherever I may roam

I have not exactly and clearly understood your reply to the following question: so you think that everything he (allegedly) did (including flooding people, drowning innocent children to death, genocides, etc.) would be justifiable?

Everything that God does is just and righteous if for no other reason than that He owns everything.

Cool

I can't believe it. How can you say that a god that drowns (can you imagine for a second how painful it is to actually die by drowning?) innocent children, who were not even in the position to have done anything bad or for which they would deserve to die, is a loving god? And not a few, possibly millions of children.. just because he was pissed off? And this is just one examples of the atrocities that christians believe their god did. What kind of morality is this? And then how can you say that atheists "hate"?

Even if this god would prove to be real, I would rather stay away from that unjust, unforgiving control-freak, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully (cit. R.Dawkins).

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 05:02:06 PM

I have not exactly and clearly understood your reply to the following question: so you think that everything he (allegedly) did (including flooding people, drowning innocent children to death, genocides, etc.) would be justifiable?

Everything that God does is just and righteous if for no other reason than that He owns everything.

Cool

kik1977

hero member

Activity: 593

Merit: 505

Wherever I may roam

Quote from: kik1977 on July 07, 2016, 04:55:14 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 04:43:17 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 04:05:09 PM

Quote from: kik1977 on July 07, 2016, 03:31:57 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 05:36:29 AM

As for sharing faith, I don't know what you mean. Read the Bible for an hour each day. Start at the beginning and read to the end. Read the New Testament 4 times for every reading of the Old Testament. Do this every day for the rest of your life. If you live for 20 more years, you will come to faith.

Could you explain why one should read the new testament 4 time for every reading of the old?
Is it because if you want to base your morality on the bible (and the old testament in particular), we would go around:

stoning women to death (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)
stoning children to death (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
stoning people who work on Sunday (Numbers 15:32-56)
killing gays (Romans 1:27 and Leviticus 20:13)... but strangely enough not lesbians (because god is a lovely chap)
Killing men who masturbate (Genesis 38:6-10)... but strangely enough not women, they can rub it Grin

practising ethnic cleansing (Exodus 34:11-14, Leviticus 26:7-9)
committing genocides (Numbers 21: 2-3, Numbers 21:33–35, Deuteronomy 2:26–35, and Joshua 1–12)
killing people because we suspect they are witches (Exodus 22:18)
not touching our girlfriends if they have their period (Lev. 15:19–24)
selling our daughters as slaves (Exodus 21:7)...
...because you know, slavery is ok (Leviticus 25:44)
drowning people (Genesis 7:21-23)
killing our enemies and raping their women (Numbers 31:7-18)
killing who disagree with us on religion (Leviticus 24:16)
killing cheaters (Leviticus 20:10)
killing women who get remarried (Deuteronomy 22:13-14,20-21)
allowing our daughters to be sexually assaulted by multiple rapists (Genesis 19:8 and Judges 19:16-30)...
...and after that she has to marry her rapist (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
chopping women's hands off if they touch another man's testicles (Deuteronomy 25:11) - even if it was to defend us
kicking out of churches people who have lost their testicles (Deuteronomy 23:1), doesn't matter if they had cancer or whatever
not eating shellfish and pig, camel, rock badger, rabbit, eagle, vulture, buzzard, falcon, raven, crow, ostrich, owl, seagull, hawk, pelican, stork, heron, bat, winged insects that walk on four legs unless they have joints to jump with like grasshoppers (?), bear, mole, mouse, lizard, gecko, crocodile, chameleon and snail (Leviticus 11).

And then you say that atheist "hate"? The whole bible is a big genocide!

Old Testament governmental and ceremonial laws in the Bible were for ancient Israel. They are still for anyone who wants to follow them by choice.

The ancient Israel ceremonial laws existed to foreshadow the coming of Jesus, the Messiah. This is explained in the N.T. book of Hebrews. Since Jesus did the work that the ceremonial laws were referring to, these laws are no longer needed.

Certainly, the O.T. governmental laws are not for people of the various nations. They are, however, the best governmental laws that can exist. So, it would be nice if they were practiced. But even modern Israel doesn't practice them.

The moral laws - don't harm anybody, and don't damage his property - are similar to the English Common Law, and American Common Law. You can find common law written down in Bouvier's "Maxims of Law" - http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/bouvier/maxims.shtml.

The reason to read the N.T. 4 times as much as the O.T. is because the O.T. will draw a person into despair because of all the wicked things that ancient Israel did, and how God punished them for it. We need the N.T. to constantly remind us that we are forgiven and saved. Yet we DO need the O.T. so that we are reminded of many of the good things... moral laws, methods of praising God, wisdom of Solomon and others.

Atheists who suggest strongly that atheism is NOT a religion hate themselves, because all people are religious creatures at heart.

Cool

Sorry, I disagree. I am tired of this thing that the old testament doesn't apply anymore after jesus came to earth.

Lots of people think that the O.T. didn't apply before Jesus came to earth, to say nothing about after. However, certain aspects of the O.T. will always apply to all people.

In the old testament times, god killed himself millions of human beings (and billions of animals), simply because they didn't do what he wanted.

God made people. God is infinitely more important than people. People are His property. He has the right.

Rather than use the right, God allowed His son, Jesus, to die on the cross, to take the punishment for all people, so that all people have the chance to be forgiven, go to Heaven and live forever. Can God help it if some people won't accept His salvation for them? Better to kill them while they are young, so they won't have as many sins to be punished for in the eternal Hell where they are going anyway.

If we have to see god as a moral example, I should kill my daughter 20 times a day.

Except that your daughter is more God's than she is yours. In addition, the O.T. moral laws that God placed there apply to everyone. They apply to you. Let God judge when your daughter is supposed to die.

Quote from: kik1977 on July 07, 2016, 04:55:14 PM

All the examples given above are either things that god asked or that he accepted and din't see as sins.

Now, if you say that at some point in time he realised that he was a bit bully and changed his (or her?) mind, made a new alliance with the mankind, by sending his son (who is also himself) and having him killed (a sort of suicide then)...ok. But still he is the same god that commanded (or allowed) all those things that happened before.

I don't say that at all.

First, those things are taken out of context. They are a goodness for the people who were living back then.

God never changes. All the love, anger, mercy and grace He has always had still exist, and always will. It is people who change. And by their changes, they essentially activate whichever aspect of God.

The O.T. writings were for the nation of ancient Israel, because Jesus, the Messiah, came through them to bring salvation to everybody. Ancient Israel had to do it just the way the laws told them, so that they could be a light for the nations, so that the nations could understand about Jesus when He came. The sad thing is that Israel doesn't recognize Jesus.

You are very mistaken in the things you are thinking and writing.

Cool

So you think that everything he (allegedly) did (including flooding people, drowning innocent children to death, genocides, etc.) would be justifiable?

Well, don't you have the right to do with your property the things that you want?

The difference between God's greatness and ours is tremendously more than the difference between our greatness and the greatness of a microbe.

Wake up and look at the freedom God has given all people. But if He does something to us, no matter how it looks to us, we are His property, and He has the power and the right.

If you think that you don't like God or what He does, at least be logical, and be on His side as much as you can. He owns you, has the power, and will destroy His enemies, while saving His people.

Your choice (because He has allowed you the choice).

Cool

I have not exactly and clearly understood your reply to the following question: so you think that everything he (allegedly) did (including flooding people, drowning innocent children to death, genocides, etc.) would be justifiable?

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 04:43:17 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 04:05:09 PM

Quote from: kik1977 on July 07, 2016, 03:31:57 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 05:36:29 AM

As for sharing faith, I don't know what you mean. Read the Bible for an hour each day. Start at the beginning and read to the end. Read the New Testament 4 times for every reading of the Old Testament. Do this every day for the rest of your life. If you live for 20 more years, you will come to faith.

Could you explain why one should read the new testament 4 time for every reading of the old?
Is it because if you want to base your morality on the bible (and the old testament in particular), we would go around:

stoning women to death (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)
stoning children to death (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
stoning people who work on Sunday (Numbers 15:32-56)
killing gays (Romans 1:27 and Leviticus 20:13)... but strangely enough not lesbians (because god is a lovely chap)
Killing men who masturbate (Genesis 38:6-10)... but strangely enough not women, they can rub it Grin

practising ethnic cleansing (Exodus 34:11-14, Leviticus 26:7-9)
committing genocides (Numbers 21: 2-3, Numbers 21:33–35, Deuteronomy 2:26–35, and Joshua 1–12)
killing people because we suspect they are witches (Exodus 22:18)
not touching our girlfriends if they have their period (Lev. 15:19–24)
selling our daughters as slaves (Exodus 21:7)...
...because you know, slavery is ok (Leviticus 25:44)
drowning people (Genesis 7:21-23)
killing our enemies and raping their women (Numbers 31:7-18)
killing who disagree with us on religion (Leviticus 24:16)
killing cheaters (Leviticus 20:10)
killing women who get remarried (Deuteronomy 22:13-14,20-21)
allowing our daughters to be sexually assaulted by multiple rapists (Genesis 19:8 and Judges 19:16-30)...
...and after that she has to marry her rapist (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
chopping women's hands off if they touch another man's testicles (Deuteronomy 25:11) - even if it was to defend us
kicking out of churches people who have lost their testicles (Deuteronomy 23:1), doesn't matter if they had cancer or whatever
not eating shellfish and pig, camel, rock badger, rabbit, eagle, vulture, buzzard, falcon, raven, crow, ostrich, owl, seagull, hawk, pelican, stork, heron, bat, winged insects that walk on four legs unless they have joints to jump with like grasshoppers (?), bear, mole, mouse, lizard, gecko, crocodile, chameleon and snail (Leviticus 11).

And then you say that atheist "hate"? The whole bible is a big genocide!

Old Testament governmental and ceremonial laws in the Bible were for ancient Israel. They are still for anyone who wants to follow them by choice.

The ancient Israel ceremonial laws existed to foreshadow the coming of Jesus, the Messiah. This is explained in the N.T. book of Hebrews. Since Jesus did the work that the ceremonial laws were referring to, these laws are no longer needed.

Certainly, the O.T. governmental laws are not for people of the various nations. They are, however, the best governmental laws that can exist. So, it would be nice if they were practiced. But even modern Israel doesn't practice them.

The moral laws - don't harm anybody, and don't damage his property - are similar to the English Common Law, and American Common Law. You can find common law written down in Bouvier's "Maxims of Law" - http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/bouvier/maxims.shtml.

The reason to read the N.T. 4 times as much as the O.T. is because the O.T. will draw a person into despair because of all the wicked things that ancient Israel did, and how God punished them for it. We need the N.T. to constantly remind us that we are forgiven and saved. Yet we DO need the O.T. so that we are reminded of many of the good things... moral laws, methods of praising God, wisdom of Solomon and others.

Atheists who suggest strongly that atheism is NOT a religion hate themselves, because all people are religious creatures at heart.

Cool

Sorry, I disagree. I am tired of this thing that the old testament doesn't apply anymore after jesus came to earth.

Lots of people think that the O.T. didn't apply before Jesus came to earth, to say nothing about after. However, certain aspects of the O.T. will always apply to all people.

In the old testament times, god killed himself millions of human beings (and billions of animals), simply because they didn't do what he wanted.

God made people. God is infinitely more important than people. People are His property. He has the right.

Rather than use the right, God allowed His son, Jesus, to die on the cross, to take the punishment for all people, so that all people have the chance to be forgiven, go to Heaven and live forever. Can God help it if some people won't accept His salvation for them? Better to kill them while they are young, so they won't have as many sins to be punished for in the eternal Hell where they are going anyway.

If we have to see god as a moral example, I should kill my daughter 20 times a day.

Except that your daughter is more God's than she is yours. In addition, the O.T. moral laws that God placed there apply to everyone. They apply to you. Let God judge when your daughter is supposed to die.

Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 04:43:17 PM

All the examples given above are either things that god asked or that he accepted and din't see as sins.

Now, if you say that at some point in time he realised that he was a bit bully and changed his (or her?) mind, made a new alliance with the mankind, by sending his son (who is also himself) and having him killed (a sort of suicide then)...ok. But still he is the same god that commanded (or allowed) all those things that happened before.

I don't say that at all.

First, those things are taken out of context. They are a goodness for the people who were living back then.

God never changes. All the love, anger, mercy and grace He has always had still exist, and always will. It is people who change. And by their changes, they essentially activate whichever aspect of God.

The O.T. writings were for the nation of ancient Israel, because Jesus, the Messiah, came through them to bring salvation to everybody. Ancient Israel had to do it just the way the laws told them, so that they could be a light for the nations, so that the nations could understand about Jesus when He came. The sad thing is that Israel doesn't recognize Jesus.

You are very mistaken in the things you are thinking and writing.

Cool

So you think that everything he (allegedly) did (including flooding people, drowning innocent children to death, genocides, etc.) would be justifiable?

Well, don't you have the right to do with your property the things that you want?

The difference between God's greatness and ours is tremendously more than the difference between our greatness and the greatness of a microbe.

Wake up and look at the freedom God has given all people. But if He does something to us, no matter how it looks to us, we are His property, and He has the power and the right.

If you think that you don't like God or what He does, at least be logical, and be on His side as much as you can. He owns you, has the power, and will destroy His enemies, while saving His people.

Your choice (because He has allowed you the choice).

Cool

kik1977

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Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 04:05:09 PM

Quote from: kik1977 on July 07, 2016, 03:31:57 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 07, 2016, 05:36:29 AM

As for sharing faith, I don't know what you mean. Read the Bible for an hour each day. Start at the beginning and read to the end. Read the New Testament 4 times for every reading of the Old Testament. Do this every day for the rest of your life. If you live for 20 more years, you will come to faith.

Could you explain why one should read the new testament 4 time for every reading of the old?
Is it because if you want to base your morality on the bible (and the old testament in particular), we would go around:

stoning women to death (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)
stoning children to death (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
stoning people who work on Sunday (Numbers 15:32-56)
killing gays (Romans 1:27 and Leviticus 20:13)... but strangely enough not lesbians (because god is a lovely chap)
Killing men who masturbate (Genesis 38:6-10)... but strangely enough not women, they can rub it Grin

practising ethnic cleansing (Exodus 34:11-14, Leviticus 26:7-9)
committing genocides (Numbers 21: 2-3, Numbers 21:33–35, Deuteronomy 2:26–35, and Joshua 1–12)
killing people because we suspect they are witches (Exodus 22:18)
not touching our girlfriends if they have their period (Lev. 15:19–24)
selling our daughters as slaves (Exodus 21:7)...
...because you know, slavery is ok (Leviticus 25:44)
drowning people (Genesis 7:21-23)
killing our enemies and raping their women (Numbers 31:7-18)
killing who disagree with us on religion (Leviticus 24:16)
killing cheaters (Leviticus 20:10)
killing women who get remarried (Deuteronomy 22:13-14,20-21)
allowing our daughters to be sexually assaulted by multiple rapists (Genesis 19:8 and Judges 19:16-30)...
...and after that she has to marry her rapist (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
chopping women's hands off if they touch another man's testicles (Deuteronomy 25:11) - even if it was to defend us
kicking out of churches people who have lost their testicles (Deuteronomy 23:1), doesn't matter if they had cancer or whatever
not eating shellfish and pig, camel, rock badger, rabbit, eagle, vulture, buzzard, falcon, raven, crow, ostrich, owl, seagull, hawk, pelican, stork, heron, bat, winged insects that walk on four legs unless they have joints to jump with like grasshoppers (?), bear, mole, mouse, lizard, gecko, crocodile, chameleon and snail (Leviticus 11).

And then you say that atheist "hate"? The whole bible is a big genocide!

Old Testament governmental and ceremonial laws in the Bible were for ancient Israel. They are still for anyone who wants to follow them by choice.

The ancient Israel ceremonial laws existed to foreshadow the coming of Jesus, the Messiah. This is explained in the N.T. book of Hebrews. Since Jesus did the work that the ceremonial laws were referring to, these laws are no longer needed.

Certainly, the O.T. governmental laws are not for people of the various nations. They are, however, the best governmental laws that can exist. So, it would be nice if they were practiced. But even modern Israel doesn't practice them.

The moral laws - don't harm anybody, and don't damage his property - are similar to the English Common Law, and American Common Law. You can find common law written down in Bouvier's "Maxims of Law" - http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/bouvier/maxims.shtml.

The reason to read the N.T. 4 times as much as the O.T. is because the O.T. will draw a person into despair because of all the wicked things that ancient Israel did, and how God punished them for it. We need the N.T. to constantly remind us that we are forgiven and saved. Yet we DO need the O.T. so that we are reminded of many of the good things... moral laws, methods of praising God, wisdom of Solomon and others.

Atheists who suggest strongly that atheism is NOT a religion hate themselves, because all people are religious creatures at heart.

Cool

Sorry, I disagree. I am tired of this thing that the old testament doesn't apply anymore after jesus came to earth.

Lots of people think that the O.T. didn't apply before Jesus came to earth, to say nothing about after. However, certain aspects of the O.T. will always apply to all people.

In the old testament times, god killed himself millions of human beings (and billions of animals), simply because they didn't do what he wanted.

God made people. God is infinitely more important than people. People are His property. He has the right.

Rather than use the right, God allowed His son, Jesus, to die on the cross, to take the punishment for all people, so that all people have the chance to be forgiven, go to Heaven and live forever. Can God help it if some people won't accept His salvation for them? Better to kill them while they are young, so they won't have as many sins to be punished for in the eternal Hell where they are going anyway.

If we have to see god as a moral example, I should kill my daughter 20 times a day.

Except that your daughter is more God's than she is yours. In addition, the O.T. moral laws that God placed there apply to everyone. They apply to you. Let God judge when your daughter is supposed to die.