Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 253. (Read 901367 times)

Right at the moment, I am not interested in understanding the word. Thus, I am not sure if I can agree on the methodology.

Probably what we can agree on is that for whatever reason we can't agree, this isnt a discussion thread, it is an argument thread, started by a troll.

Well the etymology is latin if you want to understand the word you should know where the word is coming from.

Do you agree on the methodology?


Best regards.

"Religio" is not an English word. If you use it in regard to the English language, you need to define it. If you define it, other people may or may not accept your definition of it. If enough people accept your definition of it and start to use it, it might get into the English dictionaries as an English word. Right now, it doesn't have any English meaning.

The Ciceronian Thesis on the word Religio (prefix of the word Religion):
"coloro, invece, che diligentemente riesaminassero e, tanto quanto, osservassero tutto ciò che fosse pertinente il culto degli dei sono detti religiosi (che deriva) da relegere, come eleganti (deriva) da eligere, diligenti (deriva) da diligere, intelligenti (deriva) da intelligere; infatti, in tutte queste parole è contenuto il valore di legere, lo stesso che in religioso."
EN:
"Who will diligently reexamine and, at the same level, rewatch everything concerned deities cults are called religious from relegate, like classy from choosy, diligent from diligere, intelligent from intelligence, in every one of those words it is contained the verb tie which is the same of religious."
Ref: http://it.cathopedia.org/wiki/Religione_(etimologia)

In others word the term religion is accepted to indicate a set of rituals a person make (in respect to the deity).

Now, I ask you BADecker: how a group of atheists have the same rituals?


Best regards.



PS:: I omitted the lattanzianans and agostinians thesis are the Ciceronian thesis is the one most accredited on modern philology.

How many times must I repeat myself. As I said in my previous post, the word "universe" is one of the translations for the Hebrew words "heavens and earth" into English. Universe is in the O.T. It is there in meaning.

In addition, the New Testament is part of the Bible. For people following the time of Jesus, it is the most important part of the Bible.

None of the English words or Italian words are in the Old Testament. Why not? Because the whole thing was written in Hebrew.

The word "universe" is simply another English way of saying "heavens and earth."

Because of this, "universe" IS in the Bible.

In addition, in the New International 1984 translation of the Bible, the word "universe" is found in the New Testament in First Corinthians 4:9 where Saint Paul says:
"Universe" is also in Ephesians 4:10 where Saint Paul is talking about Jesus when he says:
Then in Philippians 2:14-16:
The writer to the Hebrews says in Hebrews 1:1,2:
Then, in Hebrews 11:3:
The word for "universe" in Italian is "universo." Perhaps "universo" is not found in the Italian Bible. Should you maybe go back to school to find out?



EDIT:
Ebrei 11:3 dice, La Bibbia Della Gioia (BDG):

If you accept that definition as a true one, than you need to define the word Universe as there is no word Universe in the Bible.
That is the definition in my Language (from the most respected italian language source):
"religione Complesso di credenze, sentimenti, riti che legano un individuo o un gruppo umano con ciò che esso ritiene sacro, in particolare con la divinità, oppure il complesso dei dogmi, dei precetti, dei riti che costituiscono un dato culto religioso"

EN:
"Religion: set of beliefs, sentiments, rituals that tie a person or a group of people with what he/she/it believes to be sacred, in specific with the reference to the divinity, or the set of dogmas, precepts and rituals that form a particular religious cult"
Ref: http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/religione/

The most respected language source in my Country has the word deity in the definition: no way to get out.

At this point I prefer the definition with the word Universe in it.

More on the subject:
"Da dove derivi religio è ancora una vexata quæstio anche se un punto fermo può essere posto: questo termine è originario dell'antica lingua latina e non esiste nelle altre lingue coeve una qualche parola che gli corrisponda appieno[15]. È un termine forgiato, quindi, nella cultura romana, modellato nella religione pagana romana e rimodulato, infine, dal Cristianesimo[15]. Sull'etimologia di religio si confrontano da sempre tre tesi: la ciceroniana, la lattanziana e l'agostiniana. Intorno alle dette tesi, che sono riprodotte anche in alcuni scritti di teologia dogmatica[16], si è arrovellato il dibattito filologico nel corso della storia senza giungere ad una conclusione certa che manca ancor oggi anche se, tra i filologi moderni e contemporanei, la tesi agostiniana sembra essere stata tralasciata e si registra una certa preferenza per la tesi ciceroniana rispetto alla lattanziana."
EN:
"Religion comes from the lating word religio (verb).
From were the word religio cames is a vexata quæstio (an open discussion on what everything has been said and anyone has been spoken) but un firm point can be inferred: this word is originated in the ancient Latin language and do not exists in others coetaneous languages a word that is fully synonymous of religio. Is a forged term in roman culture, modeled in roman pagan rituals and remodeled from Christianity. On the etimology of the word religion there are three thesis: ciceronians, lattanzianans and agostinians. Around those three thesis, that are also reproduced on some dogmatic theology tomes, a philological debat had been striven in history without coming to a agreed conclusion, although if on modern philologists agostinians thesis has been abandoned while ciceronian thesis is preferred over lattanzianans one."
Ref: http://it.cathopedia.org/wiki/Religione_(etimologia)


Best regards.

If you say, "For the purposes of our discussion here, 'religion' shall mean such and such, and 'atheism' shall mean this and that," then you are absolutely correct, but ONLY if you can get an agreement from forum members to use your definitions.

That isn't what we have been doing in this discussion, although you might be trying to sneak in a quasi-agreement among forum members regarding definitions that you prefer. Rather, we have, in general, been using words according to their dictionary definitions.

With regard to the dictionary definition of "religion," "atheism" fits the meaning of the word "religion." And it doesn't only fit it regarding the part that says:
but it also fits, to some extent, the major part that says:
which is the main definition.

Notice the portion of this main definition that says, "... when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies." This portion is preceded by the word "especially," denoting that the definition, also, stands without some kind of supreme being included.

Notice that portions following the "superhuman" part use the words "usually" and "often," denoting that the definition can stand without the portions that "usually" and "often" are referring to.

Because of this, we can rightfully say that religion means, simply:What is interesting is that atheists are full of such beliefs in science theory, which has not been proven to be fact. Thus, atheism is definitely a religion.

Part of a meaning is not the entire meaning. Unless there's a god or supernatural beliefs involved, your definition of religion is only part the usual definitions of religion. Therefore you aren't using the word the way it is usually defined.

I know Zeus is up there, isn't that enough for you? Why don't you follow the one true god?

You have to work at it a little to see what is behind you. Your eyes can't easily see the back of your head. You might use a couple of mirrors.

In a spiritual way, only through lots of training and understanding can you see the things that are mentally and spiritually behind you... the things of your subconscious. What's most interesting is, even if you start to figure your subconscious out a bit, it is extremely difficult to see if there is someone else in there working on it besides you.

Think what you like, but also recognize that you don't know if you have a spiritual friend or enemy right inside your mind, the friend holding you up, the enemy tearing you down.

That's the way we are, isn't it. If you picked up one of the original printings of the Bible by the King James crew, you wouldn't be able to read it except that you had special training. And, the funny thing about it, it is English.

As far as how I use the word "religion," there are many in the world who understand it that way.

As far as making up my own meaning for the word "religion," my restating of the definition using other words than the dictionary I quoted previously, is a thing that kids are taught in schools all over. They are taught to say "it" in their own words. The idea is to get an understanding of something by the words used.

In the definition of "religion" found at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion?s=t, definition number 6 states:
While this definition is most certainly not the popular one, it is still part of the meaning of the word "religion."

As far as I, myself, having more than one religion, perhaps it is not incorrect to suggest this. But, maybe it is all part of my personal religion. How many religions do you have?

Not really. You use the word religion in a way that is not acceptable by the rest of the world. All of the definitions of religion which I could find include a belief or faith in a god or the supernatural.

You've made up your own meaning for religion, which is simply "Anything on which you spend a lot of energy". This means everyone posting here has multiple religions - any hobby you have (such as correcting logical fallacies posted by forum members) becomes a religion to you.

By your own definition, you simply posting here regularly is a religion - you have at least two religions, maybe more.

He just thinks that because his imaginary friend whispered it in his ear.  Therefore its a FACT.  No discussion entered into it.

I'd like more details - how small is this group, and how did you measure it's size? Or did you just make this up?

OK, let's focus on the words:


Your quote nothing to do with atheism, and everything to do with being a man.

The definition of an Atheist: Does not have imaginary friends.

So in essence when we speak of religion, it means that you either have an imaginary friend, or you follow the guidelines to living set out by your imaginary friend.

And the rest of the atheists live it as part of the general religion of their lives.

A small group of loud atheists live it as it was a religion