Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 4. (Read 901370 times)

What are you even yammering about. It has been known for ages that the universe has different creators. Look at all the artists who create music, or pictures, or machines.

But there is only one Creator of the universe. The quality and complexity of what He created when He created the universe, shows that He is God by definition.

Atheists get upset after a while, if they are shown that they understand deep down that God exists. Their religion of non-religioin doesn't cut it. If I had such a religion, I would probably hate religion, too.

BADecker: The simple answer that is obvious to everyone is the machine quality of the universe. Machines have makers.

BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS  BREAKING NEWS  BREAKING NEWS  BREAKING NEWS

Badecker admits the universe has different creators and not just one, is he finally using his brain?

^^^ Oh, that was simply you not accepting science. All you were doing is trying to show that religion isn't religion by not accepting that your religion is a religion.

Why do atheists hate religion? Because atheism is a hoax.

Yes I remember, you were unable to explain why there has to be just 1 maker and not many, your "proof" was literally this: the creator/creators of the universe have to be more complex than it. That definition, even if true, has a lot of possibilities, like i said, complex aliens from another universe or multiple gods could have created the universe and all those options fit within your argument.

And the way Paul says what he says shows that it is his religion to believe that way. Since you believe the way he does, why don't you form a religious denomination? Call it The Atheism Non-Religion Religion or something similar.

This is discussed in the God proof thread over in the Off-Topic section.

@CoinCube: dippididodaddy eh? hahaha. When I read about the inevitable monopolization of your time by the new business, I realized time is running short, and the invaluable contributions to this discussion made by you, soon coming to an end (or at least slowing down drastically), and something had to be done. I therefore devised a plan to summon you back (maybe), one last time to be invigorated by your spirited enduring argumentation. It worked! Goodluck and Godspeed to you too. Please do return at a convenient time.

It was his unbiased observation.

BTW, he was 100% on the money.

But to you, anything that invalidates your Bronze Age cult fascination is a religion. 

Yep, as you said, machines have makers, so why are you so sure there is only 1 god and not multiple? Machines do have multiple makers don't they?

^^^ Except for one minor detail. The way Paul Dirac says what he says, and his mindset behind it, shows that it is part of his personal religion... if you use the dictionary definition of religion, that is.

That is the root cause of the problem.  There is no 'us vs them'.  There is just 'us' in this vast universe.  A constantly evolving lifeform that is capable of being aware of where it is and what it is.  

The sooner you realize that the sooner you'll shed the veils of your delusion.

I guess the best advice I can give you is don't jump to conclusions of "what happened or was before the Big Bang", "was there before the Big Bang" or "what is the Dark Energy or Dark Matter" without fully understanding and having evidence to support your conclusions.

Otherwise, you'll look like a delusional, babbling fool.

As for your constant references to the religious cult you were born into, well, they carry no weight in the real world.  As good as any reference to any fictional characters from thousands of other cults humans developed over the years.  You are barking at the wrong tree.

I urge you to re-educate yourself in science, it will provide you with a much clearer picture of what is happening to you and others around you.  It will become abundantly clear that there are no ghosts, spirits, heaven or hell or any of the supernatural constructs human minds managed to contrive.

And that unknown, undefined entity of yours is not it.  If it is undefined and unknown, let it be that.  Don't assign any additional properties to something you don't know or understand.

Try MIT OCW https://www.youtube.com/user/MIT/videos

PS.
Since you like what other people say on the subject, I'll leave you with what Paul Dirac once said:

"I cannot understand why we idle discussing religion. If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality. The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination. It is quite understandable why primitive people, who were so much more exposed to the overpowering forces of nature than we are today, should have personified these forces in fear and trembling. But nowadays, when we understand so many natural processes, we have no need for such solutions. I can't for the life of me see how the postulate of an Almighty God helps us in any way. What I do see is that this assumption leads to such unproductive questions as why God allows so much misery and injustice, the exploitation of the poor by the rich and all the other horrors He might have prevented. If religion is still being taught, it is by no means because its ideas still convince us, but simply because some of us want to keep the lower classes quiet. Quiet people are much easier to govern than clamorous and dissatisfied ones. They are also much easier to exploit. Religion is a kind of opium that allows a nation to lull itself into wishful dreams and so forget the injustices that are being perpetrated against the people. Hence the close alliance between those two great political forces, the State and the Church. Both need the illusion that a kindly God rewards—in heaven if not on earth—all those who have not risen up against injustice, who have done their duty quietly and uncomplainingly. That is precisely why the honest assertion that God is a mere product of the human imagination is branded as the worst of all mortal sins."

Ok one last post before I go because this is so earily similar to something I just read. Uncle Screwtape from the the book by C.S. Lewis would absolutely agree with you here dippididodaddy.

“Jargon, not argument, is your best ally in keeping him from the Church. Don't waste time trying to make him think that materialism is true! Make him think it is strong, or stark, or courageous--that it is the philosophy of the future. That's the sort of thing he cares about.
The trouble about argument is that it moves the whole struggle on to the Enemy's own ground. He can argue too; whereas in really practical propaganda of the kind I am suggesting He has been shown for centuries to be greatly the inferior of Our Father Below. By the very act of arguing, you awake the patient's reason; and once it is awake, who can foresee the result?

Even if a particular train of thought can be twisted so as to end in our favor, you will find that you have been strengthening in your patient the fatal habit of attending to universal issues and withdrawing his attention from the stream of immediate sense experiences. Your business is to fix his attention on the stream. Teach him to call it "real life" and don't let him ask what he means by "real."” - Uncle Screwtape


The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D3MWVMKKY3A&

We humans will never be able to escape our neurophysiologically hardwired,  linguistic meaning making mechanisms - it is rooted to the core of our being. But science has indeed prodded religious linguistics as a superficial kind, a kind that needed a rude awakening, a disillusionment if you will. Yes, it is through the applied methodology of science that religious members became disappointed, dissatisfied  and utterly discontented with the cheap spells that their various sects have so lavishly kept casting on them to keep the poor parishioners illusioned  and falsely enchanted throughout the entirety of their miserable lives.

But you are right, we need new linguistic jargon that will unleash the exploring minds of humans, but keep us grounded in the materialistic reality, through which science has granted us a much fuller, clearer (disenchanted) and sense driven understanding.

I read your article.  Basically, it says, if science would detect anything spiritual, it would still be considered material, so you would never 'leave' the materialism based worldview.

So what?

I think the definition of materialism does not really describe our current scientific discoveries.   What we consider material, is really mostly empty space, with some probabilistic energy/wave distributions that follow certain physical laws.  Electrons do not really exist as we were thought in school.

We really need a new term to describe people who do not believe in magic, spirits, ghosts, Gods or other supernatural forces or entities.

Maybe we need to call it Energism or Wavism or simply call it SWV (Scientific World View).

I think science outpaced our linguistic development.

Now, as to your point of how to 'get out of materialism prison', well, I am not sure what you are suggesting would work on any 'materialistic' scientist. The reason is that the supernatural is not a testable proposition.  So it will not be even considered.

If you want to change the mind of a 'materialist', you need to speak his/her language.  You cannot talk about scriptures or some emotional subjective experiences.  Instead, you have to talk about things that can be independently tested and validated.

What you cannot do is jump to conclusions or give answers to unknowns based on no evidence. These will be dismissed outright.

The funny thing is that most religious people think that quoting the Bible/Quran/Talmud will help them with their case, nothing can be further from the truth.  It is like talking to the Westboro Baptist and quoting the Quran.

If you want to get the attention of a 'materialist', don't use scripture, use any non-religious evidence for your claims.

Empiric knowledge can take us pretty far.

We can use such knowledge to strip away and examine the various layers of our beliefs like so many layers of an onion. Eventually, however, we reach a point were that type of reduction can go no further.

At that point we transition into a different and more fundamental frame of reference. This area has many names. It has been called metaphysics, a priori, faith, religion. The name is not particularly important. The consequences of the decisions made at this fundamental level, however, are profound for they ultimately define who and what we are.

Materialism is one such choice. It is a common metaphysical trap of our era and difficult to escape once embraced.

The "evidence" trap: Why so many modern people are 'stuck' in materialism
https://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-evidence-trap-why-so-many-modern.html?m=1

The Book is a blueprint. The choice we make as individuals is like visualizing a completed structure from a set of plans and then deciding if that is what we are going to be a part of. Its a decision made ultimately with the heart too not just the intellect. Most important choices are.

The process can be difficult due to our limited perspectives and the signal loss that occurs due to the vast distance between us and the societies of the ancient past. Humanity is a terrible medium to transmit information through.

When deciding whether or not to trust it helps to focus first on the areas least susceptible to signal loss. The parables are nearly timeless and the closest part of the Bible to the source of Christianity. There are not very many of them and I recommend anyone seriously considering the topic to examine them all both with their heart and their reason.

The Parables
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/parables-of-jesus/

It has been a pleasure discussing these topics with you all. I have greatly enjoyed the back and forth. I am now called elsewhere and will disengage. I am starting a new business that will monopolize my time so this will be my last post for a while on Bitcoin Talk. I wish you all well on your individual journeys.

Goodluck and Godspeed.

^^^ We talked about this in the God proof thread in the Off-Topic section. The simple answer that is obvious to everyone is the machine quality of the universe. Machines have makers. But if this weren't enough, there is more over in that thread.

Your desire to remain ignorant of machines and machine-makers is astounding. It doesn't do you any good. And it only serves to uphold what is written in the Bible about your kind. So, thanks for helping to prove God and the Bible.

It's easy for anyone to see why atheists hate religion. Right religion is organized looking for the truth. Atheism tends towards organized destruction... which actually makes it a wrong religion. Right religion will win, just as the appearance of the orderly universe is a fact. Such will be your ultimate destruction, rather than the destruction of the universe.

But, you have a chance to turn to right religion. Do it now, while you still have time.

''Since you are unwilling to even recognize the existence of God, how in the world can you begin to understand the fantastically wonderful Greatness He is? His moving of His people from this universe to Heaven, is removing them from the troubles and boredoms of this life, to a life of glory and joy. How does it work? Nobody knows, except that it is being done through the wonderful greatness that God is and does.''

Seems to be a rhetoric that repeats many times in the bible, how did god do this, nobody knows, how did god create the universe? Nobody knows. How will god prevent evil from happening in heaven? Nobody knows. Why do some children die earlier than others? Nobody knows.

Do we know anything or are we just supposed to trust the book?

^^^ The term or idea of "the answers of life" is a very general thing. You have found some of them, haven't you? You do breathe, don't you? You drink water and eat food don't you?

Do you do these things habitually, or habitually un-habitually... where you change your routine of breathing and eating on a regular basis?

Since you are unwilling to even recognize the existence of God, how in the world can you begin to understand the fantastically wonderful Greatness He is? His moving of His people from this universe to Heaven, is removing them from the troubles and boredoms of this life, to a life of glory and joy. How does it work? Nobody knows, except that it is being done through the wonderful greatness that God is and does.

Have you so forgotten the feelings of getting things new and fresh - like a new car, or a wonderful birthday present, or winning the lottery, or making a fortune in Bitcoin, or whatever good things that have happened to you in life - that you can't imagine what it would be like to be getting new and greater things forever, without the boredom?

Worshiping God is what He made us for. And He is willing to reward us when we simply do what we were made for. GOD IS SO GREAT that worshiping Him advances us into the glory and greatness of what He is, even though it seems to take a long time for us to get there. But the advancement is in joy, so it is not only worth it, but it is desired.

Wake up! You are placing yourself into a position where you are going to entirely miss the greatness, and the joy of becoming great.

No all I said is this: ''Have you found the answers of life though? How do you know you will if you haven't?''


Which was a question since you claimed you can only find it through religion so I asked you if you did, clearly you didn't. Heaven is not a purpose or meaning, going to heaven to do what, what purpose, what meaning, doing the same shit that you do here but forever? Worshiping god forever? That's the purpose?

^^^ All you are saying is that you found some answers to life, but you don't like them, mostly because you are unwilling to understand them.