Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 2. (Read 901520 times)

Yes you have. You made the choice consciously or unconsciously when you embraced materialism. This little video should help clarify this for you.

What Lies Behind the Moral Law
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcRFYGr1zcg

I would make the case that I have actually rejected one more god then you for at some point in my life I have rejected every deity you have but I have also rejected your idol of moral relativism.

I was not at all religious for the majority of my adult life. I have embraced the secular world and and succeeded in it on its own terms. I am a financially successful prodigal son if you will. It was only comparatively recently that I came to understand the bankruptcy of the entire modern system its financial system yes, hence my interest in bitcoin, but the failure goes much deeper than just finance.

When I did return to God it was a slow process starting with logical first principles to determine that my beliefs where in accordance with my reason and that my views were not self contradictory or incoherent.

Only then did I try and figure out what if any religion I fit into best. I did look at alternatives. Most religions have wisdom in them if you look. That includes Islam and Buddhism among others. The goal is to find truth. As for myself I seriously considered converting to orthodox Judaism for a long time and I even took a few classes with a rabbi. The Ramchal's book Way of God is to date one of the most insightful I have ever read and I would recommend it to anyone interested in God be they Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or Atheist.

In the end, however, I returned to my long forgotten roots in Christianity. I am still not affiliated with any particular church within that broad domain but I suspect I will probably eventually join my local Seventh-Day Adventist church as they are a good group of people and I am comfortable with their church doctrines. That part of the journey is not yet complete. As for why I ultimately chose Christianity over the other variants possible that is a bit complex for now lets just say I felt it provided the best role model and blueprint for thought and action.

You feel my beliefs are the subjective code of the people who started my religion. We will just have to disagree on that. You have chosen not to believe in objective truth at all so you really can not imagine it any other way and I understand that.

I have long ago given up any expectation that I will shift you from your beliefs and I suspect that you have the same feelings about me. The value of our exchange therefore lies in it's usefulness to others. We represent two different paths that lead to dramatically different choices and life philosophies. Others at that fork may find our divergence useful and thought provoking. I agree that we are not that different. There but for the grace of God, go I.

I don't know what to tell you af_newbie. You are trapped by your false assumptions.

The answer of course is that the standards of objective morality and reality itself were laid down by God at the creation of the universe. Perhaps there is some way to arrive at an objective morality without embracing God but if that is possible I certainly don't know how to achieve it. You reject God so you reject objective morality that is understandable if tragic.

Gospel of Matthew
And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment."
— Matthew 22:35-40

There is a reason that the command to love God was explicitly stated as the most important. God provides a foundation upon which everything else can be built including objective morality. Rejecting God you drown in subjectivism which is ultimately a fatal ideology.

The Poison of Subjectivism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgcd6jvsCFs

All I can do is highlight the consequences of bad choices as a warning to revisit them. Health and fertility consequences are one such warning symptom. However, you may be like Astargath and don't care or would prefer living with consequence to changing your position. That is your right. Similarly you seem comfortable embracing the disastrous ideals of subjectivism which so clearly can lead only to death, ruin, and slavery rather then abandon the assumptions that demand and compel you down that path.

In the end we all have the power to define who and what we are. I do hope, however, that you fail in passing on your ignorance to your children. It would help if you could just stay out of education and the classrooms. Humanity will do better going forward without your poorly thought out and toxic beliefs.

Your error here is assuming technological advancement built on a foundation of moral subjectivism is progress. Such advancement taken to its logical conclusion and stripped of objective morality will ultimately make us all the slaves of nature not its master.

CS Lewis highlights this very well in his book the Abolition of Man.
This video on his work is fantastic and I highly recommend it.

The Abolition of Man
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=idgYLTnSzxI

Restraining science in a structure of objective morality will indeed slow it down. Things like the selling of aborted fetuses for research, human genetic engineering, voluntary self mutilation and many other frontiers of experimentation and knowledge will either be banned outright or very heavily restricted. That delay is well worth the cost.

The pursuit at all costs of power in the form of knowledge is ultimately a Faustian bargain.

than what about Einstein and Thomas Edison what about many other scientists
You can not blame religions for every thing happening in this world. You think religion is impeding progress and I think it’s the inequality which is spreading hate.

than you should search for the origin of science where started from and scientists who were involved were not secular nor etheist.

Also a twisted perspective it’s wrong but highlighting why it’s wrong is more complex then your earlier simpler errors. You have incorrectly assigned all historic progress to your preferred worldview.

As I said before you simply don’t understand the long term drivers of progress or the necessary conditions for science to develop and thrive over time. I touched on the necessity for morality and coordination in my earlier post: Religion and Progress.

However perhaps some other thinkers would help you understand this better.

Bruce Charlton is a scientist and academic professor. He discusses the ever growing corruption of the sciences and the fundamental reasons for it here:
https://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2018/09/my-experience-of-trying-to-reform.html?m=1

He also discusses how and why science succeeds and the difference between science and theology here:
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2011/06/what-is-difference-between-science-and.html?m=1

Finally John C. Wright an author and former atheist does an excellent job highlighting the relationship between Christianity and scientific progress over time here:
http://www.scifiwright.com/2012/04/science-romance-and-the-scientific-romance-of-christendom/

Ultimately it’s your choice incorporate the data available to you into a rational and coherent worldview or discard data that does not fit your preconceived construction of the world and live in error.

Good Luck

ehteist just want to eliminate religion from world which will never happen

The proper way to analyze this is to isolate the effect of religion independently of technological progress.

At each interval of history one should compare the life expectancy of Christians compared to non Christians.

If you do that you find that Christians live longer. This is true today.

Religious people live four YEARS longer than those who don’t believe in God, study reveals
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/science/religious-people-live-four-years-12704829.amp

It also appears to likely have been true as far back as early Roman times when Christian charity led to increased life expectancy social power and eventual cultural victory over the Pagans.

The Christian Conquest of Pagan Rome
https://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/michael-craven/the-christian-conquest-of-pagan-rome-11640691.html



Most if not all of current stem cell therapy is a scam. It’s an utterly unproven cash pay business that thrives on the vulnerable and desperate.

Much of what little research there is has been shown to be fraudulent a example of the corruption of science in our time.

Stem Cell Research—Shattered After Fabrication Scandal
https://www.tctmd.com/news/stem-cell-research-shattered-after-fabrication-scandal-needs-rebuild-says-ehj-editor

That said Christians are generally opposed to embryonic stem cell research as those lines were derived from aborted fetal tissue. Christians by and large don’t believe it is moral to experiment with the remains of killed human life.



You have this very very wrong. Every major study on the issue shows a health advantage for the observant religious. Here are a few I highlighted in the Health and Religion thread.

In U.S., Very Religious Have Higher Wellbeing Across All Faiths
http://www.gallup.com/poll/152732/religious-higher-wellbeing-across-faiths.aspx

Married Couples Who Attend Church Services Together Are Less Likely to Divorce
http://www.christianpost.com/news/married-couples-who-attend-church-services-together-are-less-likely-to-divorce-study-171853/

Religious upbringing may be protective factor for health, well-being in early adulthood
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2018/09/17/raising-kids-with-religion-or-spirituality-may-protect-their-mental-health-study/#68c6ba2c3287



Easy Christians do. Next question.



Global population growth rate is somewhere around 1%. It peaked long ago and is declining towards zero no outside intervention required.



The religious communities won’t grow at 4 to 5% forever. It’s just the process of the unhealthy segments of society being replaced by healthier variants. Overall the growth trajectory of the society at large is unlikely to change.


Atheists are for the moment more formally educated on average.

As for who would make a better manager, better policymaker, better scientist, better engineer, or better doctor. I would have go with the educated Christian or Jew. Best of both worlds.

I recommend putting some more work into understanding these issues af_newbie. I don’t have the time or inclination to continue tutoring like this. You need to rectify your own deficiencies.

yes you are right hiv spreads from fluid or serum but you are not pointing out the root cause from where it started. And what you are saying that religions does not stops but encourages it, how can you even say that when you don’t even know about religions. And what you are talking about science and 21 century so religions made laws to live many centuries  ago and science is following it. I feel pity for your thinking.

More than 54 million abortions have been performed since U.S. Supreme Court decided Roe v. Wade
https://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/mar/18/chris-smith/chris-smith-says-more-54-million-abortions-have-be/

Doctors Induce Twenty-Five Percent of Dutch Deaths
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/doctors-induce-twenty-five-percent-of-dutch-deaths/

U.S. Suicide Rate Surges to a 30-Year High
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/health/us-suicide-rate-surges-to-a-30-year-high.html

Prescription Drugs Outpace Car Accidents As Leading Cause Of Death
https://www.crchealth.com/find-a-treatment-center/opiate-addiction-treatment-centers/additional-resources/prescription-drugs-outpace-car-accidents-leading-death/

U.S. Life Expectancy Drops for Third Year in a Row
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/us-life-expectancy-drops-third-year-row-reflecting-rising-drug-overdose-suicide-rates-180970942/

I am not sure I want to know what your definition of not doing well would be.

If it makes you feel better af_newbie I have gotten out of your secular education and classrooms. My children are all enrolled in a private Christian school. It's an increase in cost over the secular system but worth every penny.  I have opted out of your religion. There is a better alternative.

It is always best to opt out of failing systems. In the economic world that means getting out of debt based fiat and into Bitcoin. In the educational world it means getting out of the failing public school systems and into private or home school environments.

Definition of Religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_religion

Profession Stackhouse isolated the issue the best. Like it or not af_newbie your humanist moral relativism qualifies. You have laid out a metaphysical subjective moral vision for us. I think your ideals will take us back in barbarism and evil and I highlighted why. You think your worldview is the way forward into progress and prosperity.

Time will of course reveal which of us is correct. In the meantime you and I and anyone else who happens to read this exchange will need to exercise free will and decide for themselves.
 

^^^ You are so good. After all, whatever religion a person has, he dies. So, if a person has a religion of selfishness, he still dies.

The trick is finding a religion that allows one to live forever. Obviously, such a religion isn't going to be in this life. Even scientifically, there is too much entropy involved in the universe, to keep the complexity of life from doing anything other than breaking down into death.

This is where God comes in to offer Jesus salvation. And that is what atheists hate. Why do they hate this? They want a religion where they are their own gods, to make their own salvation. Many atheists are dead from this already. Atheism is simply another false religion.

Most of the worst religions declare any faith other then their own as the source of all evil.

Your religion is no exception.

And what about the diseases spreading from this homosexuality thing can you justify that as well. What about AIDS, many people die every year due to this disease and you think homosexuality is right and i consider it as a murder of innocent people from this gay community. You are savages living lives without any clear rules and instructions just living it. What about rape, alcohol, child abuse, murder, terrorism and other many bad deeds from which religions stops human beings.

.....

Hey man, thanks for replying to some of my nonsense. This that you quoted of me here isn't is utter nonsense, however. ....(ftfy)

Why do you so erroneously think Trump is the only one? Consider Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 2. These things were predicted at least years before they happened. Some of the prediction hasn't been fulfilled yet.

The only person that is still saying that this is the American century is Donald J. Trump: I think the American empire is in its decline.

36“This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. 37You, O king Nebuchadnezzar, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; 38and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. 39But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. 41Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

Now relax, and remember Clint Eastwood in Pale Rider. Remember when Club (Richard Kiel) Attacked Clint and his buddy? When it was over, Clint was saying, "Put it in a little ice, that'll take care of it," as he helped Club to his horse. As Club and Josh rode away, you could hear Club saying, "Ice, ice."

Now, just the thought of "ice" Makes you feel better, don't it!