Topic: why do people agree to pay taxes? - page 116. (Read 51023 times)

My parent are statists, it is not until soon that I became libertarian and cared a minimum to economics. (Bitcoin drew me in the rabbit hole as well on the technical side than on the economic belief of some of its supporters)
I did not knew what was a libertarian at the start of 2014, and did not even know I could consider myself "statist" at this time.

Being a burden to society, means that you are living off subsidies and not providing any value.
Which is far from being my case. I live thanks to subsidies though.
I am an independent developer, largely self taught. My customers hire me not because they are obliged to, not because I am protected from competition, but because I make them earn time and money.
I never had a single day looking for customers, they all come from word of mouth. (not a single time until now, from 8 years ago, where I started working as independent and trainer during school instead of being intern)
Given my limited time, choosing a customer is a function of belief + $$$$ + flexibility. And when there is subsidies (training), $$$$ goes higher. I profit from these subsidies more than I am paying them.
And I will profit of all I can given my knowledge.

I also created the biggest open source .NET library for Bitcoin, NBitcoin which work on Windows, Android, and IOS plateform, that lots of entrepreneurs are using.

If you are interested on the technical side of Bitcoin, you can take a look at the numerous article I wrote.
https://github.com/NicolasDorier/NBitcoin (tip accepted, almost 1BTC of donation since the beginning)
This is the value I am adding to Bitcoin, and I will continue to do so for forseeable future. You can also hire me for technical training, feedback has always been great.

I prefer fighting with reason than parade, to which Libertarian gave me more coherent responses than statists. (If I respond with parades sometimes, it is just laziness to argument my points. When I do that I admit that I should keep my mouth shut. )
I'd like some coherent reasoning or historical example that explain me some limits of libertarians, but I have not seen Rothbard trapped yet, discussing on this forum is very instructive though.

If you want to prevent me profiting from the system, considering it "unjust and childish", you'll soon arrive at the conclusion that libertarianism is the only answer.

I'm starting to understand.  Your parents, the "Libertarians," decided in their wisdom that you didn't need no schoolin' at all.
Let me take up the slack and do some remedial schoolin' here.
Your illiteracy and ignorance hurt others around you.  You become what's colloquially known as "an embarrassing burden to society."  The likes of you do not contribute to economy but drain it - living on the fringes and at the expense of mankind.'

TL;DR: Education is required to get a jerb in this, the year of our Lord 2 naught candlestick 4. Without it, you wind up pretty much where you are now - spending your dole on Beanie Babies because freedoms.

This is where we differs. Who owns the land ? is it government or individual ? If you think that you have your word to say about what type of crops a farm man can grow on his own land (assuming no pollution impact in the broader sense), then you consider government as ultimate owner.
This is the main difference between capitalist and socialist thinking, and why we live in a socialist world while pointing its flaws as capitalist greed.
But let's assume that some land are private and some land are public (which is not true because of expropriation) and that you must pay for the public as well as for the private.

Public : The state got it by force through taxation or expropriation.
Private : The owner got it by exchanging his own work against it, with a buyer, both voluntarily.


The nice thing about Rothbard is that he lets no zone in the dark.

The national defense is here not to defend his inhabitant but to defend his government.
Conscription or civil wars are living proof of it. As an individual we have no incentive to kill someone we don't even know.
But each soldier do it because if he doesn't, he get killed by his own government.
As westerners, we are concerned about the military crackdown on protesters during the arab spring, while forgetting "our defense" would do the same.

Quoting Rothbard commenting on the state wars of todays compared to the middle age :
For the interested, here is the full link on the foreign policy of the libertarian by Rothbard at http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard84.html

In other words, merchant could continue their commerce with the enemy, and not being killed. The only thing that change for farmers and merchant is the person to which they will give their taxes.
Why should they fight for the king ?
Which is the real ultimate difference between 2 states.

It's mostly Russia that stopped the 3rd Reich, not the USA.

Indeed, it is convenient to leave out the half of history where Hitler self-destructed (in many ways, not just limited to invading Russia), and Japan's war hawks thought they could out-democide the US.

And who stopped the 3rd Reich? That happens to be another military from USA and Russia

Convenient to leave out half the story in your arguments huh?

Define "humanitarian mission", as the Third Reich and all other demociding militaries certainly thought they were being humanitarian, as everyone is always doing "the right thing" in their own minds no matter how evil it is.

Just imagine a world without militaries.  Oh yeah, that's irrelevant, just like posting a hypothetical and idealist world where there has never been a military.  ha!

The best use of a strong military force is to heal nations in need when we are at peace.  Humanitarian missions have saved millions but don't get the attention of errant bombs or drone strikes.

LOL @ militaries "defending" countries instead of mostly killing and crippling tons of innocent women and children and non-combatant foreigners.

There are some services that citizens benefit from regardless of if they want it or not. One example of this is national defense. There is no way that only 80% of people can receive this service because the military either defends the entire country or does not defend it at all

Also You misunderstood,you can organize political party,win on election and change tax system.Also you have easy way
For dont  pay tax.Sale all your real estate,car,clothes, quit a job,Registration on social services for food stamps and live free of tax.
Government has its own territory if you wont live on this territory you mast pay tax

Why is it so hard to understand that libertarians are not against paying for services, just against paying by compulsion ?
Let me pay for my school. Let me decide if my child need schools at all.

A contract assume two consenting person. But if you don't consent, you go to jail. This is not what I call a contract.

Paying taxes is part of a social contract.  I pay taxes and expect several things in return: security and an ever improving way of life, basically.  I had a neighbor that used to complain of paying taxes when the money went to schools and programs for school children.  I could have made the same complaint but you have to think about what that money is doing.  Putting kids through school enables adults to spend more time in the work force.  It educates children.  That's pretty much it.  I mean, that's just one example of many but you get the idea.  Also think about when new technologies such as the internet come along.  The internet is a new attack vector for pedophiles so you need law enforcement to handle it and that costs money.   

Lolwat?  Care to cite something specific, or are you seriously trying to get me to do your work for you?

I don't agree with all the taxes I pay, I simply have to obey the rules (most of the times) and pay.

And what do you do? Try and distract people from "clever ideas" which may just be true?

The facts are on my side. Only 1/3 of the income was tax income.

See for yourself:
http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/backissues.html

Early 90s called.  They want their website back.  ba dum chhh!

Just flew in from Chicago and boy are my arms tired.  But seriously tho folks, next time you want an authoritative primary source, you just post your clever ideas on your MySpace page & cite yourself til the cows come home.  Simple as pie.
You've been a great audience, good night bitcoin.  Rock on!

The government earns twice as much in investment income as it does in tax income [Source].

There are enough surpluses to eliminate taxes.

Now who looks like an idiot?

Supposedly this is the only unclaimed territory in Antarctica, or perhaps even the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Byrd_Land

So since the government doesn't control climate so that it isn't suicidal to try to live in particular places, we're back to "you are free to leave only by suicide, because every jurisdiction on earth is tyrannical".

Most of you people are idiots.


So let's say the U.S. marches on DC knocks out the old government and decides to replace that with a new government that doesn't charge you taxes...


who will pay for your defense?
who will pay for research?
who will pay for your roads?
who will pay for healthcare?
who will cover education?
who will pay for your infrastructure?


if you don't want to pay taxes your solution is simple. Renounce citizenship and go live in Antarctica or find somewhere else to make your own country. But good luck having anything.