why do people agree to pay taxes? - page 117.

Nicolas Dorier

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Quote from: phpTaskForce on December 30, 2014, 06:19:16 AM

This book probably gives answer to this topic
Rich Dad Poor Dad - Robert Kiyosaki

Agreed, very good book. And I adopt his answer actually. Robert Kiyosaki wrote great books, but after a while a keep repeating himself. Cheesy

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The solution is to have a constitution that protects the people. It used to be the case in the States.

Agreed, the constitution was a pragmatically response to such problems. But it did not work, and sadly I don't think somebody found an alternative.
As much as I like libertarianism and think the state should just disappear, I am conscious that a libertarian society does not compete with violence, and so will converge to a state as much as a constitution.

btcxyzzz

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Monero - secure, private and untraceable currency.

Thinks like Ethereum could heal this worlwide nonsenses.

picolo

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Quote from: murraypaul on October 16, 2014, 08:39:05 AM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on October 15, 2014, 09:00:36 PM

Quote from: MrBig on October 15, 2014, 08:36:12 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on October 15, 2014, 08:21:07 PM

the only reason this works is because the citizens are unorganized and unarmed.
if people gather in groups of tens of people to protect each other against the government there is no way they could throw anyone in jail.

Well then they would probably make an example of a few to intimidate the rest.

how will they do that if they have a million armed people marching on their jail.
there are millions of us and only a few thousand of them, its insane that people haven't gathered up and thrown those government thugs in a cage yet.

It has happened many times in history.
Those people then form a new government which, in time, turns out to be pretty similar to the old one.

The solution is to have a constitution that protects the people. It used to be the case in the States.

phpTaskForce

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This book probably gives answer to this topic
Rich Dad Poor Dad - Robert Kiyosaki

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

"Freeload" Roll Eyes

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=825433117500593&id=693477984029441

Son0fLamb

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Quote from: TheButterZone on December 29, 2014, 10:41:22 PM

Quote from: Son0fLamb on December 29, 2014, 10:32:59 PM

Quote from: STT on December 29, 2014, 09:58:22 PM

The point is that people can spend that money themselves more efficiently [etc., etc.]

What is it about "you are free to leave" that you find so difficult to grasp?

What is it about "you are free to leave only by suicide, because every jurisdiction on earth is tyrannical" that you find so difficult to grasp?

Why should I care that no other country will let you freeload either? Stop acting like some entitled emo drama queen. Suicide Roll Eyes

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: Son0fLamb on December 29, 2014, 10:32:59 PM

Quote from: STT on December 29, 2014, 09:58:22 PM

The point is that people can spend that money themselves more efficiently [etc., etc.]

What is it about "you are free to leave" that you find so difficult to grasp?

What is it about "you are free to leave only by suicide, because every jurisdiction on earth is tyrannical" that you pretend to find so difficult to grasp?

Son0fLamb

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Quote from: STT on December 29, 2014, 09:58:22 PM

The point is that people can spend that money themselves more efficiently [etc., etc.]

What is it about "you are free to leave" that you find so difficult to grasp?

@TheButterZone: eat a lot of wall candy when you were a kid?

http://s12.postimg.org/cmus81ih9/subg.jpg

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: deluxeCITY on December 29, 2014, 08:19:16 PM

Quote from: Silverspoon on December 29, 2014, 04:25:48 PM

Quote from: teukon on December 29, 2014, 04:12:34 PM

Quote from: Silverspoon on December 29, 2014, 03:56:52 PM

When you check into a hotel, do you say "I'm not gonna need those stupid pillow mints, i'm not even gonna use the bed, so you have no right to charge me for it"?

Living in a country is like that.

Checking into a hotel requires the consent of the customer. Being born in a country involves no such consent. The difference is night and day.

You didn't have a say in being born, and that's why your country owes you a living?
If you were born at my house, would you feel entitled to live in it without bothering to pay me rent? For that matter, do you feel that you have a right to homestead in the maternity ward of the hospital where you were born? Help me understand.

Right. I am sure all the people who are saying they should not have to pay any taxes are also going to complain when the government is no longer able to provide the kinds of services and protection that taxes pay for and they have gown accustomed to.

Violent criminals are most certainly going to complain when their government protectors can no longer afford to disarm their law-abiding, sane victims for them, and they start getting citizens arrested and/or shot.

STT

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The point is that people can spend that money themselves more efficiently not that they dont want security or welfare but there is something to be said for earning your own wage and providing for yourselves or at least within a community not ruled by a political majority thousands of miles away. Law administered remotely by strangers is far more likely to go awry and/or cost to excess over what that person or community could do themselves

The Swiss probably have the best system with more local control and only essentially national policy decided centrally like unfortunately their decision to fix currency to the Euro is a valid national policy and they did vote a referendum on it recently in a related way

deluxeCITY

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Quote from: Silverspoon on December 29, 2014, 04:25:48 PM

Quote from: teukon on December 29, 2014, 04:12:34 PM

Quote from: Silverspoon on December 29, 2014, 03:56:52 PM

When you check into a hotel, do you say "I'm not gonna need those stupid pillow mints, i'm not even gonna use the bed, so you have no right to charge me for it"?

Living in a country is like that.

Checking into a hotel requires the consent of the customer. Being born in a country involves no such consent. The difference is night and day.

You didn't have a say in being born, and that's why your country owes you a living?
If you were born at my house, would you feel entitled to live in it without bothering to pay me rent? For that matter, do you feel that you have a right to homestead in the maternity ward of the hospital where you were born? Help me understand.

Right. I am sure all the people who are saying they should not have to pay any taxes are also going to complain when the government is no longer able to provide the kinds of services and protection that taxes pay for and they have gown accustomed to.

Atdhe

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Atdhe Nuhiu

You are all pussies. Why do not you fight more? Those debates lead to nowhere. State had, has and will be the ones with power and endless debates what should or should not be right give even more power to the state.

If you do not want to pay taxes, just do not pay them. Make offshore account, offshore company, gain double residency or just risk it. It is your f**king life. Why is here bitcoin? For tax evasion indeed as well. So use it. Pay with it. Just please stop whinging. The stronger always eat the weaker. And the whingers are the weakest.

Silverspoon

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Quote from: Nicolas Dorier on December 29, 2014, 04:44:09 PM

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You didn't have a say in being born, and that's why your country owes you a living?
If you were born at my house, would you feel entitled to live in it without bothering to pay me rent? Help me understand.

The difference is that if I don't like your hospitality nor your rent, I am free to go elsewhere.

You are not free to leave France?

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The difference is that if you have a shit service, you'll go bankrupt and a better competitor will provide better services to me, as a customer. You will not be protected for your incompetence, which most public service are.

If you don't like my house, you can always go & try your luck elsewhere. I certainly won't try to stop you.

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By the way ? Why should I pay taxes on my land if I own it ? This is not the property of the state if I bought it ?

Not sure about French law, but buying land in US doesn't make you its absolute owner. It's sorta like buying an apartment in an apartment building.
You can't do whatever you want with your land (as you can't breed pigs in an apartment you "own"), and you certainly have to pay taxes (apartment maintenance fee).
In US, your land can also be taken from you to build a highway exit ramp, for instance. That's called "eminent domain."
So no, you really don't own your land any more than you own the sky above it (air rights).
I hope I've been able to clear up some confusion here.

picolo

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Quote from: teukon on December 29, 2014, 04:12:34 PM

Quote from: Silverspoon on December 29, 2014, 03:56:52 PM

When you check into a hotel, do you say "I'm not gonna need those stupid pillow mints, i'm not even gonna use the bed, so you have no right to charge me for it"?

Living in a country is like that.

Checking into a hotel requires the consent of the customer. Being born in a country involves no such consent. The difference is night and day.

You should not be owned by the State where you are born.

Nicolas Dorier

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Quote

You didn't have a say in being born, and that's why your country owes you a living?

This is all the contrary. My country does not owe me anything, but I don't owe it either.
"State owes you a living" means believing that the moral duty of others is to pay for you without their consent.
I and any libertarian do not ask for that. On the contrary.

But since I have no choice except paying or getting the subsidies in my pocket, I choose to the the latter, by working where they drive my wage above what the market would really offer.

Quote

You didn't have a say in being born, and that's why your country owes you a living?
If you were born at my house, would you feel entitled to live in it without bothering to pay me rent? Help me understand.

The difference is that if I don't like your hospitality nor your rent, I am free to go elsewhere.
The difference is that if you have a shit service, you'll go bankrupt and a better competitor will provide better services to me, as a customer. You will not be protected for your incompetence, which most public service are.
Also, why should I pay taxes on my land if I own it ? This is not the property of the state if I bought it. You can't compare the tax to a rent. A tax go to someone who does not own the place, by force.

Silverspoon

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Quote from: teukon on December 29, 2014, 04:12:34 PM

Quote from: Silverspoon on December 29, 2014, 03:56:52 PM

When you check into a hotel, do you say "I'm not gonna need those stupid pillow mints, i'm not even gonna use the bed, so you have no right to charge me for it"?

Living in a country is like that.

Checking into a hotel requires the consent of the customer. Being born in a country involves no such consent. The difference is night and day.

You didn't have a say in being born, and that's why your country owes you a living?
If you were born at my house, would you feel entitled to live in it without bothering to pay me rent? For that matter, do you feel that you have a right to homestead in the maternity ward of the hospital where you were born? Help me understand.

carlosiness

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it came from ancient times, when some guy lent money for poor people, he asked some fee. nowadays it is the same.

teukon

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Quote from: Silverspoon on December 29, 2014, 03:56:52 PM

When you check into a hotel, do you say "I'm not gonna need those stupid pillow mints, i'm not even gonna use the bed, so you have no right to charge me for it"?

Living in a country is like that.

Checking into a hotel requires the consent of the customer. Being born in a country involves no such consent. The difference is night and day.

Atdhe

sr. member

Activity: 326

Merit: 250

Atdhe Nuhiu

Well you can always leave just de iure and then stay in the country at least partially and enjoy the freeride via the already built infrastructure etc.

There are many possibilities like this. You canmake invoices for your company for example, that is in offshore paradise and the bankers then give you credit card which you can use for your personal spendings etc. Ppl have to be more creative.

Silverspoon

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Quote from: picolo on December 29, 2014, 01:39:01 PM

...
Let me quote you : You misunderstood. We are not against paying for services, we are against being forced to pay for a service that is protected from competition. Well said!

When you check into a hotel, do you say "I'm not gonna need those stupid pillow mints, i'm not even gonna use the bed, so you have no right to charge me for it"?

Living in a country is like that. The roads are already built, the army's already standing, cops already hired, even their shiny cruisers are already bought. The fact that you do not wish to use them is irrelevant, it's part and parcel of living in your country, no opt-out clause other than boring stuff like voting and shit.

If you don't like it, you are welcome to leave. Other than states like Soviet Russia, leaving your country is easy & painless.

Topic: why do people agree to pay taxes? - page 117. (Read 50995 times)