why do people agree to pay taxes? - page 121.

teukon

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Quote from: exoton on December 20, 2014, 12:00:47 PM

... if the government did not provide national security then the counrty would be vulnerable to invasion,...

Not necessarily. One could imagine a collection of competing defense contractors interacting with insurance companies to provide very efficient defense services to a significant number of high-profile clients. There would of course be some free-riding but it's far from clear that the situation is unworkable and, indeed, the inefficiency attributed to free-riders may turn out to be far less potent than the inefficiencies inherent to state-managed national security.

picolo

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Quote from: exoton on December 20, 2014, 12:00:47 PM

Quote from: picolo on December 20, 2014, 09:16:07 AM

Quote from: exoton on December 20, 2014, 06:10:24 AM

Quote from: botany on December 20, 2014, 01:50:06 AM

Quote from: xmasdobo on December 19, 2014, 01:04:46 PM

0 taxes always end up in unciviliced shitholes, same as way too many taxes.

Not always. Some of the oil rich countries in the Middle East have no personal taxes.
Some of them are great places to live and earn.

This is only because the country has assets that they can and do sell to pay for the expenses related to running the country and to provide the kinds of services that government provides to it's citizens.

There are few countries that are able to do this, and it is not realistic for any country to be able to do this infinitely as any asset is limited in quantity

Governments don't provide services to citizens like companies do. The state takes away money by force then use it for what they like and you are not treated as a client and you don't have the choice not to pay for the "services".

You are correct to say that citizens do not have any choice to pay for the services the government provides but the government does provide services that are needed and are beneficial to their citizens. A prime example of this is national security, if the government did not provide national security then the counrty would be vulnerable to invasion, and would likely be attacked/taken over by another country who would probably take away more of the invaded citizens' property/money

If there were no big states you wouldn't need protection against big states armies but you could secure the USA for 10% of what is spent right now. You don't need to invade 2 countries a year to protect yourself.

Other services that the government take care of end up costing twice as much as if people were paying for it due to the cost of collecting the taxes, the waste on administration, the lack of innovation and competition.

ndnh

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Quote from: Robert Paulson on October 15, 2014, 06:43:32 PM

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

And what? The armed forces will control the country, set up a government and impose taxes?

Taxes, are supposed to be a good thing as a whole. I mean when it is not excessively done. Social unrest is bad for everyone.

bitkilo

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I think if you and your mates grab guns and tell the government that your no longer paying any tax and to get fucked they will probably call it treason or similar and shoot you, or maybe just throw you in jail, either way not a good idea.

Agestorzrxx

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Because of government force people pay taxes.

exoton

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Quote from: picolo on December 20, 2014, 09:16:07 AM

Quote from: exoton on December 20, 2014, 06:10:24 AM

Quote from: botany on December 20, 2014, 01:50:06 AM

Quote from: xmasdobo on December 19, 2014, 01:04:46 PM

0 taxes always end up in unciviliced shitholes, same as way too many taxes.

Not always. Some of the oil rich countries in the Middle East have no personal taxes.
Some of them are great places to live and earn.

This is only because the country has assets that they can and do sell to pay for the expenses related to running the country and to provide the kinds of services that government provides to it's citizens.

There are few countries that are able to do this, and it is not realistic for any country to be able to do this infinitely as any asset is limited in quantity

Governments don't provide services to citizens like companies do. The state takes away money by force then use it for what they like and you are not treated as a client and you don't have the choice not to pay for the "services".

You are correct to say that citizens do not have any choice to pay for the services the government provides but the government does provide services that are needed and are beneficial to their citizens. A prime example of this is national security, if the government did not provide national security then the counrty would be vulnerable to invasion, and would likely be attacked/taken over by another country who would probably take away more of the invaded citizens' property/money

picolo

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Quote from: exoton on December 20, 2014, 06:10:24 AM

Quote from: botany on December 20, 2014, 01:50:06 AM

Quote from: xmasdobo on December 19, 2014, 01:04:46 PM

0 taxes always end up in unciviliced shitholes, same as way too many taxes.

Not always. Some of the oil rich countries in the Middle East have no personal taxes.
Some of them are great places to live and earn.

This is only because the country has assets that they can and do sell to pay for the expenses related to running the country and to provide the kinds of services that government provides to it's citizens.

There are few countries that are able to do this, and it is not realistic for any country to be able to do this infinitely as any asset is limited in quantity

Governments don't provide services to citizens like companies do. The state takes away money by force then use it for what they like and you are not treated as a client and you don't have the choice not to pay for the "services".

exoton

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Quote from: botany on December 20, 2014, 01:50:06 AM

Quote from: xmasdobo on December 19, 2014, 01:04:46 PM

0 taxes always end up in unciviliced shitholes, same as way too many taxes.

Not always. Some of the oil rich countries in the Middle East have no personal taxes.
Some of them are great places to live and earn.

This is only because the country has assets that they can and do sell to pay for the expenses related to running the country and to provide the kinds of services that government provides to it's citizens.

There are few countries that are able to do this, and it is not realistic for any country to be able to do this infinitely as any asset is limited in quantity

Atdhe

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Atdhe Nuhiu

Quote from: botany on December 20, 2014, 01:50:06 AM

Quote from: xmasdobo on December 19, 2014, 01:04:46 PM

0 taxes always end up in unciviliced shitholes, same as way too many taxes.

Not always. Some of the oil rich countries in the Middle East have no personal taxes.
Some of them are great places to live and earn.

1. oil and financial heavens are paradise
2. oil states may not have high taxes, but they have certainly high licence fees..which is another name for tax; same is that there are few countries, like Czech republic, that has quite low taxes, I think 19%, but there is mandatory expense for social security, pensions and health... those expenses are not called taxes, but since nobody can avoid them, it is taxes

Simply put "taxes" are much wider term than what is called taxes by states.

picolo

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Quote from: botany on December 20, 2014, 01:50:06 AM

Quote from: xmasdobo on December 19, 2014, 01:04:46 PM

0 taxes always end up in unciviliced shitholes, same as way too many taxes.

Not always. Some of the oil rich countries in the Middle East have no personal taxes.
Some of them are great places to live and earn.

They can be good but they are a desert and it's hot Grin

Quote from: xmasdobo on December 19, 2014, 01:04:46 PM

0 taxes always end up in unciviliced shitholes, same as way too many taxes.

If you have low taxes and a civil society with moral and wealth, people should be very happy. It used to be like that or close to it in the USA.

botany

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Quote from: xmasdobo on December 19, 2014, 01:04:46 PM

0 taxes always end up in unciviliced shitholes, same as way too many taxes.

Not always. Some of the oil rich countries in the Middle East have no personal taxes.
Some of them are great places to live and earn.

xmasdobo

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0 taxes always end up in unciviliced shitholes, same as way too many taxes.

NotLambchop

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Quote from: WhatsBitcoin on December 19, 2014, 01:32:40 AM

Curious to know, without going thru this whole thread, are there countries without taxes? Be interesting to hear about it if so.

In times of major upheavals. Somalia had no taxes or gun control for a while. Taxes are back, but I think you can still have as many AKs as you want.

picolo

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Quote from: Possum577 on December 19, 2014, 12:46:28 AM

Quote from: picolo on December 18, 2014, 07:17:40 AM

Quote from: tjwebb on December 18, 2014, 03:57:41 AM

> why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?

If you are in a country that allows you to vote, then you are the government. In most countries, you are free to leave. You can go to a country that doesn't collect taxes. Somalia, for example.

You can vote but if you only have the choice between candidates of the system that lie to be elected and say they are different, it is hard to change the way things are.

It is hard, but the advantage you have is that it's possible. All you need to do is rally people around one cause and make it happen.

If a million people, actually 1,000,000+ people, went to the capital building in DC demanding change...and DIDN'T leave with without change. Peaceful protest by EVERYONE, change would happen.

But most people don't understand that the root cause of all evil, waste and tyranny is Big Government, they see the government is helping the most powerful but fail to stop thinking that they need it to be protected against the powerful.

WhatsBitcoin

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Curious to know, without going thru this whole thread, are there countries without taxes? Be interesting to hear about it if so.

Possum577

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Loose lips sink sigs!

Quote from: picolo on December 18, 2014, 07:17:40 AM

Quote from: tjwebb on December 18, 2014, 03:57:41 AM

> why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?

If you are in a country that allows you to vote, then you are the government. In most countries, you are free to leave. You can go to a country that doesn't collect taxes. Somalia, for example.

You can vote but if you only have the choice between candidates of the system that lie to be elected and say they are different, it is hard to change the way things are.

It is hard, but the advantage you have is that it's possible. All you need to do is rally people around one cause and make it happen.

If a million people, actually 1,000,000+ people, went to the capital building in DC demanding change...and DIDN'T leave with without change. Peaceful protest by EVERYONE, change would happen.

picolo

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Quote from: NotLambchop on December 18, 2014, 09:32:44 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on December 18, 2014, 04:13:37 AM

...
No, those who count the votes are the government. No, you are not free to legally leave most countries without being taxed out the ass. No, Somalia collects taxes.

You can always go live under the sea...

You can live before you make any money not to give away too much in taxes.

NotLambchop

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Quote from: TheButterZone on December 18, 2014, 04:13:37 AM

...
No, those who count the votes are the government. No, you are not free to legally leave most countries without being taxed out the ass. No, Somalia collects taxes.

You can always go live under the sea...

picolo

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Quote from: tjwebb on December 18, 2014, 03:57:41 AM

> why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?

If you are in a country that allows you to vote, then you are the government. In most countries, you are free to leave. You can go to a country that doesn't collect taxes. Somalia, for example.

You can vote but if you only have the choice between candidates of the system that lie to be elected and say they are different, it is hard to change the way things are.

Amph

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Quote from: TheButterZone on December 18, 2014, 04:13:37 AM

Quote from: tjwebb on December 18, 2014, 03:57:41 AM

> why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?

If you are in a country that allows you to vote, then you are the government. In most countries, you are free to leave. You can go to a country that doesn't collect taxes. Somalia, for example.

No, those who count the votes are the government. No, you are not free to legally leave most countries without being taxed out the ass. No, Somalia collects taxes.

then you should start your own country, like someone did, and makes it free for all

Topic: why do people agree to pay taxes? - page 121. (Read 51023 times)