why do people agree to pay taxes? - page 122.

TheButterZone

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Quote from: tjwebb on December 18, 2014, 04:57:41 AM

> why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?

If you are in a country that allows you to vote, then you are the government. In most countries, you are free to leave. You can go to a country that doesn't collect taxes. Somalia, for example.

No, those who count the votes are the government. No, you are not free to legally leave most countries without being taxed out the ass. No, Somalia collects taxes.

tjwebb

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> why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?

If you are in a country that allows you to vote, then you are the government. In most countries, you are free to leave. You can go to a country that doesn't collect taxes. Somalia, for example.

Atdhe

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Atdhe Nuhiu

Quote from: picolo on December 16, 2014, 10:32:33 AM

Quote from: Atdhe on December 16, 2014, 08:54:27 AM

That is a big simplification. I avoid paying taxes as everyone, but if you do not mind go to some country where are very low taxes and it is not directly tax paradise benefiting from tax evasion and is not rich in natural resources. Like Paraguay, Somalia or even Bulgary.

Then you will have a problem not to destroy your car on unused roads and after you destroy it, you really do not want to go to hospital. Believe me. That is the other side than corruption, which is right as well. Taxes both support positive externalities and corruption.

But people do not pay taxes because they want want to support public projects, but because they are scared of penalties.

Singapore is an example of a developed country with lower taxes.

Developed countries became wealthy and grew when the taxes were very small.

Singapore is far from normal state. It is a city full of financial speculations and gate to SE Asia. Not everybody can be financial centre like Singapore or Switzerland (or London if it had independence). They proces transactions for other countries. The big part of economy is like a bank. World needs just few of those centres. With cc adoption maybe none.

dlowings

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Quote from: Robert Paulson on October 15, 2014, 07:43:32 PM

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

simple, the goverment like wolves pick off the sheep that are not running with an organized group .. They attack one at a time without desecration on who they target . Once they have demolished that person they hold him up as a spectacle for the rest of the group to see… It's called ruling by fear … We may not be a North Korea but most governments that claim to be civil are just a LOT better at how they carry their big stick of fear … If you look very closely you can see the level high of phycological warfare they have used to get what they want .. The US use to be the wild west, and the political folks stood up on stumps and preached "look at the lawlessness, we can help you" .. And over time, the wild west fell to the hand of politics… Our forefathers picked our evil . Man Vs. Man lawlessness, or Man Vs. The Political System … The Political system won out .. It is what it is, and we do our best to work within the confines of that system .

picolo

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Quote from: Atdhe on December 16, 2014, 08:54:27 AM

That is a big simplification. I avoid paying taxes as everyone, but if you do not mind go to some country where are very low taxes and it is not directly tax paradise benefiting from tax evasion and is not rich in natural resources. Like Paraguay, Somalia or even Bulgary.

Then you will have a problem not to destroy your car on unused roads and after you destroy it, you really do not want to go to hospital. Believe me. That is the other side than corruption, which is right as well. Taxes both support positive externalities and corruption.

But people do not pay taxes because they want want to support public projects, but because they are scared of penalties.

Singapore is an example of a developed country with lower taxes.

Developed countries became wealthy and grew when the taxes were very small.

Atdhe

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Activity: 326

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Atdhe Nuhiu

That is a big simplification. I avoid paying taxes as everyone, but if you do not mind go to some country where are very low taxes and it is not directly tax paradise benefiting from tax evasion and is not rich in natural resources. Like Paraguay, Somalia or even Bulgary.

Then you will have a problem not to destroy your car on unused roads and after you destroy it, you really do not want to go to hospital. Believe me. That is the other side than corruption, which is right as well. Taxes both support positive externalities and corruption.

But people do not pay taxes because they want want to support public projects, but because they are scared of penalties.

picolo

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Quote from: cryptoforcause on December 16, 2014, 02:50:15 AM

Taxes are extremely important for a country's economy i guess this is the major reason why people agree to pay taxes.

Taxes are a burden on the real Economy that produce wealth. They are usually mainly used for corruption, Big Government and useless spending. The politicians will tell the people they will give it back to them and people think they will have a net gain so they are in favor of higher taxes.

cryptoforcause

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Taxes are extremely important for a country's economy i guess this is the major reason why people agree to pay taxes.

picolo

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Quote from: NotLambchop on December 15, 2014, 09:12:10 AM

Quote from: bf4btc on December 15, 2014, 02:59:17 AM

...
The majority of taxes are really nothing more then transfer payments that are designed to take from the successful and give to the lazy (aka "poor")

Exactly what the rich want, you mean.
You don't think that the lazy poor somehow managed to become the ruling elite in position to levy taxes, do you?

Taxes are not used on poor, they are used on the cost of having a Big government and they profit the rich first.
You don't think people elected will help the poor, do you?

NotLambchop

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Quote from: bf4btc on December 15, 2014, 02:59:17 AM

...
The majority of taxes are really nothing more then transfer payments that are designed to take from the successful and give to the lazy (aka "poor")

Exactly what the rich want, you mean.
You don't think that the lazy poor somehow managed to become the ruling elite in position to levy taxes, do you?

bf4btc

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Quote from: notbatman on December 08, 2014, 12:32:46 AM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on October 16, 2014, 07:25:33 AM

Because if for X reasons you lose your wealth and you become old and shit on your bedclothes, they can help you with the taxed money. It's called socialism aka common sense.

The banks get 99% of the tax money where special families who are above the law and can do whatever they please no matter what get to spend it on what ever they desire. Grandma's pension makes of 1/1000 of a % of the remainder.

The banks actually pay a lot of taxes and really do not get any tax money.

The majority of taxes are really nothing more then transfer payments that are designed to take from the successful and give to the lazy (aka "poor")

notbatman

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on October 16, 2014, 07:25:33 AM

Because if for X reasons you lose your wealth and you become old and shit on your bedclothes, they can help you with the taxed money. It's called socialism aka common sense.

The banks get 99% of the tax money where special families who are above the law and can do whatever they please no matter what get to spend it on what ever they desire. Grandma's pension makes of 1/1000 of a % of the remainder.

bf4btc

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Smoke weed everyday!

Quote from: botany on December 06, 2014, 08:18:52 AM

Quote from: opossum on December 05, 2014, 07:34:05 PM

Quote from: bl4kjaguar on December 05, 2014, 01:29:39 PM

Quote from: Possum577 on December 05, 2014, 04:42:59 AM

IF the US voters assembled they could vote to have very little to no taxes, of course that would result in the disappearance of all services we have, which would lead to some chaos pretty quickly.

That is false.

The government has more than enough surpluses to eliminate taxation; this was mentioned and proven earlier in the thread.

What are you talking about Huh

the US government is spending several hundred million more then it is taking in via taxes every year. The government does have some assets but nowhere near enough to cover all of it's expenses over even a short period.

Liquidating assets is a short term solution to finance the deficit.
What would the government do when it has no more assets to sell?

There is nothing they can do. They would need to borrow money, but if they are not receiving any revenue via taxation then no one will lend to them (how would the lender ever get paid back)

worle1bm

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Quote from: bl4kjaguar on December 05, 2014, 01:29:39 PM

Quote from: Possum577 on December 05, 2014, 04:42:59 AM

IF the US voters assembled they could vote to have very little to no taxes, of course that would result in the disappearance of all services we have, which would lead to some chaos pretty quickly.

That is false.

The government has more than enough surpluses to eliminate taxation; this was mentioned and proven earlier in the thread.

Oh good, a bunch of amateur Austrians on a random internet forum have solved the fiduciary problems facing the government. Now solve cancer!

What a joke.

TheButterZone

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Quote from: Possum577 on December 07, 2014, 03:43:06 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on December 05, 2014, 06:08:11 AM

Good, you have bought into the illusion that our votes count, and not those who count the votes.

If voting could change anything for the better of everyone, it would be a capital offense.

You're cynical, it's ok, it's understandable. Government, more specifically politicians, give us a lot to be jaded about.

But, you're wrong (I say this with respect).

The system is driven by the vote. If we organized the ballot measure (which isn't hard) and the people voted for it the government would be legally required to enforce it.

How do you think the recreational use of marijuana becomes LEGAL in Colorado, Washington, Oregon, and Washington D.C.?

It's not a capital offense, it's the People's system. It's beautiful. It only has one flaw, people have to organize and vote for it.

Of course MJ was allowed to pass! The government can rake in fucktons of taxes from it, while still killing and maiming victimless criminals like Eric Garner who don't pay the piper. Elections are decided in the government's best interest, not peasants'. The only way to deny this is to claim implicit armed robbery and innocent bloodshed under color of law are doubleplusgood.

Possum577

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Quote from: bl4kjaguar on December 05, 2014, 01:29:39 PM

Quote from: Possum577 on December 05, 2014, 04:42:59 AM

IF the US voters assembled they could vote to have very little to no taxes, of course that would result in the disappearance of all services we have, which would lead to some chaos pretty quickly.

That is false.

The government has more than enough surpluses to eliminate taxation; this was mentioned and proven earlier in the thread.

Yeah, and then the government spends all that surplus and all services disappear. Come on, man, think further than two months down the road.

You must not realize that in the US currently the government only has until Dec. 12th of this year (that's like 5 days from today) of money left to cover the expenses of the services. After the 12th Congress has to authorize the access to more funds. And that surplus you mention is actually owed...it would be eliminated by the National debt.

Possum577

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Quote from: TheButterZone on December 05, 2014, 06:08:11 AM

Good, you have bought into the illusion that our votes count, and not those who count the votes.

If voting could change anything for the better of everyone, it would be a capital offense.

You're cynical, it's ok, it's understandable. Government, more specifically politicians, give us a lot to be jaded about.

But, you're wrong (I say this with respect).

The system is driven by the vote. If we organized the ballot measure (which isn't hard) and the people voted for it the government would be legally required to enforce it.

How do you think the recreational use of marijuana becomes LEGAL in Colorado, Washington, Oregon, and Washington D.C.?

It's not a capital offense, it's the People's system. It's beautiful. It only has one flaw, people have to organize and vote for it.

picolo

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: bitcoinmining on December 02, 2014, 09:13:56 PM

Quote from: Gianluca95 on November 30, 2014, 03:33:03 PM

People pay taxes to create a good place for live (with services like hospital, police ecc.). But in many country this isn't possible. I would like to live in the North of Europe, where there is very civilization (and very beautiful woman Grin

).

Yes you're right Northern Europe's women are beautiful; but people don't gain what they deserve. When I was in Romania three years ago, it was devastating for me to learn that general practitioner doctor gains 800 Euro as a salary Shocked

€800 Is not that bad. Try going to Bulgaria they are paying even less from what I heard.

People pay taxes because they are forced to and they support taxes because they are mistakenly thinking they will get back something positive from it or that it is necessary

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

My answer: TO avoid seizing of my assets.

The lesser of two evils. Although if I had a choice to pay my taxes and not be penalized if I didn't, I would choose not to pay them in the way they are designed today.

I would use the older model of tax paying from prior to the income tax (before 1913 or so).

Nicolas Dorier

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Quote from: botany on December 06, 2014, 08:18:52 AM

Quote from: opossum on December 05, 2014, 07:34:05 PM

Quote from: bl4kjaguar on December 05, 2014, 01:29:39 PM

Quote from: Possum577 on December 05, 2014, 04:42:59 AM

IF the US voters assembled they could vote to have very little to no taxes, of course that would result in the disappearance of all services we have, which would lead to some chaos pretty quickly.

That is false.

The government has more than enough surpluses to eliminate taxation; this was mentioned and proven earlier in the thread.

What are you talking about Huh

the US government is spending several hundred million more then it is taking in via taxes every year. The government does have some assets but nowhere near enough to cover all of it's expenses over even a short period.

Liquidating assets is a short term solution to finance the deficit.
What would the government do when it has no more assets to sell?

Firing public workers... sorry just dreaming aloud.

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