why do people agree to pay taxes? - page 126.

TheButterZone

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Quote from: bf4btc on November 27, 2014, 02:12:46 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 25, 2014, 09:41:10 PM

Every single government does engage in human rights violations, and then immunizes itself via the law and/or kangaroo courts, in bad faith. Every "democracy" on earth refuses to conduct E2EE verifiable elections, which ensures the worst possible evil (that counts the votes, pays the judges and enforcers) cannot be defeated.

Stop rejecting reality and substituting your own utopia.

Engaging in "verifiable" elections would likely result in many people not being able to vote as the process would be much too complicated. You need to remember that everyone has the right to vote not just the people who are educated or who are smart enough how to figure out the process.

So now it's too hard to have a legitimate election? LMFAO, cry me a river of BS excuses!

bf4btc

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Smoke weed everyday!

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 25, 2014, 09:41:10 PM

Every single government does engage in human rights violations, and then immunizes itself via the law and/or kangaroo courts, in bad faith. Every "democracy" on earth refuses to conduct E2EE verifiable elections, which ensures the worst possible evil (that counts the votes, pays the judges and enforcers) cannot be defeated.

Stop rejecting reality and substituting your own utopia.

Engaging in "verifiable" elections would likely result in many people not being able to vote as the process would be much too complicated. You need to remember that everyone has the right to vote not just the people who are educated or who are smart enough how to figure out the process.

pattu1

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Quote from: teukon on November 25, 2014, 09:00:33 PM

Quote from: opossum on November 25, 2014, 06:23:52 PM

It is really more about the rule of law and what is good for society as a whole. When the government imposes taxes on it's citizens, it is effectively forcing them to pay for things that is good for society as a whole.

How can we know when a thing is "good for society as a whole"?

Just try to speculate what would happen if that thing did not exist.
What would happen if there were no taxes and hence no roads were built, no police force was around, etc..

TheButterZone

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Quote from: opossum on November 25, 2014, 09:11:24 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 25, 2014, 06:39:14 PM

Quote from: opossum on November 25, 2014, 06:23:52 PM

Quote from: Atdhe on November 20, 2014, 09:57:37 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on October 15, 2014, 06:43:32 PM

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

It is "ok", because government has power. And the ones who have the most power simply can do what they want, because they can. That is power of the definition.

It is not just about governments, it happens across human society. Who has power is the one who has the freedom to use it or not. And the people with power who do not use it lose to other people who use the power, so it is only logical that we are all the time at the edge of totalitarian states.

If a group of people whats to oppose government they need sources in the first place. And the sources would be again something like taxes. It can not be voluntary fee, because most people behave that they want free ride. So this is why every revolution against government will fail, because the new opposition will in short time become the same system abusing power.

It is really more about the rule of law and what is good for society as a whole. When the government imposes taxes on it's citizens, it is effectively forcing them to pay for things that is good for society as a whole.

Systemic, unbridled human rights violations are not good for society as a whole.

Most governments do not engage in this kind of behavior. Most governments will attempt to spend their tax dollars on the good of society in good faith. Also most modern day governments that levy taxes are going to be a democracy so if they are not spending they tax revenue effectively the government will be voted out.

Every single government does engage in human rights violations, and then immunizes itself via the law and/or kangaroo courts, in bad faith. Every "democracy" on earth refuses to conduct E2EE verifiable elections, which ensures the worst possible evil (that counts the votes, pays the judges and enforcers) cannot be defeated.

Stop rejecting reality and substituting your own utopia.

opossum

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Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 25, 2014, 06:39:14 PM

Quote from: opossum on November 25, 2014, 06:23:52 PM

Quote from: Atdhe on November 20, 2014, 09:57:37 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on October 15, 2014, 06:43:32 PM

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

It is "ok", because government has power. And the ones who have the most power simply can do what they want, because they can. That is power of the definition.

It is not just about governments, it happens across human society. Who has power is the one who has the freedom to use it or not. And the people with power who do not use it lose to other people who use the power, so it is only logical that we are all the time at the edge of totalitarian states.

If a group of people whats to oppose government they need sources in the first place. And the sources would be again something like taxes. It can not be voluntary fee, because most people behave that they want free ride. So this is why every revolution against government will fail, because the new opposition will in short time become the same system abusing power.

It is really more about the rule of law and what is good for society as a whole. When the government imposes taxes on it's citizens, it is effectively forcing them to pay for things that is good for society as a whole.

Systemic, unbridled human rights violations are not good for society as a whole.

Most governments do not engage in this kind of behavior. Most governments will attempt to spend their tax dollars on the good of society in good faith. Also most modern day governments that levy taxes are going to be a democracy so if they are not spending they tax revenue effectively the government will be voted out.

teukon

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Quote from: opossum on November 25, 2014, 06:23:52 PM

It is really more about the rule of law and what is good for society as a whole. When the government imposes taxes on it's citizens, it is effectively forcing them to pay for things that is good for society as a whole.

How can we know when a thing is "good for society as a whole"?

TheButterZone

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Merit: 1032

RIP Mommy

Quote from: opossum on November 25, 2014, 06:23:52 PM

Quote from: Atdhe on November 20, 2014, 09:57:37 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on October 15, 2014, 06:43:32 PM

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

It is "ok", because government has power. And the ones who have the most power simply can do what they want, because they can. That is power of the definition.

It is not just about governments, it happens across human society. Who has power is the one who has the freedom to use it or not. And the people with power who do not use it lose to other people who use the power, so it is only logical that we are all the time at the edge of totalitarian states.

If a group of people whats to oppose government they need sources in the first place. And the sources would be again something like taxes. It can not be voluntary fee, because most people behave that they want free ride. So this is why every revolution against government will fail, because the new opposition will in short time become the same system abusing power.

It is really more about the rule of law and what is good for society as a whole. When the government imposes taxes on it's citizens, it is effectively forcing them to pay for things that is good for society as a whole.

Systemic, unbridled human rights violations are not good for society as a whole.

opossum

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Atdhe on November 20, 2014, 09:57:37 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on October 15, 2014, 06:43:32 PM

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

It is "ok", because government has power. And the ones who have the most power simply can do what they want, because they can. That is power of the definition.

It is not just about governments, it happens across human society. Who has power is the one who has the freedom to use it or not. And the people with power who do not use it lose to other people who use the power, so it is only logical that we are all the time at the edge of totalitarian states.

If a group of people whats to oppose government they need sources in the first place. And the sources would be again something like taxes. It can not be voluntary fee, because most people behave that they want free ride. So this is why every revolution against government will fail, because the new opposition will in short time become the same system abusing power.

It is really more about the rule of law and what is good for society as a whole. When the government imposes taxes on it's citizens, it is effectively forcing them to pay for things that is good for society as a whole.

Atdhe

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Atdhe Nuhiu

Quote from: Robert Paulson on October 15, 2014, 06:43:32 PM

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

It is "ok", because government has power. And the ones who have the most power simply can do what they want, because they can. That is power of the definition.

It is not just about governments, it happens across human society. Who has power is the one who has the freedom to use it or not. And the people with power who do not use it lose to other people who use the power, so it is only logical that we are all the time at the edge of totalitarian states.

If a group of people whats to oppose government they need sources in the first place. And the sources would be again something like taxes. It can not be voluntary fee, because most people behave that they want free ride. So this is why every revolution against government will fail, because the new opposition will in short time become the same system abusing power.

Eisenhower34

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Quote from: Robert Paulson on November 18, 2014, 03:34:56 PM

Quote from: ScreamnShout on November 17, 2014, 11:35:54 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on November 17, 2014, 05:40:11 PM

Quote from: RodeoX on November 17, 2014, 04:27:11 PM

Quote from: notme on November 17, 2014, 03:01:10 PM

Quote from: RodeoX on November 17, 2014, 11:32:05 AM

A lot of people here find taxes tyrannical. But who will commit to not using the services they pay for? That would strengthen the case for not paying. I can respect that. If you are using all the benefits of taxation but not paying, then you are just sticking your bills to another person who will have to make up for you. I can't respect that.

I don't mind paying my share, but I want the government to go after dead beats if it means I will have to pay for them.

The problem isn't all services and all taxes. The problem is the cruise missiles that cost $1 million each, and all the other military hardware that only makes us less safe. Our enemy has become a body of ideas, and by waging a war of force, we are creating more orphans, who are the most vulnerable to radicalization.

I'm with you on that bro! For me there is a difference between the idea of taxation and how it is spent.

now imagine if there was no taxation and you could control 100% what you are funding when you give the government money.
and if they abuse your money you don't give it to them anymore.
what a world that would be, where the government is held 100% accountable to the people who finance it.

This would not work. We would encounter a tragedy of the commons and no one would pay any taxes but everyone would expect to receive the services that the government provides

no one expects to get free shoes or cars or houses why would people expect to get a free service?
people today buy a bunch of insurance policies they don't even need and you want to tell me they won't spend anything on things like national defense?
if anything they'll spend more than they can afford to.

The services that the government provides are not free, they are paid for by the taxes that citizens pay. The services are also not able to be reasonably purchased by individuals (or even medium sized groups of people) like national defense, food safety, police/fire protection ect.

NotLambchop

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Quote from: bl4kjaguar on November 20, 2014, 04:13:39 PM

...
This topic is overflowing with disinformation.

Former US President George Bush Admits Income Taxes are Voluntary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

bl4kjaguar

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Former IRS Head Steve Miller Admits Income Taxes are Voluntary
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4455340/former-irs-head-steve-miller-admits-income-taxes-voluntary
Former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid Admits Income Taxes are Voluntary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mRSI8yWwg

Of course, it all depends on where you get your information.

Take a look at what Snopes.com says about this:
http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/voluntary.asp

This topic is overflowing with disinformation.

jeffersonian2012

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I don't think people like paying taxes, especially the income tax, but we are forced to do it. People's laziness or fear outweighs their dislike of paying taxes too. They don't want to fight against the state because of fear for what the state might do to them. The most disgusting thing to me is getting my paycheck and seeing how much money I've been robbed of from the government claiming to do good.

NotLambchop

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Quote from: worhiper_-_ on November 20, 2014, 02:29:13 AM

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 18, 2014, 08:27:59 AM

Quote from: evok3d on November 18, 2014, 07:43:40 AM

...
The same reason they think fluoride is good for their teeth, the government "would never hurt them" ...

~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

Conspiracy theorist starter kit.

Re. your Starter Kit:
The product has been found to contain cheap ersatz aluminum foil, not the scientifically tested and approved genuine tin foil.
Only genuine tin foil is certified to withstand the full spectrum of known mind-control radiation.

~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: teukon on November 20, 2014, 04:42:56 AM

Quote from: bornil267645 on November 20, 2014, 12:01:45 AM

It's the only way to give something to the community in which you live in. So why shouldn't you?

What about charity?

Taxes should be raised to the point where nobody can afford to contribute a single cent or second of time to charity.

teukon

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Quote from: bornil267645 on November 20, 2014, 12:01:45 AM

It's the only way to give something to the community in which you live in. So why shouldn't you?

What about charity?

worhiper_-_

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Quote from: NotLambchop on November 18, 2014, 08:27:59 AM

Quote from: evok3d on November 18, 2014, 07:43:40 AM

...
The same reason they think fluoride is good for their teeth, the government "would never hurt them" ...

~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

Conspiracy theorist starter kit.

BentleyBirch

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i'm not agree/ but i can under those people who agree to it, just not like anonymous

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: bornil267645 on November 20, 2014, 12:01:45 AM

It's the only way to give something to the community in which you live in. So why shouldn't you?

Because it isn't the only way.

bornil267645

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AltoCenter.com

It's the only way to give something to the community in which you live in. So why shouldn't you?

Topic: why do people agree to pay taxes? - page 126. (Read 51023 times)