why do people agree to pay taxes? - page 132.

TheButterZone

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 1032

RIP Mommy

Quote from: nomadcrypto on November 08, 2014, 05:01:40 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that roads used to be funded and constructed by businesses, so you could patronize them without having to change your flat tires.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the existence of volunteer fire/medic departments, and that you sometimes get billed, in addition to the taxes you already pay, if you use "the government's" public safety employees/contractors.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the hundreds of trash companies that bill you for trash pickup, if you don't want to pay to drive your waste directly into the dump.

Do we need those things? In some sense yes we do but does the requirement for those things also come at the cost of actual freedom? If so that is a pretty heavy cost for a road.

Statists' "logic" seems to be that absolutely no freedom is ever lost at the hands of government, or that even if it is, being a tax slave is 100% worth it despite any/all evidence to the contrary.

Can't fix evil masquerading as ignorant. Ignore/block, move on.

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 04:42:02 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 08, 2014, 04:29:44 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that roads used to be funded and constructed by businesses, so you could patronize them without having to change your flat tires.

ORLY? Other than access roads? When/where was this? Be specific.

Sources for people who won't feign ignorance after reading them:

Daniel Klein and John Majewski, "America's Toll Roads Heritage" in Street Smart: Competition, Entrepreneurship, and the Future of Roads, ed. Gabriel Roth (New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction Publishers, 2006). See also Daniel B. Klein and John Majewski, "Turnpikes and Toll Roads in Nineteenth-Century America," February 5, 2010
...

Lol, stopped right there. Of course private and toll roads exist. Alongside government-funded roads. I even had my own driveway paved once. And referencing some d00d's school papers is pretty weak--might as well say "I did a social studies report I got an A on and posted on teh web."

How about something a bit less obscure?

Edit re. second citation:

Nice trolling there, champ Roll Eyes

nomadcrypto

sr. member

Activity: 387

Merit: 264

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that roads used to be funded and constructed by businesses, so you could patronize them without having to change your flat tires.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the existence of volunteer fire/medic departments, and that you sometimes get billed, in addition to the taxes you already pay, if you use "the government's" public safety employees/contractors.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the hundreds of trash companies that bill you for trash pickup, if you don't want to pay to drive your waste directly into the dump.

Do we need those things? In some sense yes we do but does the requirement for those things also come at the cost of actual freedom? If so that is a pretty heavy cost for a road.

TheButterZone

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 1032

RIP Mommy

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 08, 2014, 04:29:44 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that roads used to be funded and constructed by businesses, so you could patronize them without having to change your flat tires.

ORLY? Other than access roads? When/where was this? Be specific.

Sources for people who won't feign ignorance after reading them:

Daniel Klein and John Majewski, "America's Toll Roads Heritage" in Street Smart: Competition, Entrepreneurship, and the Future of Roads, ed. Gabriel Roth (New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction Publishers, 2006). See also Daniel B. Klein and John Majewski, "Turnpikes and Toll Roads in Nineteenth-Century America," February 5, 2010

Rees Jeffreys, The King's Highway (London: Batchworth Press, 1949)

Daniel B. Klein and John Majewski, "Economy, Community, and Law: The Turnpike Movement in New York, 1797-1845," in Law and Society Review 26 (1992)

Quote from: worle1bm on November 08, 2014, 04:37:24 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:54:43 PM

Quote from: worle1bm on November 08, 2014, 03:45:59 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that roads used to be funded and constructed by businesses, so you could patronize them without having to change your flat tires.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the existence of volunteer fire/medic departments, and that you sometimes get billed, in addition to the taxes you already pay, if you use "the government's" public safety employees/contractors.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the hundreds of trash companies that bill you for trash pickup, if you don't want to pay to drive your waste directly into the dump.

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that the vast majority of infrastructure projects were and are publicly funded.

... after government usurped the liberty and ultimate authority of private entities to fund infrastructure themselves (without corporate-government bribery).

<3 Stockholm syndrome.

So you, or a private company, are no longer allowed to fund infrastructure?

Not without bribery (and bribery by every other name).

<3 defending the indefensible.

worle1bm

full member

Activity: 1834

Merit: 166

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:54:43 PM

Quote from: worle1bm on November 08, 2014, 03:45:59 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that roads used to be funded and constructed by businesses, so you could patronize them without having to change your flat tires.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the existence of volunteer fire/medic departments, and that you sometimes get billed, in addition to the taxes you already pay, if you use "the government's" public safety employees/contractors.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the hundreds of trash companies that bill you for trash pickup, if you don't want to pay to drive your waste directly into the dump.

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that the vast majority of infrastructure projects were and are publicly funded.

... after government usurped the liberty and ultimate authority of private entities to fund infrastructure themselves (without corporate-government bribery).

<3 Stockholm syndrome.

So you, or a private company, are no longer allowed to fund infrastructure? Weird. You've completely fabricated that to support a poor argument.

<3 strawmen arguments and misused psychological conditions

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that roads used to be funded and constructed by businesses, so you could patronize them without having to change your flat tires.

ORLY? Other than access roads? When/where was this? Be specific.

TheButterZone

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 1032

RIP Mommy

Quote from: worle1bm on November 08, 2014, 03:45:59 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that roads used to be funded and constructed by businesses, so you could patronize them without having to change your flat tires.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the existence of volunteer fire/medic departments, and that you sometimes get billed, in addition to the taxes you already pay, if you use "the government's" public safety employees/contractors.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the hundreds of trash companies that bill you for trash pickup, if you don't want to pay to drive your waste directly into the dump.

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that the vast majority of infrastructure projects were and are publicly funded.

... after government usurped the liberty and ultimate authority of private entities to fund infrastructure themselves (without corporate-government bribery).

<3 Stockholm syndrome.

Tsquared

hero member

Activity: 500

Merit: 501

http://digitalcoin.org/

There is a cost to the comforts and security we require as a society. We can argue if that cost is fair, or if money is spent wisely, but some form of contribution to the operation of communal services is a requirement for the success of every community, large or small.

TT

worle1bm

full member

Activity: 1834

Merit: 166

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that roads used to be funded and constructed by businesses, so you could patronize them without having to change your flat tires.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the existence of volunteer fire/medic departments, and that you sometimes get billed, in addition to the taxes you already pay, if you use "the government's" public safety employees/contractors.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the hundreds of trash companies that bill you for trash pickup, if you don't want to pay to drive your waste directly into the dump.

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that the vast majority of infrastructure projects were and are publicly funded.

TheButterZone

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 1032

RIP Mommy

Yes, everyone, let's ignore that roads used to be funded and constructed by businesses, so you could patronize them without having to change your flat tires.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the existence of volunteer fire/medic departments, and that you sometimes get billed, in addition to the taxes you already pay, if you use "the government's" public safety employees/contractors.
Yes, everyone, let's ignore the hundreds of trash companies that bill you for trash pickup, if you don't want to pay to drive your waste directly into the dump.

nomadcrypto

sr. member

Activity: 387

Merit: 264

I am no legal expert but I have a strong belief, whether grounded in fact or not, that the entire system I live in is a kind of illegal agreement. Combining taxes with the monetary system I am forced to use and a political system that does not properly represent my concerns makes this usury in nature. I was never given the chance to make an informed choice. I was born into it.

BTCmoons

full member

Activity: 173

Merit: 100

Quote from: Nicolas Dorier on November 08, 2014, 09:58:01 AM

Quote from: Tsquared on November 08, 2014, 08:33:27 AM

There are services that I expect to be available in my community, roads need maintained, fires need put out, trash needs to be picked up. If I had the time to do one of these jobs I'd expect to be paid for my work. Since I don't have the time, I expect others to do this work for me, and I have to pay my share so that these folks can feed their families.

TT

Why do you think that government intervention is necessary for such services ?
Why do you think private business can't be more efficient for that than a bureaucrat ?

There are some services that the government must realistically provide as either the services are not needed often enough by individuals (like fire protection) or that individuals cannot realistically purchase individually (like national defense).

There are many services that the government provides that are contracted to private companies (like road construction)

neurotypical

hero member

Activity: 672

Merit: 503

Quote from: Robert Paulson on November 08, 2014, 10:41:26 AM

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 08, 2014, 10:04:11 AM

Quote from: Nicolas Dorier on November 08, 2014, 09:58:01 AM

Quote from: Tsquared on November 08, 2014, 08:33:27 AM

There are services that I expect to be available in my community, roads need maintained, fires need put out, trash needs to be picked up. If I had the time to do one of these jobs I'd expect to be paid for my work. Since I don't have the time, I expect others to do this work for me, and I have to pay my share so that these folks can feed their families.

TT

Why do you think that government intervention is necessary for such services ?
Why do you think private business can't be more efficient for that than a bureaucrat ?

Because the entire history of mankind?

the entire history of mankind had a monarchy, so if we follow your logic we should have a monarch not a government.

Humans are prone to corruption when they have power. Now what's worse, the power that the state gives to the goverments, or the power that the monetary elites could have in a free market without regulations? thats the question,.

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: Robert Paulson on November 08, 2014, 10:41:26 AM

...
the entire history of mankind had a monarchy, so if we follow your logic we should have a monarch not a government.

No, Robert Paulson. Wrong again. Return to ditch digging pl0x.

Robert Paulson

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: NotLambchop on November 08, 2014, 10:04:11 AM

Quote from: Nicolas Dorier on November 08, 2014, 09:58:01 AM

Quote from: Tsquared on November 08, 2014, 08:33:27 AM

There are services that I expect to be available in my community, roads need maintained, fires need put out, trash needs to be picked up. If I had the time to do one of these jobs I'd expect to be paid for my work. Since I don't have the time, I expect others to do this work for me, and I have to pay my share so that these folks can feed their families.

TT

Why do you think that government intervention is necessary for such services ?
Why do you think private business can't be more efficient for that than a bureaucrat ?

Because the entire history of mankind?

the entire history of mankind had a monarchy, so if we follow your logic we should have a monarch not a government.

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: Nicolas Dorier on November 08, 2014, 09:58:01 AM

Quote from: Tsquared on November 08, 2014, 08:33:27 AM

There are services that I expect to be available in my community, roads need maintained, fires need put out, trash needs to be picked up. If I had the time to do one of these jobs I'd expect to be paid for my work. Since I don't have the time, I expect others to do this work for me, and I have to pay my share so that these folks can feed their families.

TT

Why do you think that government intervention is necessary for such services ?
Why do you think private business can't be more efficient for that than a bureaucrat ?

Because the entire history of mankind?

Nicolas Dorier

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 662

Quote from: Tsquared on November 08, 2014, 08:33:27 AM

There are services that I expect to be available in my community, roads need maintained, fires need put out, trash needs to be picked up. If I had the time to do one of these jobs I'd expect to be paid for my work. Since I don't have the time, I expect others to do this work for me, and I have to pay my share so that these folks can feed their families.

TT

Why do you think that government intervention is necessary for such services ?
Why do you think private business can't be more efficient for that than a bureaucrat ?

Tsquared

hero member

Activity: 500

Merit: 501

http://digitalcoin.org/

I choose to pay taxes and I expect my neighbors to do the same. There are services that I expect to be available in my community, roads need maintained, fires need put out, trash needs to be picked up. If I had the time to do one of these jobs I'd expect to be paid for my work. Since I don't have the time, I expect others to do this work for me, and I have to pay my share so that these folks can feed their families.

TT

Zawamiya

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