Topic: Will China go to war with Japan? - page 7. (Read 10128 times)
How long should the US have this defense pact with Japan? and if Japan causes the war with China why should the US side with Japan? I am sick of the US trying to get involved in other nations' issues when we are arguing over islands with no clear answer. Yes it's over islands but it's for economic reasons. Why waste millions of lives for a relatively small economic win?
Yes, you are right about the names, but the truth is still by my side. The possession of these otherwise worthless islands allows Russia to get full control over that part of the sea (the Sea of Okhotsk to be precise)...
Sea of Okhostsk - Yes.
La Pérouse Strait - No.
Big difference. The ocean boundaries between Japan and Russia are undisputed and well defined up to the North of the Shiretoko peninsula. Only the marine region to the East of the Shiretoko peninsula is disputed.
So what's incorrect about my point exactly? It has been pretty well known (or rather obvious) since the end of the war that Russia grabbed these small islands in order to establish their control over the strait. In fact, Stalin at first was planning to occupy the whole island of Hokkaido
Please clarify what I got wrong...
Please clarify what I got wrong...
See this:
You said who ever controls Iturup and Kunashir will gain the control of also controls the La Pérouse Strait.
That is wrong. La Pérouse Strait is far away (North-west of the disputed area).
Yes, you are right about the names, but the truth is still by my side. The possession of these otherwise worthless islands allows Russia to get full control over that part of the sea (the Sea of Okhotsk to be precise)...
So what's incorrect about my point exactly? It has been pretty well known (or rather obvious) since the end of the war that Russia grabbed these small islands in order to establish their control over the strait. In fact, Stalin at first was planning to occupy the whole island of Hokkaido
Please clarify what I got wrong...
Please clarify what I got wrong...
See this:
You said who ever controls Iturup and Kunashir will gain the control of also controls the La Pérouse Strait.
That is wrong. La Pérouse Strait is far away (North-west of the disputed area).
Those small islands are almost 1/4 of Japan.
According to wikipedia:
"Sakhalin is a classic "primary sector of the economy" relying on oil and gas exports, coal mining, forestry, and fishing. Limited quantities of rye, wheat, oats, barley and vegetables are grown, although the growing season averages less than 100 days.[17]
Following the collapse of the Soviet Union and economic liberalization, Sakhalin has experienced an oil boom with extensive petroleum exploration and mining by most large oil multinational corporations. The oil and natural gas reserves contain an estimated 14 billion barrels (2.2 km³) of oil and 96 trillion cubic feet (2,700 km³) of gas and are being developed under production-sharing agreement contracts involving international oil companies like ExxonMobil and Shell."
According to wikipedia:
"Sakhalin is a classic "primary sector of the economy" relying on oil and gas exports, coal mining, forestry, and fishing. Limited quantities of rye, wheat, oats, barley and vegetables are grown, although the growing season averages less than 100 days.[17]
Following the collapse of the Soviet Union and economic liberalization, Sakhalin has experienced an oil boom with extensive petroleum exploration and mining by most large oil multinational corporations. The oil and natural gas reserves contain an estimated 14 billion barrels (2.2 km³) of oil and 96 trillion cubic feet (2,700 km³) of gas and are being developed under production-sharing agreement contracts involving international oil companies like ExxonMobil and Shell."
Those small islands may be completely worthless as such but he who controls them also controls the La Pérouse Strait which divides the southern part of Sakhalin from the northern part of the Japanese island of Hokkaido...
Both of you got it wrong. Japan has "defacto" agreed that the Sakhalin is a part of Russia. The ongoing dispute is regarding the Southern Kuril islands (on the North-east of Japan, far away from Sakhalin). These islands consists of three main islands (Iturup - 313,900 hectares, Kunashir - 149,000 ha, Shikotan - 22,500 ha) and a few rocks.
The funny thing is that there was never an ethnic Japanese population in these islands (unlike South Sakhalin). It was once inhabited by the now near-extinct Kuril Ainu tribe. Some 100-200 of them currently live in Russia, but they have lost their culture and language. In Japan, the few who had migrated to Hokkaido became extinct soon after the WW2. The current population of S Kurils is ~20,000 and almost entirely consisting of Whites.
However, Japan is home to the Hokkaido Ainu tribe (numbers around 15,000 mixed race individuals), which is distantly related to the Kuril Ainu.
Like that, it is only a smaller area, not very significant to the Japanese for reasons other than national pride. At least, that's how I see it.
Those small islands are almost 1/4 of Japan.
According to wikipedia:
"Sakhalin is a classic "primary sector of the economy" relying on oil and gas exports, coal mining, forestry, and fishing. Limited quantities of rye, wheat, oats, barley and vegetables are grown, although the growing season averages less than 100 days.[17]
Following the collapse of the Soviet Union and economic liberalization, Sakhalin has experienced an oil boom with extensive petroleum exploration and mining by most large oil multinational corporations. The oil and natural gas reserves contain an estimated 14 billion barrels (2.2 km³) of oil and 96 trillion cubic feet (2,700 km³) of gas and are being developed under production-sharing agreement contracts involving international oil companies like ExxonMobil and Shell."
According to wikipedia:
"Sakhalin is a classic "primary sector of the economy" relying on oil and gas exports, coal mining, forestry, and fishing. Limited quantities of rye, wheat, oats, barley and vegetables are grown, although the growing season averages less than 100 days.[17]
Following the collapse of the Soviet Union and economic liberalization, Sakhalin has experienced an oil boom with extensive petroleum exploration and mining by most large oil multinational corporations. The oil and natural gas reserves contain an estimated 14 billion barrels (2.2 km³) of oil and 96 trillion cubic feet (2,700 km³) of gas and are being developed under production-sharing agreement contracts involving international oil companies like ExxonMobil and Shell."
Those small islands may be completely worthless as such but he who controls them also controls the La Pérouse Strait which divides the southern part of Sakhalin from the northern part of the Japanese island of Hokkaido...
Both of you got it wrong. Japan has "defacto" agreed that the Sakhalin is a part of Russia. The ongoing dispute is regarding the Southern Kuril islands (on the North-east of Japan, far away from Sakhalin). These islands consists of three main islands (Iturup - 313,900 hectares, Kunashir - 149,000 ha, Shikotan - 22,500 ha) and a few rocks.
So what's incorrect about my point exactly? It has been pretty well known (or rather obvious) since the end of the war that Russia grabbed these small islands in order to establish their control over the strait. In fact, Stalin at first was planning to occupy the whole island of Hokkaido
Please clarify what I got wrong...
Those small islands are almost 1/4 of Japan.
According to wikipedia:
"Sakhalin is a classic "primary sector of the economy" relying on oil and gas exports, coal mining, forestry, and fishing. Limited quantities of rye, wheat, oats, barley and vegetables are grown, although the growing season averages less than 100 days.[17]
Following the collapse of the Soviet Union and economic liberalization, Sakhalin has experienced an oil boom with extensive petroleum exploration and mining by most large oil multinational corporations. The oil and natural gas reserves contain an estimated 14 billion barrels (2.2 km³) of oil and 96 trillion cubic feet (2,700 km³) of gas and are being developed under production-sharing agreement contracts involving international oil companies like ExxonMobil and Shell."
According to wikipedia:
"Sakhalin is a classic "primary sector of the economy" relying on oil and gas exports, coal mining, forestry, and fishing. Limited quantities of rye, wheat, oats, barley and vegetables are grown, although the growing season averages less than 100 days.[17]
Following the collapse of the Soviet Union and economic liberalization, Sakhalin has experienced an oil boom with extensive petroleum exploration and mining by most large oil multinational corporations. The oil and natural gas reserves contain an estimated 14 billion barrels (2.2 km³) of oil and 96 trillion cubic feet (2,700 km³) of gas and are being developed under production-sharing agreement contracts involving international oil companies like ExxonMobil and Shell."
Those small islands may be completely worthless as such but he who controls them also controls the La Pérouse Strait which divides the southern part of Sakhalin from the northern part of the Japanese island of Hokkaido...
Both of you got it wrong. Japan has "defacto" agreed that the Sakhalin is a part of Russia. The ongoing dispute is regarding the Southern Kuril islands (on the North-east of Japan, far away from Sakhalin). These islands consists of three main islands (Iturup - 313,900 hectares, Kunashir - 149,000 ha, Shikotan - 22,500 ha) and a few rocks.
The funny thing is that there was never an ethnic Japanese population in these islands (unlike South Sakhalin). It was once inhabited by the now near-extinct Kuril Ainu tribe. Some 100-200 of them currently live in Russia, but they have lost their culture and language. In Japan, the few who had migrated to Hokkaido became extinct soon after the WW2. The current population of S Kurils is ~20,000 and almost entirely consisting of Whites.
However, Japan is home to the Hokkaido Ainu tribe (numbers around 15,000 mixed race individuals), which is distantly related to the Kuril Ainu.
I wonder what would happen if Japan started bullying Russia over disputed islands of South Sakhalin which were taken by Russia after the WWII. Formally they are still at war without peace treaty signed between the states...
Those small islands (or rather two small islands plus a few rocks) are completely worthless. On the other hand, valuable gas deposits are located near the Shankaku Islands (the reason for current problems).
So there is no chance of a conflict between Russia and Japan.
Those small islands may be completely worthless as such but he who controls them also controls the La Pérouse Strait which divides the southern part of Sakhalin from the northern part of the Japanese island of Hokkaido...
But China did actually bully Russia in 1960s. It even came to armed clashes along the border.
During the Sino-Soviet border conflict, the Russians over-ran Chinese positions in a few weeks time while suffering only a few dozen casualties (compared to ~ 1,000 for the PLA). China had its massive manpower. Wanted to check its' efficiency and therefore poked the Soviets. The Russians returned in kind and the Chinese kept quiet ever since.
That border conflict was mostly used for testing purposes , both to equipment and the possible involvement of the US.
The both sides understand it's better to stay calm and have a drink.
But China did actually bully Russia in 1960s. It even came to armed clashes along the border.
During the Sino-Soviet border conflict, the Russians over-ran Chinese positions in a few weeks time while suffering only a few dozen casualties (compared to ~ 1,000 for the PLA). China had its massive manpower. Wanted to check its' efficiency and therefore poked the Soviets. The Russians returned in kind and the Chinese kept quiet ever since.
So it seems that the Asian tiger has finally licked its wounds and is now searching for a new "prey" to sink its teeth into...
I wonder what would happen if Japan started bullying Russia over disputed islands of South Sakhalin which were taken by Russia after the WWII. Formally they are still at war without peace treaty signed between the states...
Those small islands (or rather two small islands plus a few rocks) are completely worthless. On the other hand, valuable gas deposits are located near the Shankaku Islands (the reason for current problems).
So there is no chance of a conflict between Russia and Japan.
And Japan bullying Russia? Really? If Japan provokes Russia the latter will sweep the floor with the Japanese.
Russia is having the largest number of nuclear weapons in the world. They are having the best Inter-continental Ballistic Missiles. They are having the best air-defense system in the world. The Russian regular army alone numbers more than a million, with millions more in the reserves.
China is having just the manpower. Japan is having the technology. Russia have both.
Those small islands are almost 1/4 of Japan.
According to wikipedia:
"Sakhalin is a classic "primary sector of the economy" relying on oil and gas exports, coal mining, forestry, and fishing. Limited quantities of rye, wheat, oats, barley and vegetables are grown, although the growing season averages less than 100 days.[17]
Following the collapse of the Soviet Union and economic liberalization, Sakhalin has experienced an oil boom with extensive petroleum exploration and mining by most large oil multinational corporations. The oil and natural gas reserves contain an estimated 14 billion barrels (2.2 km³) of oil and 96 trillion cubic feet (2,700 km³) of gas and are being developed under production-sharing agreement contracts involving international oil companies like ExxonMobil and Shell."
But China did actually bully Russia in 1960s. It even came to armed clashes along the border.
During the Sino-Soviet border conflict, the Russians over-ran Chinese positions in a few weeks time while suffering only a few dozen casualties (compared to ~ 1,000 for the PLA). China had its massive manpower. Wanted to check its' efficiency and therefore poked the Soviets. The Russians returned in kind and the Chinese kept quiet ever since.
So we have Russia (then much more powerful and truculent USSR) not smashing China to smithereens (though China did suffer some human losses back then) and China which was not afraid to come to blows with a superior opponent. Has anything really changed since then (in respect to China, first of all)?
At that time, the major conflict (Cold War) was between the USSR and the US. China was being regarded as a neutral nation, being mildly pro-USSR. An armed conflict with China could have turned the Cold war equilibrium against the Russians, given the massive American military infrastructure which existed at that time in Okinawa and Philippines.
So there is no chance of a conflict between Russia and Japan.
And Japan bullying Russia? Really? If Japan provokes Russia the latter will sweep the floor with the Japanese.
Russia is having the largest number of nuclear weapons in the world. They are having the best Inter-continental Ballistic Missiles. They are having the best air-defense system in the world. The Russian regular army alone numbers more than a million, with millions more in the reserves.
China is having just the manpower. Japan is having the technology. Russia have both.
But China did actually bully Russia in 1960s. It even came to armed clashes along the border. So we have Russia (then much more powerful and truculent USSR) not smashing China to smithereens (though China did suffer some human losses back then) and China which was not afraid to come to blows with a superior opponent. Has anything really changed since then (in respect to China, first of all)?
I wonder what would happen if Japan started bullying Russia over disputed islands of South Sakhalin which were taken by Russia after the WWII. Formally they are still at war without peace treaty signed between the states...
Those small islands (or rather two small islands plus a few rocks) are completely worthless. On the other hand, valuable gas deposits are located near the Shankaku Islands (the reason for current problems).
So there is no chance of a conflict between Russia and Japan.
And Japan bullying Russia? Really? If Japan provokes Russia the latter will sweep the floor with the Japanese.
Russia is having the largest number of nuclear weapons in the world. They are having the best Inter-continental Ballistic Missiles. They are having the best air-defense system in the world. The Russian regular army alone numbers more than a million, with millions more in the reserves.
China is having just the manpower. Japan is having the technology. Russia have both.
Yes when world war 3....
I don't think that China will win. If anything, she will be nuked into the Stone Age.
China will be vulnerable against nuke attacks by the allies of Japan (read the US).
China doesn't have the capacity to successfully counter an American nuclear attack (either missle-based or aircraft-based).
Also, it doesn't have the capacity to strike back at the US. The Chinese ICBMs are noway near the American and Russian ICBMs.
I wonder what would happen if Japan started bullying Russia over disputed islands of South Sakhalin which were taken by Russia after the WWII. Formally they are still at war without peace treaty signed between the states...
Do you know about the consequences if such an incident occurs? More than a hundred million people will lose their lives. World economy will collapse. Large number of people (perhaps including you) will lose their jobs, inflation can hit three-digits, there will be shortage of food and medicines...
You obviously didn't see the comic I linked to. And you seem to have also missed the "edit" (which was already there when you answered), in which I say pretty much the same thing you do, in not so many words...
Lol... my apologies. Didn't checked the link although it was there by the time I replied.
Do you know about the consequences if such an incident occurs? More than a hundred million people will lose their lives. World economy will collapse. Large number of people (perhaps including you) will lose their jobs, inflation can hit three-digits, there will be shortage of food and medicines...
You obviously didn't see the comic I linked to. And you seem to have also missed the "edit" (which was already there when you answered), in which I say pretty much the same thing you do, in not so many words...
Do you know about the consequences if such an incident occurs? More than a hundred million people will lose their lives. World economy will collapse. Large number of people (perhaps including you) will lose their jobs, inflation can hit three-digits, there will be shortage of food and medicines...
I don't think it will happen; it's little more than sabre rattling. But it would be cool if they did... http://endlessorigami.com/comic/china-and-japan-go-to-war/ 
EDIT: Oh, and to those discussing who would win and who has the biggest stick, I think we would all lose.
EDIT: Oh, and to those discussing who would win and who has the biggest stick, I think we would all lose.
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