They added Dwolla now guys so you know dwolla has no reverse payment once you make your purchase that is it.
Topic: YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL - page 23. (Read 45623 times)
Someone on BFL Blogs appears to not be able to use Paypal to pay BF Labs inc. anymore?
[email protected] - 08-07-2013 05:17 PM
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I was trying order a miner today. I had the money transferred over to paypal last week.
Paypal it appears is no longer accepting BFL.
Any Comment ?
Thanks
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/267-saturday-miscellaneous-answers-page8.html
I'm not going to test the theory but interesting if it were true.
[email protected] - 08-07-2013 05:17 PM
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I was trying order a miner today. I had the money transferred over to paypal last week.
Paypal it appears is no longer accepting BFL.
Any Comment ?
Thanks
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/267-saturday-miscellaneous-answers-page8.html
I'm not going to test the theory but interesting if it were true.
So basically from a few BFL_Josh threads from the BFL forums I have come to the understanding that the Refund policy had to change because too many people were coming to grips (including myself) that BFL were not going to deliver. Deliver in time or not at all. The hedging allegation from BFL is a smokescreen.
Perhaps refunds were awarded on a case by case basis depending on how you paid. If paid by paypal well no because there are now too many refund requests (obviously) and Paypal would shut down BFL's Paypal account due to excessive refunds.
Can anyone confirm they just recently (after No refund declaration from BFL) that they have easily gotten a refund for a BTC payment?
Perhaps refunds were awarded on a case by case basis depending on how you paid. If paid by paypal well no because there are now too many refund requests (obviously) and Paypal would shut down BFL's Paypal account due to excessive refunds.
Can anyone confirm they just recently (after No refund declaration from BFL) that they have easily gotten a refund for a BTC payment?
From PayPal's point-o'-view, isn't a good faith refund, no matter how many, better in their eyes than 100's of customers complaining via their refund/fraud department. The results are virtually the same--refunds paid.
If PP ToS states that no funds are to be used for the development of a product, and BFL clearly states that that's what the pre-order moneys are destined for, an automatic refund via PayPal should be granted without any further review.
Anybody that believes that BFL is operating on the up-and-up without any missteps, sans the possibly acceptable common delays due to being in unfamiliar territory, is delusional at best, or working in concert with BFL in some capacity at worse.
Since they opted to play with vinegar oppose to sugar, PG opts to maintain their chosen ph level.
~Bitcoin Elite Monumental Asshole (BEMA)~
enough of the stupid pictures already. can we keep this thread informational and not "i told you so" ego boosting?
FTFY.
Read this "Boohoo, I'm being molested on the interwebs" post.
He he listing the very 4 data that could just make the trolling stop, once and for all.
Listing this information would be VERY easy for them, probably MUCH less a hassle than posting pay dates.
How would it not be easier to know how many units they ship per day, rather than check the pay date for the last shiped unit of the day?
So they are clearly, actively, spending energy to keep the smoke screen up.
Final conclusion : They don't wanna make the trolling stop.
Theory #1 :
- Sonny/Josh are trying to sell the business off before the end of september.
Theory #2 :
- They are taking advantage of us not knowing the log depth to actually stall on shipping, sending off just 3 or 4 units a day to still get minimum public feedback, while getting ready for their new life in Cuba.
So basically from a few BFL_Josh threads from the BFL forums I have come to the understanding that the Refund policy had to change because too many people were coming to grips (including myself) that BFL were not going to deliver. Deliver in time or not at all. The hedging allegation from BFL is a smokescreen.
Perhaps refunds were awarded on a case by case basis depending on how you paid. If paid by paypal well no because there are now too many refund requests (obviously) and Paypal would shut down BFL's Paypal account due to excessive refunds.
Can anyone confirm they just recently (after No refund declaration from BFL) that they have easily gotten a refund for a BTC payment?
Perhaps refunds were awarded on a case by case basis depending on how you paid. If paid by paypal well no because there are now too many refund requests (obviously) and Paypal would shut down BFL's Paypal account due to excessive refunds.
Can anyone confirm they just recently (after No refund declaration from BFL) that they have easily gotten a refund for a BTC payment?
Bingo - Took a while but here it is from the one and only....
07-04-2013, 07:55 PM BFL_Josh "The point is that you agreed to the terms when you placed your order. We even reconfirmed with everyone several months ago and we have been issuing refunds since the start at the users request.
Now, when we are committing resources to manufacture equipment in large volume and to do that we need to have a fairly accurate count of the parts we need.
We have maintained all customer pre order funds available for refund since the beginning and contrary to what the troll elite on bitcointalk would have you believe, we did not use customer funds for R&D. As we ship product the funds are made available for operations and future products and development.
People have had months and months to get a refund. At some point that had to stop. We are not a hedge for your bitcoin investment ; that is what the people asking for refunds now are using it as. We have been up front with our policy from day 1. To complain about it now is utterly ludicrous."
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy-2.html
Wow that's some contradiction "contrary to what the troll elite on bitcointalk would have you believe, we did not use customer funds for R&D." yet "As we ship product the funds are made available for operations and future products and development." So do use pre-order funds for R&D or Future Products and Development?
Is that some sort of weirdo logic is it more of your Steve Jobs reality distortion field?
Oh and BTW Butt Munch Josh, I am not and never have been using my BFL Pre-order in a Hedge for any bitcoin investment. I sent you THOUSANDS of my $$$$ and now have lost faith in BFL's ability to deliver. Meaning I DO NOT TRUST YOU or BFL to DELIVER. SO GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK. NOW.
07-04-2013, 07:55 PM BFL_Josh "The point is that you agreed to the terms when you placed your order. We even reconfirmed with everyone several months ago and we have been issuing refunds since the start at the users request.
Now, when we are committing resources to manufacture equipment in large volume and to do that we need to have a fairly accurate count of the parts we need.
We have maintained all customer pre order funds available for refund since the beginning and contrary to what the troll elite on bitcointalk would have you believe, we did not use customer funds for R&D. As we ship product the funds are made available for operations and future products and development.
People have had months and months to get a refund. At some point that had to stop. We are not a hedge for your bitcoin investment ; that is what the people asking for refunds now are using it as. We have been up front with our policy from day 1. To complain about it now is utterly ludicrous."
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy-2.html
Wow that's some contradiction "contrary to what the troll elite on bitcointalk would have you believe, we did not use customer funds for R&D." yet "As we ship product the funds are made available for operations and future products and development." So do use pre-order funds for R&D or Future Products and Development?
Is that some sort of weirdo logic is it more of your Steve Jobs reality distortion field?
Oh and BTW Butt Munch Josh, I am not and never have been using my BFL Pre-order in a Hedge for any bitcoin investment. I sent you THOUSANDS of my $$$$ and now have lost faith in BFL's ability to deliver. Meaning I DO NOT TRUST YOU or BFL to DELIVER. SO GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK. NOW.
I don't know of any venture that was ever successful that didn't include some loss... every investor (I mean EVERY INVESTOR) in the history of the world has put money on the line (risky investments) in the hopes that they pay off and every one of them has lost money. It's the nature of the beast. The hope is that overall you make more good choices than bad choices!
Personally - I wish I would've stopped at 2 orders with BFL, the 3rd one is the only one that I regret... and I don't have any hardware yet, probably won't for another couple of months.
On the flip side, I get the impression that BFL is actually working really hard to get these orders out the door. Maybe they are afraid of the onslaught of credit card charge backs, paypal charge backs and threats of lawsuit; maybe they are trying to do right by their customers, who knows - have they made a lot of mistakes, yes; will they be around next year, who knows; will I buy from them again, no... are there hundreds or thousands of new customers who don't know any better, yup!
Personally - I wish I would've stopped at 2 orders with BFL, the 3rd one is the only one that I regret... and I don't have any hardware yet, probably won't for another couple of months.
On the flip side, I get the impression that BFL is actually working really hard to get these orders out the door. Maybe they are afraid of the onslaught of credit card charge backs, paypal charge backs and threats of lawsuit; maybe they are trying to do right by their customers, who knows - have they made a lot of mistakes, yes; will they be around next year, who knows; will I buy from them again, no... are there hundreds or thousands of new customers who don't know any better, yup!
Josh About Paypal refunds
03-04-2013, 11:34 PM BFL_Josh " In a nutshell we do not have any way to charge a credit card (either preauth or outright charge) and we can not do it through Paypal as so many refunds would cause them to shut down our account.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1219-march-4th-update-discussion-3.html
?03-04-2013, 11:34 PM BFL_Josh " In a nutshell we do not have any way to charge a credit card (either preauth or outright charge) and we can not do it through Paypal as so many refunds would cause them to shut down our account.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1219-march-4th-update-discussion-3.html
Paypal allows anyone with a credit card to pay using it as a funding source. I have never heard of any type of actual restrictions you could use to prevent it from happening.
Josh About Paypal refunds
03-04-2013, 11:34 PM BFL_Josh " In a nutshell we do not have any way to charge a credit card (either preauth or outright charge) and we can not do it through Paypal as so many refunds would cause them to shut down our account.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1219-march-4th-update-discussion-3.html
03-04-2013, 11:34 PM BFL_Josh " In a nutshell we do not have any way to charge a credit card (either preauth or outright charge) and we can not do it through Paypal as so many refunds would cause them to shut down our account.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1219-march-4th-update-discussion-3.html
enough of the stupid pictures already. can we keep this thread informational and not "i told you so" ego boosting?
Good Catch...searching for the post by Big_Fracking_Liar_Josh where he said that they were not using the Pre-order funds until they where in the actual build process. BTW asshole Josh you are not in the build process of my order as of now and you can't even tell me when that will happen so stuff your BS up yours!
In the very next sentence they explain why this is necessary:
Quote
It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change.
Let's see how this works out in theory and how the small number of customers have taken advantage of the exchange rate.
Months ago, a customer buys a unit for $2,000 and pays with X bitcoins. Customer later request a refund, it's granted, and they receive $2,000 in Y bitcoins (doesn't matter if the exchange rate went up or down). Then, the customer reorders, paying $2,000 once again with Z bitcoins, but is now in a much later queue position. As any idiot can see, the customer comes out like a bandit, and BFL was wise to stop this practice before it got outta hand.
I aspire to be as SMART as BFL some day.
That explanation makes absolutely zero sense. If people did that, they would lose money like crazy.
Therefore, it's bullshit.
Good Catch...searching for the post by Big_Fracking_Liar_Josh where he said that they were not using the Pre-order funds until they where in the actual build process. BTW asshole Josh you are not in the build process of my order as of now and you can't even tell me when that will happen so stuff your BS up yours!
In the very next sentence they explain why this is necessary:
Quote
It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change.
Let's see how this works out in theory and how the small number of customers have taken advantage of the exchange rate.
Months ago, a customer buys a unit for $2,000 and pays with X bitcoins. Customer later request a refund, it's granted, and they receive $2,000 in Y bitcoins (doesn't matter if the exchange rate went up or down). Then, the customer reorders, paying $2,000 once again with Z bitcoins, but is now in a much later queue position. As any idiot can see, the customer comes out like a bandit, and BFL was wise to stop this practice before it got outta hand.
I aspire to be as SMART as BFL some day.
Good Catch...searching for the post by Big_Fracking_Liar_Josh where he said that they were not using the Pre-order funds until they where in the actual build process. BTW asshole Josh you are not in the build process of my order as of now and you can't even tell me when that will happen so stuff your BS up yours!
They keep changing their FAQ for Refunds: BF Labs inc. are in damage control.
www.butterflyabs.com FAQ internet site snapshots researched on Internet Archives WayBackMachine
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.butterflylabs.com/
Jan 23 2013 FAQ
Can I get a refund on my pre-order?
Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late November or early December 2012. Your pre-order with payment confirms your place in line for delivery once we begin shipping. Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.
Feb 26, 2013
FAQ:Refund Request
Question:
I submitted a refund request to [email protected] but haven't heard back yet. When can I expect confirmation?
Answer:
3-4 workdays to start the refund process
7 workdays for wire
2-3 workdays for Paypal or bitcoin
April 30, 2013 - July 25, 2013
Can I get a refund on my pre-order?
All sales are final unless we fail to perform. That means if we do not ship any machine at all. If you would really like a refund anyway, just ask and we'll probably be able to take care of you. Nonetheless, we reserve the right to handle it on a case by case basis.
Refunds usually take 3-4 days to begin the process. If you paid with a bank wire, it will take an additional week or so for the funds to appear in your account. PayPal and Bitcoin refunds can take 2-3 days for the funds to appear in your account.
Bitcoin payments and refunds are processed through a third-party vendor. The amount refunded is based on the US Dollar equivalent at the time the transaction is initiated.
Presently Aug 7, 2013
Can I get a refund on my order?
A
While we reserve the right to handle refund requests on a case by case basis, pre-ordered products are non-refundable as is clearly stated at the time of purchase. The reason for this is that pre-order funds are used in the build process which makes it impractical to reverse. It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change. This has created an enormous customer service burden which is resolved by enforcing the all sales final policy.
Some customers have asked why we've given order cancelation refunds to others, but they can't get one. The answer is that we had opted to process order cancelation requests during our long product development phase as a courtesy to those who endured the stress of the unknown. However, once full production began, a notice was sent out advising that orders would be shipped as produced according to the order queue and that if anyone was unwilling to endure the wait, they had a final opportunity to cancel. Customers were required to positively confirm their desire to remain in the order queue and accept the order terms.
Pre-Order terms for new orders were updated on the website on April 1, 2013. The terms state, "I accept the terms of the sale and understand that all sales are final and there is a backlog of orders and production & delivery of my order may take 2 months or longer."
As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected.
Here is the relevant FTC guideline text:
"when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
www.butterflyabs.com FAQ internet site snapshots researched on Internet Archives WayBackMachine
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.butterflylabs.com/
Jan 23 2013 FAQ
Can I get a refund on my pre-order?
Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late November or early December 2012. Your pre-order with payment confirms your place in line for delivery once we begin shipping. Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.
Feb 26, 2013
FAQ:Refund Request
Question:
I submitted a refund request to [email protected] but haven't heard back yet. When can I expect confirmation?
Answer:
3-4 workdays to start the refund process
7 workdays for wire
2-3 workdays for Paypal or bitcoin
April 30, 2013 - July 25, 2013
Can I get a refund on my pre-order?
All sales are final unless we fail to perform. That means if we do not ship any machine at all. If you would really like a refund anyway, just ask and we'll probably be able to take care of you. Nonetheless, we reserve the right to handle it on a case by case basis.
Refunds usually take 3-4 days to begin the process. If you paid with a bank wire, it will take an additional week or so for the funds to appear in your account. PayPal and Bitcoin refunds can take 2-3 days for the funds to appear in your account.
Bitcoin payments and refunds are processed through a third-party vendor. The amount refunded is based on the US Dollar equivalent at the time the transaction is initiated.
Presently Aug 7, 2013
Can I get a refund on my order?
A
While we reserve the right to handle refund requests on a case by case basis, pre-ordered products are non-refundable as is clearly stated at the time of purchase. The reason for this is that pre-order funds are used in the build process which makes it impractical to reverse. It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change. This has created an enormous customer service burden which is resolved by enforcing the all sales final policy.
Some customers have asked why we've given order cancelation refunds to others, but they can't get one. The answer is that we had opted to process order cancelation requests during our long product development phase as a courtesy to those who endured the stress of the unknown. However, once full production began, a notice was sent out advising that orders would be shipped as produced according to the order queue and that if anyone was unwilling to endure the wait, they had a final opportunity to cancel. Customers were required to positively confirm their desire to remain in the order queue and accept the order terms.
Pre-Order terms for new orders were updated on the website on April 1, 2013. The terms state, "I accept the terms of the sale and understand that all sales are final and there is a backlog of orders and production & delivery of my order may take 2 months or longer."
As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected.
Here is the relevant FTC guideline text:
"when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
ERGO, MOTHER FUCKIN' LIARS!
I'm hedging squat with BFL or any other Pre-order ASIC business. I put my faith and Trust in BFL and placed several orders in Early to Mid 2013 based on Josh Updates
...two more weeks full production...300 units day...400 units a day...ship all exiting pre-orders by end of Aug 2013....
ALL A PACK OF LIES
I never agreed to wait 7 months or more and at the time of my going into a contractual sale of a pre-sale, refunds were available as stated on the FAQ at the time.
I want all my money back and when I do, I'm going to lick my wounds and get out of this ASIC nonsense. I'm at the point of just feeling I'm gaining by not losing my very own money.
Does your experience reflect:...two more weeks full production...300 units day...400 units a day...ship all exiting pre-orders by end of Aug 2013....
ALL A PACK OF LIES
I never agreed to wait 7 months or more and at the time of my going into a contractual sale of a pre-sale, refunds were available as stated on the FAQ at the time.
I want all my money back and when I do, I'm going to lick my wounds and get out of this ASIC nonsense. I'm at the point of just feeling I'm gaining by not losing my very own money.
Or
Personally I am:
With a mix of:
I'm hedging squat with BFL or any other Pre-order ASIC business. I put my faith and Trust in BFL and placed several orders in Early to Mid 2013 based on Josh Updates
...two more weeks full production...300 units day...400 units a day...ship all exiting pre-orders by end of Aug 2013....
ALL A PACK OF LIES
I never agreed to wait 7 months or more and at the time of my going into a contractual sale of a pre-sale, refunds were available as stated on the FAQ at the time.
I want all my money back and when I do, I'm going to lick my wounds and get out of this ASIC nonsense. I'm at the point of just feeling I'm gaining by not losing my very own money.
...two more weeks full production...300 units day...400 units a day...ship all exiting pre-orders by end of Aug 2013....
ALL A PACK OF LIES
I never agreed to wait 7 months or more and at the time of my going into a contractual sale of a pre-sale, refunds were available as stated on the FAQ at the time.
I want all my money back and when I do, I'm going to lick my wounds and get out of this ASIC nonsense. I'm at the point of just feeling I'm gaining by not losing my very own money.
Presently Aug 7, 2013
Can I get a refund on my order?
A
While we reserve the right to handle refund requests on a case by case basis, pre-ordered products are non-refundable as is clearly stated at the time of purchase. The reason for this is that pre-order funds are used in the build process which makes it impractical to reverse. It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change. This has created an enormous customer service burden which is resolved by enforcing the all sales final policy.
What ("I think") they really mean is that people were using/abusing Paypal in 45 day intervals. As well as reserving the right to drop BFL like a hot potato as soon as they were not selling the hottest promise in vaporware delivery.
My interpretation:
A) Customers were constantly (due to massive BFL delays) cancelling their orders and re-opening them at a later date. Probably made BFL have alot of problems with their bank and Paypal for moving such huge volumes of money back and forth. (IMO)
B) Customers would move their money from BFL to other vendors (Avalon/bASIC) like herds of sheeple as soon as the next hot thing in ASIC technology came out. Thats what they probably meant as hedging. Which probably tells you that it was a significant problem.
Some customers have asked why we've given order cancelation refunds to others, but they can't get one. The answer is that we had opted to process order cancelation requests during our long product development phase as a courtesy to those who endured the stress of the unknown. However, once full production began, a notice was sent out advising that orders would be shipped as produced according to the order queue and that if anyone was unwilling to endure the wait, they had a final opportunity to cancel. Customers were required to positively confirm their desire to remain in the order queue and accept the order terms.
I guess you all should have asked what the terms were before you agreed to them....Suckers.
Pre-Order terms for new orders were updated on the website on April 1, 2013. The terms state, "I accept the terms of the sale and understand that all sales are final and there is a backlog of orders and production & delivery of my order may take 2 months or longer."
As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected.
Here is the relevant FTC guideline text:
"when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
In other words:As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected.
Here is the relevant FTC guideline text:
"when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
We think we can do what no one else in the industry has ever done before. Paper our walls with printed toilet paper full of "Get out of Jail" escape clauses and hope this protects our ass from lengthy non-deliveries.
Bam, problem solved. (as long as you think we actually have the upper hand?)
Great job.
They keep changing their FAQ for Refunds: BF Labs inc. are in damage control.
www.butterflyabs.com FAQ internet site snapshots researched on Internet Archives WayBackMachine
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.butterflylabs.com/
Jan 23 2013 FAQ
Can I get a refund on my pre-order?
Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late November or early December 2012. Your pre-order with payment confirms your place in line for delivery once we begin shipping. Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.
Feb 26, 2013
FAQ:Refund Request
Question:
I submitted a refund request to [email protected] but haven't heard back yet. When can I expect confirmation?
Answer:
3-4 workdays to start the refund process
7 workdays for wire
2-3 workdays for Paypal or bitcoin
April 30, 2013 - July 25, 2013
Can I get a refund on my pre-order?
All sales are final unless we fail to perform. That means if we do not ship any machine at all. If you would really like a refund anyway, just ask and we'll probably be able to take care of you. Nonetheless, we reserve the right to handle it on a case by case basis.
Refunds usually take 3-4 days to begin the process. If you paid with a bank wire, it will take an additional week or so for the funds to appear in your account. PayPal and Bitcoin refunds can take 2-3 days for the funds to appear in your account.
Bitcoin payments and refunds are processed through a third-party vendor. The amount refunded is based on the US Dollar equivalent at the time the transaction is initiated.
Presently Aug 7, 2013
Can I get a refund on my order?
A
While we reserve the right to handle refund requests on a case by case basis, pre-ordered products are non-refundable as is clearly stated at the time of purchase. The reason for this is that pre-order funds are used in the build process which makes it impractical to reverse. It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change. This has created an enormous customer service burden which is resolved by enforcing the all sales final policy.
Some customers have asked why we've given order cancelation refunds to others, but they can't get one. The answer is that we had opted to process order cancelation requests during our long product development phase as a courtesy to those who endured the stress of the unknown. However, once full production began, a notice was sent out advising that orders would be shipped as produced according to the order queue and that if anyone was unwilling to endure the wait, they had a final opportunity to cancel. Customers were required to positively confirm their desire to remain in the order queue and accept the order terms.
Pre-Order terms for new orders were updated on the website on April 1, 2013. The terms state, "I accept the terms of the sale and understand that all sales are final and there is a backlog of orders and production & delivery of my order may take 2 months or longer."
As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected.
Here is the relevant FTC guideline text:
"when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
www.butterflyabs.com FAQ internet site snapshots researched on Internet Archives WayBackMachine
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.butterflylabs.com/
Jan 23 2013 FAQ
Can I get a refund on my pre-order?
Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late November or early December 2012. Your pre-order with payment confirms your place in line for delivery once we begin shipping. Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.
Feb 26, 2013
FAQ:Refund Request
Question:
I submitted a refund request to [email protected] but haven't heard back yet. When can I expect confirmation?
Answer:
3-4 workdays to start the refund process
7 workdays for wire
2-3 workdays for Paypal or bitcoin
April 30, 2013 - July 25, 2013
Can I get a refund on my pre-order?
All sales are final unless we fail to perform. That means if we do not ship any machine at all. If you would really like a refund anyway, just ask and we'll probably be able to take care of you. Nonetheless, we reserve the right to handle it on a case by case basis.
Refunds usually take 3-4 days to begin the process. If you paid with a bank wire, it will take an additional week or so for the funds to appear in your account. PayPal and Bitcoin refunds can take 2-3 days for the funds to appear in your account.
Bitcoin payments and refunds are processed through a third-party vendor. The amount refunded is based on the US Dollar equivalent at the time the transaction is initiated.
Presently Aug 7, 2013
Can I get a refund on my order?
A
While we reserve the right to handle refund requests on a case by case basis, pre-ordered products are non-refundable as is clearly stated at the time of purchase. The reason for this is that pre-order funds are used in the build process which makes it impractical to reverse. It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change. This has created an enormous customer service burden which is resolved by enforcing the all sales final policy.
Some customers have asked why we've given order cancelation refunds to others, but they can't get one. The answer is that we had opted to process order cancelation requests during our long product development phase as a courtesy to those who endured the stress of the unknown. However, once full production began, a notice was sent out advising that orders would be shipped as produced according to the order queue and that if anyone was unwilling to endure the wait, they had a final opportunity to cancel. Customers were required to positively confirm their desire to remain in the order queue and accept the order terms.
Pre-Order terms for new orders were updated on the website on April 1, 2013. The terms state, "I accept the terms of the sale and understand that all sales are final and there is a backlog of orders and production & delivery of my order may take 2 months or longer."
As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected.
Here is the relevant FTC guideline text:
"when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
That's a pretty logical cover your ass statement from BFL clearly defining where they stand as a business that wishes to prospect itself. I cannot see there is wrongdoing at there end from that statement alone. That said it does not effect consumer protection on credit cards which will cover you, however I fully agree with Butterfly Labs in that you should not be 'hedging' bets against ASIC firms allowing them to use those funds for R&D in the belief your intentions are sincere and then dropping ASIC vendors like hot stones at your whim. That's not only irresponsible for customers to do that, that is fraudulent.
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