YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL - page 28.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

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Quote from: ECore on August 03, 2013, 09:14:19 AM

I find it ironic that a group of bitcoiners are sitting around applauding paypal for returning money to a customer. Roll Eyes

I find it ironic that a group of people slate a company for holding their money hostage, when the only person holding their money hostage is themselves.

Truly, it shows the level of research people are willing to do before investing in these companies, or anything of that matter is none. None at all.

Far easier to throw around the word scam over and over and exhaust yourself mentally believing you're funds are being held hostage, than to call your bank and have a reasonable conversation with the last in the fraud dept of your ccard and state this transaction is well overdue from the original anticipated date of delivery and get a refund there. It's what you pay APR of 15+% on the things for!

dudeofthestick

member

Activity: 78

Merit: 10

Just sent an email to [email protected] explaining everything.

I asked for a refund to BFL and they rejected. Then I filed a Dispute in PayPal and was rejected because of the 45 days window. Let's try now with the email to fraud.

If I get a refund I will inform you.

CoinHoarder

legendary

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: ECore on August 03, 2013, 09:14:19 AM

I find it ironic that a group of bitcoiners are sitting around applauding paypal for returning money to a customer. Roll Eyes

lol, good point

ECore

sr. member

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https://ubikiri.com/

I find it ironic that a group of bitcoiners are sitting around applauding paypal for returning money to a customer. Roll Eyes

Lohoris

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Bitgoblin

Quote from: solitude on August 03, 2013, 01:13:03 AM

The whole situation is disgusting, taking advantage of peoples greed and making empty promises of shipping dates which never happen.

Greed make people stupid, and while it is still wrong to exploit that, they are both equally at fault.
The exploiters because they are evil, and the greedy because they shut down their brain and fuck you should never do that, or you at least partly deserve what happens to you.

Bitcoinorama

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Quote from: Unacceptable on August 03, 2013, 02:13:40 AM

Quote from: Xian01 on August 03, 2013, 02:06:36 AM

Quote from: solitude on August 03, 2013, 01:13:03 AM

ASIC's are a scam whether or not people ended up getting them eventaully.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Bitcoin ASIC's are most definitely not a scam.

Perhaps some companies are scams, but to say that Bitcoin ASIC's are a scam is not accurate.

In a way they are,the more that is bought by the public,the more YOU need to buy to keep in the game & it will never end Roll Eyes

I've done the math,I'd need to double MY hashrate every 500-750TH .....................

I'm buying myself,when someone can produce in a decent time frame,like buy it now,get it now.......not 6 months to a year or more later Roll Eyes

Supply and demand, only because human greed outweighs the need to research and make an informed choice.

You either find means for cheap electricity at somepoint or walk away...

Unacceptable

legendary

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Quote from: Xian01 on August 03, 2013, 02:06:36 AM

Quote from: solitude on August 03, 2013, 01:13:03 AM

ASIC's are a scam whether or not people ended up getting them eventaully.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Bitcoin ASIC's are most definitely not a scam.

Perhaps some companies are scams, but to say that Bitcoin ASIC's are a scam is not accurate.

In a way they are,the more that is bought by the public,the more YOU need to buy to keep in the game & it will never end Roll Eyes

I've done the math,I'd need to double MY hashrate every 500-750TH .....................

I'm buying myself,when someone can produce in a decent time frame,like buy it now,get it now.......not 6 months to a year or more later Roll Eyes

Xian01

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Christian Antkow

Quote from: solitude on August 03, 2013, 01:13:03 AM

ASIC's are a scam whether or not people ended up getting them eventaully.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Bitcoin ASIC's are most definitely not a scam.

Perhaps some companies are scams, but to say that Bitcoin ASIC's are a scam is not accurate.

solitude

hero member

Activity: 674

Merit: 500

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on August 02, 2013, 08:15:08 PM

Quote from: solitude on August 02, 2013, 08:01:07 PM

I didn't bother contacting BFL or filing an official dispute through Paypal because I knew the outcome of both

I simply called Paypal and explained how BFL was scamming everyone, was told they couldn't do anything because outside 45 days, I bitched and moaned some more, they opened dispute

BFL had like 11 days to prove they shipped me a miner, and they ignored the claim. I was refunded afterwards.

Don't give up when they give you the "outside 45 day" nonsense.

And stop buying asic preorders, tehy're all scams 100% guaranteed.

That last line is crap. Sounds like you got your refund through pure bludgeoning Paypal until they conceded, I don't know when you placed your order, but if it was after march this year and in any case if it has taken you this long for a refund, more fool you for not performing any due diligence.

Sure if you consider "bludgeoning" to be on the phone with one single paypal rep telling them how I've been a paypal customer since forever. I guess I'm just persuasive because I ordered back in Februrary.

Also ASIC's are a scam whether or not people ended up getting them eventaully. It's not in these cocksuckers best interest to ship you your ASIC anytime soon, and since they don't have to, they won't.

Given the time-sensitive nature of bitcoin miners, pre-ordering them with no honest-to-god guarantee of delivery date is fucking retarded.

The whole situation is disgusting, taking advantage of peoples greed and making empty promises of shipping dates which never happen.

The only thing shipping is some shitty block erupter which won't even make ROI ever, yet people still buy it.

ninjaboon

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1002

Good to see you've got your refund back.
Now you can order Bitfury, K1 miners or ASICminer BTC miners.

vcsmith

newbie

Activity: 43

Merit: 0

Quote from: investr on August 02, 2013, 10:31:24 PM

Please share your emails + language in a public gist.

This was my e-mail to [email protected] :

Quote

Hi,

I used PayPal to place a pre-order with Butterfly Labs on xx-xx-xx for $xxx.xx.

This order has still not been filled.

I politely requested a refund on xx-xx-xx and was declined on xx-xx-xx.

Today I filed Dispute #PP-xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx. This dispute was closed for being outside the 45-day window.

The seller has violated your terms of service which clearly state that the seller "Guarantees shipment within 20 days from the date of purchase".

The seller is continuing to accept pre-orders for a product that they can not ship within any reasonable amount of time. In fact, they do not even pretend to be honoring your 20-day limit.

I have been a PayPal customer for x years. While I realize that this payment is beyond the 45-day limit, I believe PayPal should honor my request for a refund as the seller is still using PayPal to receive pre-order payments in a manner that clearly violates your terms of service.

Many people may be harmed financially by this seller if PayPal doesn't step in.

Regards,

Me

CoinHoarder

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL*

* If you payed by paypal

Ytterbium

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on August 02, 2013, 04:50:00 PM

It's because of this I've been scratching my head about this whole BFL non-refund issue. I would never have paid for pre-order with an anonymous unprotected currency irrespective of supporting the greater good as pre-orders with Bitcoin payment are a scammers wet dream (ref: Cedartec.net, ASICrigs.com)

If you have a lot of BTC from early mining, it can be a pain in the ass to convert it to fiat just to buy more bitcoin equipment.

Quote from: solitude on August 02, 2013, 08:01:07 PM

And stop buying asic preorders, tehy're all scams 100% guaranteed.

OMFG dude. Avalon was only about month and half late with Batch 2, and a couple months late with Batch 3 (which is shipping now if you check the thread). Apparently some people had problems, but most people got their units.

investr

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Please share your emails + language in a public gist.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

cdog

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Merit: 500

If Paypal can seriously reverse an ACH transaction all the way back from the beginning of the year, Im going to be impressed. These are both companies Im not big fans of, but in this case I will actually give Paypal major kudos if they can get my $,$$$ back. The lesser of two evils, and they lose their fee for enabling BFL scumbags Grin

I think now Im much better off just taking the dough and buying BTC or LTC with it. I dont think BFL will deliver any 2013 orders for Singles before 2014, at which point the difficulty will likely be so high (150-300M+) that making back my investment may not be possible.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: solitude on August 02, 2013, 08:01:07 PM

I didn't bother contacting BFL or filing an official dispute through Paypal because I knew the outcome of both

I simply called Paypal and explained how BFL was scamming everyone, was told they couldn't do anything because outside 45 days, I bitched and moaned some more, they opened dispute

BFL had like 11 days to prove they shipped me a miner, and they ignored the claim. I was refunded afterwards.

Don't give up when they give you the "outside 45 day" nonsense.

And stop buying asic preorders, tehy're all scams 100% guaranteed.

That last line is crap. Sounds like you got your refund through pure bludgeoning Paypal until they conceded, I don't know when you placed your order, but if it was after march this year and in any case if it has taken you this long for a refund, more fool you for not performing any due diligence.

solitude

hero member

Activity: 674

Merit: 500

I didn't bother contacting BFL or filing an official dispute through Paypal because I knew the outcome of both

I simply called Paypal and explained how BFL was scamming everyone, was told they couldn't do anything because outside 45 days, I bitched and moaned some more, they opened dispute

BFL had like 11 days to prove they shipped me a miner, and they ignored the claim. I was refunded afterwards.

Don't give up when they give you the "outside 45 day" nonsense.

And stop buying asic preorders, tehy're all scams 100% guaranteed.

dhenson

legendary

Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: vcsmith on August 02, 2013, 12:55:49 PM

I recently received a full refund from BFL for an order I placed several months ago.

I know, I know, BFL claims that "all sales are final". Well, there's "final", and then there's "final"...

It took a month, but here's what worked for me:

I sent an email to [email protected] in which I politely requested a refund.
About a week later, I received a reply from BFL denying my request.
I filed a dispute with PayPal. In this dispute I noted that BFL failed to deliver, denied my refund request, and violated PayPal's Terms of Service for pre-order sales.
PayPal closed my dispute the same day, stating that I was outside the 45-day window.
I called PayPal's customer service and complained about my dispute being closed, and explained to PayPal exactly how BFL is violating the ToS.
I sent an email to [email protected] in which I listed my transaction and dispute number, and explained how BFL is violating the ToS.
A few days later, a PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor called me on the phone. He had already spoken to BFL and assured me that BFL would be contacting me. I told him that I just wanted a refund, and explained to him how BFL is violating the ToS.
I waited a week to give BFL plenty of time to contact me. They didn't.
I emailed the PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor and told him that BFL had not contacted me. He seemed shocked. I wasn't. He told me that PayPal could take action against BFL if necessary.
The PayPal Customer Solutions Supervisor escalated my dispute to the next level (whatever that is). He told me that someone else would call.
The next day I received a call from a guy named Bruce at BFL. He told me that since I had complained to PayPal, BFL was placing my order "under review" and taking it out of the queue. From his tone, I got the impression that Bruce thought this would bother me. I told him that I didn't need a review, I just wanted my money back. He wouldn't give me a firm answer and just kept repeating that they were placing my order "under review" and taking it out of the queue. I even asked if this review would take a day, week, month, or year. No answer, just the same "under review" statement.
Within 5 minutes of BFL's call, an Account Representative from PayPal called. I told her about the strange conversation with Bruce. She said that she would contact BFL again.
My payment to BFL was refunded to my PayPal account the next business day.

IMHO, this is the bottom line:

BFL needs PayPal. If you want your money back, complain to PayPal and don't give up.

My process was very similar and I to received a refund. However, I did not get the $95 expedited shipping back, but meh, something is better than nothing.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Lohoris on August 02, 2013, 05:12:58 PM

I'm still a bit shocked there are still some people waiting for an order.
They wouldn't recognise a scam if he bit them in the nose...

Benefit of going away your hardware free to unscrupulous journalists. Many do no research, even when the make it as far as this forum.

That said I'm not of the opinion Josh had ill-intentions. I believe he was overly confident they could deliver and had too much pride to loose face and is under a great deal of stress that vents as frustration through poor social skills, compounded by a lot of customers that did no research and won't take responsibility for their own actions. Pre-orders always have an inherent risk. They were able to make the devices, not to spec, which was a risk and not within the promised time, again a risk customers agreed to take de to the nature of bleeding edge tech. I won't judge the guy from the forum, but promising two weeks and knowing that's not at all feasible is not cool. Likely it wasn't his decision either, but he was told to say this by poor management and now he is being demonised.

Topic: YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL - page 28. (Read 45622 times)