You got a pifzer ? Then you can be eligible for lottery in Poland. - page 6.

snipie

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 25, 2021, 10:51:49 AM

To be honest, I don't really trust all these findings, and strange that their sharp surge began after vaccines were invented and began to be widely used. In the first year of the pandemic, nothing like this was observed. This prompts certain thoughts. At the moment, the newest strain is very actively infecting vaccinated people, I do not really understand the meaning of vaccination in this case.
I am looking forward to the development of events with interest, but it seems to me that humanity will have to return to the Swedish model (early) and just survive covid like the flu.

Wrong. The Swedish model is a big failure, the death rate is 3x World's mean and even politicians there admitted their mistake.
Herd immunity alone is a joke and will never be achievable with this virus since every damn mutation might infect people again and again. I know many people who was contaminated twice and thrice and yes symptoms aren't mild in all cases.
To resolve this problem once for all, ALL countries have to achieve +90% vaccination coverage in few weeks. Like that the risk of having a new mutant will be very low and we can get ride of it. Otherwise we will keep living with +50% "features" locked!
BTW Poland made a clever way to encourage people getting the shots, other countries are giving money...

SaShiRaJaVu

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Quote from: goinmerry on July 25, 2021, 10:18:22 AM

Because the mindset of everyone is not the same. People are worried because they think that vaccines are made rush even, in reality, it was rush in the sense that it was prioritized and focused by health experts around the world and done countless clinical trials.

Lets be real, how many clinical trails can be done from the pandemic started till the vaccines started to come out for commercial use. It will be a record in modern history that they came out with a vaccines without much clinical trial and then expect everyone to trust them.

Quote from: goinmerry on July 25, 2021, 10:18:22 AM

To convince those doubters that don't want to hear the real benefits of the Covid-19 vaccine, there are lots of things and benefits offered to them just to convinced them to undergo vaccine and lottery is one of the examples.

You can provide incentives and attract people but that does not make it trust able for everyone, i do not fall for these antics even though i am not against vaccines but i want a 100% certainty that it is safe and anything below that i will not administrate.

Naficopa

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 22, 2021, 02:15:06 PM

Quote from: Naficopa on July 22, 2021, 01:17:34 PM

The point is, many people is affraid of these vaccines. They have been approved without a complete clinical examination - for which it takes several years, not several months. But overall they should help, so for the government is better spend a proportionately small amount of money for prizes and encouraging people to get vaccinated than risking another wave of infections and paying for treatment in hospitals. In my opinion, this is about math and expenses.

When we talk about mathematics, we mean global values (at least in this case), but what will the government say if a person dies from vaccinations (there have already been a lot of such cases), which he went to make because of the incentive to get a prize? In such specific cases, it will look as immoral and fraudulent as possible.

This is just a prize and it is only one of the vaccines available. Everyone can still decide whether they want to be vaccinated or not. I agree with you that this is a risk, but anyway I believe that vaccination is than leave virus without reaction to the end of clinical research. Even if someone believes they are immune to the virus, there is still a possibility that they will spread the virus and infect others. Even if the statistics related to coronavirus deaths are inflated, I'm sure there will be far fewer deaths among vaccinated people.

However, if we look at it as a gambling (lottery) related to human health, it does indeed look very unethical. But what can we expect from politicians !?

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 25, 2021, 10:51:49 AM

To be honest, I don't really trust all these findings, and strange that their sharp surge began after vaccines were invented and began to be widely used. In the first year of the pandemic, nothing like this was observed. This prompts certain thoughts. At the moment, the newest strain is very actively infecting vaccinated people, I do not really understand the meaning of vaccination in this case.
I am looking forward to the development of events with interest, but it seems to me that humanity will have to return to the Swedish model (early) and just survive covid like the flu.

Can't agree with this assumption. Because only one variant has been reported from countries that have achieved a good vaccination coverage (Kent variant, from the United Kingdom). No variants have been reported from the EU, US or China, where the maximum doses of the vaccine has been administered. Maximum number of mutant strains have been reported from Brazil, India, South Africa and Colombia, where the vaccination coverage is lower than the global average (although Brazil has significantly increased it's vaccination rate over the last 1-2 months).

KTChampions

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 25, 2021, 08:21:33 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 25, 2021, 05:18:05 AM

But as we know from European countries, the statistics were distorted not only towards a decrease in deaths from covid, but also towards an increase - when death for any reason (but with an accompanying covid) was recorded as death from covid.
I strongly doubt that we can make any adequate estimates based on official data from corrupt government organizations.
I think we should wait for more or less objective factors that are almost impossible to distort - for example, excess mortality. If this strain is so terrible (I don't believe it) then we should see a major jump in this figure.

P.S. By the way, this morning I read on Twitter that it seems that a new strain has already been identified that is even more infectious and deadly. This series will never end Grin

It is strange that the releases of the new episodes of this series coincide with the massive demonstrations against lockdowns that have covered many countries now Roll Eyes

New strains are being reported from all over the world. Even the Delta strain in India has mutated into an even more contagious strain called Delta plus. Right now the focus is on this strain, because it is causing a lot of damage to countries such as Indonesia and Thailand. Even the UK has reported a spike in number of new infections, due to this particular strain. Dozens of strains have been identified till now, and one other strain that has been studied widely is the Colombian strain (B.1.621), that has spread to other countries.

To be honest, I don't really trust all these findings, and strange that their sharp surge began after vaccines were invented and began to be widely used. In the first year of the pandemic, nothing like this was observed. This prompts certain thoughts. At the moment, the newest strain is very actively infecting vaccinated people, I do not really understand the meaning of vaccination in this case.
I am looking forward to the development of events with interest, but it seems to me that humanity will have to return to the Swedish model (early) and just survive covid like the flu.

qwertyup23

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Quote from: hahay on July 20, 2021, 10:41:24 PM

I don't understand what their purpose is to give gifts to those who are vaccinated because after all, in the end if this virus really exists then vaccination will definitely be done, right?
So, all choices return to each individual, if they still want protection and safety for themselves then of course they will also vaccinate and that is enough with an appeal and not because of getting a prize or lottery.

The purpose of giving any benefits/prizes to people who are vaccinated is to at least compel people to get vaccinated. There are lots of people that are unvaccinated who spread false information about it. The problem is, most people who are unvaccinated believe these conspiracy theories which affects the general public in the transmission of the virus.

By providing any prizes or privileges to the vaccinated, even if you do not believe that vaccines work, there is a higher chance that you would comply due to the prizes given. Unfortunately, when anti-vaxxers become very close-minded, the only way to compel them to get vaccinated is to provide monetary benefits.

BuNga_cute

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Quote from: goinmerry on July 25, 2021, 10:18:22 AM

Quote from: hahay on July 20, 2021, 10:41:24 PM

I don't understand what their purpose is to give gifts to those who are vaccinated because after all, in the end if this virus really exists then vaccination will definitely be done, right? So, all choices return to each individual, if they still want protection and safety for themselves then of course they will also vaccinate and that is enough with an appeal and not because of getting a prize or lottery.

Because the mindset of everyone is not the same. People are worried because they think that vaccines are made rush even, in reality, it was rush in the sense that it was prioritized and focused by health experts around the world and done countless clinical trials.

To convince those doubters that don't want to hear the real benefits of the Covid-19 vaccine, there are lots of things and benefits offered to them just to convinced them to undergo vaccine and lottery is one of the examples.

Everyone's mindset is different, so not a few people refuse to be injected with vaccines because they doubt the vaccine is really safe. Although there is
a lot of evidence and explanations from health experts that say vaccines are safe for humans, it still can't convince everyone. Therefore, there is a need
for other ways to make the doubters change their minds, and one of them is by offering a lottery. Usually people when it comes to prize money, are
always interested and enthusiastic. Especially with the current situation where so many people are experiencing a financial crisis. The lottery offered
by the Polish government should make many people interested in injecting the vaccine.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: goinmerry on July 25, 2021, 10:18:22 AM

Because the mindset of everyone is not the same. People are worried because they think that vaccines are made rush even, in reality, it was rush in the sense that it was prioritized and focused by health experts around the world and done countless clinical trials.

To convince those doubters that don't want to hear the real benefits of the Covid-19 vaccine, there are lots of things and benefits offered to them just to convinced them to undergo vaccine and lottery is one of the examples.

I feel bad for the scientists who worked really hard to develop these vaccines. Offering freebies and lotteries to those who are reluctant to get vaccinated is like insulting these individuals. It is giving an indirect message that the vaccines are not good enough and therefore the government needs to encourage people to get vaccinated by handing out offers. But then, it is necessary as well. If a large group of people remain unvaccinated, then it gets hard to achieve herd immunity and the possibility of further mutations of the virus will also be greater.

goinmerry

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Quote from: hahay on July 20, 2021, 10:41:24 PM

I don't understand what their purpose is to give gifts to those who are vaccinated because after all, in the end if this virus really exists then vaccination will definitely be done, right? So, all choices return to each individual, if they still want protection and safety for themselves then of course they will also vaccinate and that is enough with an appeal and not because of getting a prize or lottery.

Because the mindset of everyone is not the same. People are worried because they think that vaccines are made rush even, in reality, it was rush in the sense that it was prioritized and focused by health experts around the world and done countless clinical trials.

To convince those doubters that don't want to hear the real benefits of the Covid-19 vaccine, there are lots of things and benefits offered to them just to convinced them to undergo vaccine and lottery is one of the examples.

Vishnu.Reang

sr. member

Activity: 1974

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Quote from: Fredomago on July 25, 2021, 09:02:55 AM

Some still thinks that way,

those who are paranoid about the possible side effects continue to decline what the government is asking them to do,
they are more on doubting instead of thinking positively.

And yes, it's a win-win to those who'll going to accept the vaccines, just take it as protecting your life while having that
opportunities to win huge amount of money from the lottery.

Personally I find it odd that the government has to provide the vaccines for free, and at the same time convince the population with offers such as lotteries. Here in India, a lot of misinformation is being spread regarding the vaccines and the government hasn't done much to stop it. Whenever they took some action to curb such propaganda, the supreme court told them to stay out, as it was termed as suppressing the freedom of speech. In the end, the anti-vaxxers not only harm themselves, but also others who listen to them. Check this news, from the United States about one such individual who refused the vaccines:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57958358

Fredomago

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Quote from: Mahanton on July 20, 2021, 06:28:47 PM

If they werent serious then they wont really mind on taking actions or showing of some concerns on how they would treat out their citizens and also its also a privileged for those

people who do get a chance on getting a ticket after doing a thing which is really also protecting their lives and thinking or seeing the whole picture then its really a win-win situation for the citizen.

They are really just too paranoid when it comes to side effects as if they are minding that much off that those things will kill them.

Some still thinks that way,

those who are paranoid about the possible side effects continue to decline what the government is asking them to do,
they are more on doubting instead of thinking positively.

And yes, it's a win-win to those who'll going to accept the vaccines, just take it as protecting your life while having that
opportunities to win huge amount of money from the lottery.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 25, 2021, 05:18:05 AM

But as we know from European countries, the statistics were distorted not only towards a decrease in deaths from covid, but also towards an increase - when death for any reason (but with an accompanying covid) was recorded as death from covid.
I strongly doubt that we can make any adequate estimates based on official data from corrupt government organizations.
I think we should wait for more or less objective factors that are almost impossible to distort - for example, excess mortality. If this strain is so terrible (I don't believe it) then we should see a major jump in this figure.

P.S. By the way, this morning I read on Twitter that it seems that a new strain has already been identified that is even more infectious and deadly. This series will never end Grin

It is strange that the releases of the new episodes of this series coincide with the massive demonstrations against lockdowns that have covered many countries now Roll Eyes

New strains are being reported from all over the world. Even the Delta strain in India has mutated into an even more contagious strain called Delta plus. Right now the focus is on this strain, because it is causing a lot of damage to countries such as Indonesia and Thailand. Even the UK has reported a spike in number of new infections, due to this particular strain. Dozens of strains have been identified till now, and one other strain that has been studied widely is the Colombian strain (B.1.621), that has spread to other countries.

KTChampions

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Quote from: Sithara007 on July 24, 2021, 11:42:15 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 24, 2021, 07:20:53 AM

Quote

During this period, the city witnessed 25,699 fresh Covid-19 cases and 1,797 deaths.

I think this is another example of a statistics curve. There are more than 8 million inhabitants in Bangalore, and only 25 thousand are infected by the "terribly contagious disease"? Roll Eyes

I think that only one conclusion can be drawn from this data: very few tests are done there and only almost fatal cases of infection are recorded. If we take into account all those who are easily tolerated or asymptomatic, then this terrible 7 percent will turn into tenths of a percent, as in all other countries.

Can't fully agree with your statement. Obviously some infections were not reported, but there was an under-count with the deaths as well. The real death toll in India from the second wave (April-May 2021) was somewhere around 4-5 million. But the officials reported it at around 1/20th of that number.

There were 4.9 million excess deaths during this period:
https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/2nd-covid-wave-was-india-worst-tragedy-since-partition-saw-up-to-49-lakh-excess-deaths-1830894-2021-07-21

So it may not be 7%, but 3% or 4%. Still I don't believe that it may be 0.1% or 0.2% as you claim. And Delhi was the worst affected city during the second wave (not Bangalore, where the majority of the case were not from Delta). Almost every family I know in Delhi lost at least one member during this period. Many of them were in their 30s or 40s and didn't had any comorbidity.

But as we know from European countries, the statistics were distorted not only towards a decrease in deaths from covid, but also towards an increase - when death for any reason (but with an accompanying covid) was recorded as death from covid.
I strongly doubt that we can make any adequate estimates based on official data from corrupt government organizations.
I think we should wait for more or less objective factors that are almost impossible to distort - for example, excess mortality. If this strain is so terrible (I don't believe it) then we should see a major jump in this figure.

P.S. By the way, this morning I read on Twitter that it seems that a new strain has already been identified that is even more infectious and deadly. This series will never end Grin

It is strange that the releases of the new episodes of this series coincide with the massive demonstrations against lockdowns that have covered many countries now Roll Eyes

Sithara007

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 24, 2021, 07:20:53 AM

Quote

During this period, the city witnessed 25,699 fresh Covid-19 cases and 1,797 deaths.

I think this is another example of a statistics curve. There are more than 8 million inhabitants in Bangalore, and only 25 thousand are infected by the "terribly contagious disease"? Roll Eyes

I think that only one conclusion can be drawn from this data: very few tests are done there and only almost fatal cases of infection are recorded. If we take into account all those who are easily tolerated or asymptomatic, then this terrible 7 percent will turn into tenths of a percent, as in all other countries.

Can't fully agree with your statement. Obviously some infections were not reported, but there was an under-count with the deaths as well. The real death toll in India from the second wave (April-May 2021) was somewhere around 4-5 million. But the officials reported it at around 1/20th of that number.

There were 4.9 million excess deaths during this period:
https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/2nd-covid-wave-was-india-worst-tragedy-since-partition-saw-up-to-49-lakh-excess-deaths-1830894-2021-07-21

So it may not be 7%, but 3% or 4%. Still I don't believe that it may be 0.1% or 0.2% as you claim. And Delhi was the worst affected city during the second wave (not Bangalore, where the majority of the case were not from Delta). Almost every family I know in Delhi lost at least one member during this period. Many of them were in their 30s or 40s and didn't had any comorbidity.

KTChampions

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Quote from: Sithara007 on July 23, 2021, 11:42:04 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 23, 2021, 06:23:06 AM

7% ?

Do you really believe it?
Tomorrow they will say that the mortality rate is 70%, and the day after tomorrow - 700% Grin

Do you remember how this "pandemic" began? All these videos from China with people who fell in the middle of the street and died ... Something like this I have not seen anywhere else later. And I lived for two years already in a pandemic and none of my friends died, although many were sick, but the symptoms were similar to the usual flu.

I have to disagree with you, because I have seen people dying in front of my own eyes. When the pandemic started, it was widely believed that only the elderly people are at risk. And for the original strain it was true. Until 2021 March or so, the mortality rate in India was only around 1% and it was near zero for those less than 45 years of age. But all the hell broke loose in April. The Delta strain spread to every nook and corner of India and the mortality just sky-rocketed. The 7% figure that I had posted is from a study in the city of Bangalore. Link here: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/covid-19-7-fatality-rate-last-week-is-bengalurus-highest-ever-this-year/articleshow/83296528.cms

And more worryingly, the mortality rate for the younger people went up by around 20x, from 0.1% to around 2%. In my neighborhood, the majority of the COVID deaths during the last 3-4 months were those who aged below 45 years.

Hmmm...

Quote

During this period, the city witnessed 25,699 fresh Covid-19 cases and 1,797 deaths.

I think this is another example of a statistics curve. There are more than 8 million inhabitants in Bangalore, and only 25 thousand are infected by the "terribly contagious disease"? Roll Eyes

I think that only one conclusion can be drawn from this data: very few tests are done there and only almost fatal cases of infection are recorded. If we take into account all those who are easily tolerated or asymptomatic, then this terrible 7 percent will turn into tenths of a percent, as in all other countries.

Sithara007

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 23, 2021, 06:23:06 AM

7% ?

Do you really believe it?
Tomorrow they will say that the mortality rate is 70%, and the day after tomorrow - 700% Grin

Do you remember how this "pandemic" began? All these videos from China with people who fell in the middle of the street and died ... Something like this I have not seen anywhere else later. And I lived for two years already in a pandemic and none of my friends died, although many were sick, but the symptoms were similar to the usual flu.

I have to disagree with you, because I have seen people dying in front of my own eyes. When the pandemic started, it was widely believed that only the elderly people are at risk. And for the original strain it was true. Until 2021 March or so, the mortality rate in India was only around 1% and it was near zero for those less than 45 years of age. But all the hell broke loose in April. The Delta strain spread to every nook and corner of India and the mortality just sky-rocketed. The 7% figure that I had posted is from a study in the city of Bangalore. Link here: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/covid-19-7-fatality-rate-last-week-is-bengalurus-highest-ever-this-year/articleshow/83296528.cms

And more worryingly, the mortality rate for the younger people went up by around 20x, from 0.1% to around 2%. In my neighborhood, the majority of the COVID deaths during the last 3-4 months were those who aged below 45 years.

KTChampions

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Quote from: Sithara007 on July 23, 2021, 12:27:29 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 22, 2021, 02:15:06 PM

When we talk about mathematics, we mean global values (at least in this case), but what will the government say if a person dies from vaccinations (there have already been a lot of such cases), which he went to make because of the incentive to get a prize? In such specific cases, it will look as immoral and fraudulent as possible.

Many of the governments have published data on adverse affects reported after the vaccination. A have seen one such report from Argentina, which claims that 2 out of 1 million doses have resulted in death. That translates to a possibility of 0.0002%. So what do you prefer? A 0.0002% chance of dying from the vaccine, or 7% chance of dying from the delta variant (as reported from India)? I am not saying that you need to trust the government figures. In reality, it may be 0.002% instead of 0.0002%. But even then, there is a huge difference between 0.002% and 7%.

7% ?

Do you really believe it?
Tomorrow they will say that the mortality rate is 70%, and the day after tomorrow - 700% Grin

Do you remember how this "pandemic" began? All these videos from China with people who fell in the middle of the street and died ... Something like this I have not seen anywhere else later. And I lived for two years already in a pandemic and none of my friends died, although many were sick, but the symptoms were similar to the usual flu.

traderethereum

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Quote from: smyslov on July 22, 2021, 05:21:20 PM

Quote from: shield132 on July 20, 2021, 06:44:13 PM

As I know it's hard for countries to get the Pfizer vaccine and I don't think they have a surplus of it (idk to be fair) but I also don't know whats wrong with Moderna? I understand that Sputnik V is a Russian vaccine and Poland people don't like Russia but what's wrong with other vaccines for them?

They are all the same they have undergone clinical studies and have passed regulatory and testing I have been vaccinated by China's vaccine and although I was lucky to have a choice of other vaccines then if I only wait, I got the vaccine that is available, people should not be picky if there are available just go for it, especially if you are living in a third world country like me, the most important is you get vaccinated.

I think that will because that country has a bilateral relationship with the country that produces the vaccine so their government only allow some company from that country.
But the important thing is the government is trying to get the vaccine from the health company to distribute to their hospital or the other health center.
Getting vaccinated will be important as that is one thing that the government concern about so far to help their citizen and give more protection to prevent the virus.
Hopefully, people's awareness will increase and they will want to get vaccinated.

verita1

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The world is upside down. While there are people who want to get vaccinated, others do not want to. It is obvious that the Polish government is doing everything possible so that its population makes the determination to get vaccinated against Covid19. The incentives are magnificent, I admire the country of Poland for the desire that its population is safe.

On the other hand, in my country I was entering the website where we must make an appointment for a notification to arrive indicating the day of vaccination and I have noticed that my city does not appear on the list. I think the website needs updating.

I would like to add something from a Covid19 case. A famous singer from my country after overcoming Covid19. He has suffered the sequelae of the virus and he is suffering from peripheral neuropathy, his relatives say that he has started from scratch to speak, etc. This is a message that he sent to his fans.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CRnJVVWAjU8/?utm_medium=copy_link

Chyno Miranda official YouTube channel
https://youtube.com/c/CHYNOMirandaOficial

Sithara007

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 22, 2021, 02:15:06 PM

When we talk about mathematics, we mean global values (at least in this case), but what will the government say if a person dies from vaccinations (there have already been a lot of such cases), which he went to make because of the incentive to get a prize? In such specific cases, it will look as immoral and fraudulent as possible.

Many of the governments have published data on adverse affects reported after the vaccination. A have seen one such report from Argentina, which claims that 2 out of 1 million doses have resulted in death. That translates to a possibility of 0.0002%. So what do you prefer? A 0.0002% chance of dying from the vaccine, or 7% chance of dying from the delta variant (as reported from India)? I am not saying that you need to trust the government figures. In reality, it may be 0.002% instead of 0.0002%. But even then, there is a huge difference between 0.002% and 7%.

Topic: You got a pifzer ? Then you can be eligible for lottery in Poland. - page 6. (Read 2977 times)