@ Kiklo
Mmmmm ... I would respectfully beg to differ, but will leave it to the Knights to decide. In my opinion, simply dropping to 5% in the immediate future would be premature ... and will still leave potential security holes, but these are issues most POS coins need to address.
Topic: ★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS] - page 285. (Read 1009352 times)
January 16, 2015, 08:36:57 PM
January 16, 2015, 07:44:42 PM
IJumping to 5% POS interest requires some thought and I wouldn't advise it unless we have the right infrastructure in place e.g. the ability to appreciably spend and use Zeitcoin in the real world; Android wallets; a substantial number of potential users etc. When we have all that in place, dropping to 5% will encourage people to spend and use, rather than hoard.
For the now though, 20% POS interest will tend to attract more users, while the good progress already achieved is built upon.
For the now though, 20% POS interest will tend to attract more users, while the good progress already achieved is built upon.
Hi Bainbridge,
With Coinpayments we already have some of that infrastructure in place, but it is receiving little use ,
IMO in part to our 20% interest rate, once we drop to 5% our price will rise and stablize , at that point more people will use coinpayments (increasing desire for zeitcoins). The possible future security issue just speeds up the discussion timeline.
FYI:
A Centralized Checkpoint server would defeat purpose of being Decentralized , and the only thing that would have to be attacked to damage a network would be the checkpoint servers. It would weaken the network verses making it stronger.
The Slasher algorithm is so drastic , that it is not really even a possible consideration.
The 5% will happen in 2 years anyway.
January 16, 2015, 07:44:36 PM
Bon reposte Monsieur Greer 
Merci, monsieur Lion
January 16, 2015, 07:34:17 PM
Bon reposte Monsieur Greer
kiklo, aren't you freakin' over nothing? I'm not worried by juvenile Hitlers like that, and certainly wouldn't support a hard fork to 'protect' us. I have faith in Rays ability to keep the fox out of the henhouse.
kiklo, aren't you freakin' over nothing? I'm not worried by juvenile Hitlers like that, and certainly wouldn't support a hard fork to 'protect' us. I have faith in Rays ability to keep the fox out of the henhouse.
Hopefully,
our min POS is 20 days, apex min rate was only 24hrs ,
does anyone know for certain what our max pos days are,
(the time when coin stake does not increase any higher).
I also have faith in Ray, but I like to be prepared ahead of time.
Which is why this discussion was started so early, when it is not currently a serious issue for zeit.
January 16, 2015, 07:30:53 PM
There has been some recent events that could affect the security of POS coins.
Even to the point of some attacking POS Chains.
At the moment it is not an issue for US , and I would like to keep it that way.
This idea will upset some, and it is not my intention , but we should begin a discussion of it , in case it needs to be done in the future fairly quickly to protect zeitcoin.
Their is a group of individuals forming that plan to intentionally attack POS coins.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cleanup-ill-attack-some-coins-i-owned-apexcoin-for-90-blocks-897493
And it looks like they have been successful in attacking Apexcoin with an attack.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/
Depending on how it plays out once more details are known, would the zeit community be willing to forego the year of 20% and the year of 15% and jump straight to the 5% for all time in order to save zeitcoin, if these attempts become an serious issue.
So what is everyone thoughts?
Even to the point of some attacking POS Chains.
At the moment it is not an issue for US , and I would like to keep it that way.
This idea will upset some, and it is not my intention , but we should begin a discussion of it , in case it needs to be done in the future fairly quickly to protect zeitcoin.
Their is a group of individuals forming that plan to intentionally attack POS coins.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cleanup-ill-attack-some-coins-i-owned-apexcoin-for-90-blocks-897493
And it looks like they have been successful in attacking Apexcoin with an attack.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/
Depending on how it plays out once more details are known, would the zeit community be willing to forego the year of 20% and the year of 15% and jump straight to the 5% for all time in order to save zeitcoin, if these attempts become an serious issue.
So what is everyone thoughts?
I would recommend two ways to beef up the security of any POS coin, particularly Zeitcoin:
1) Use auto-checkpoints;
2) Utilise the Slasher algorithm as suggested by Vitalik Buterin in the Cointelegraph article dated 27th December 2014 -
"In PoS ... nothing would stop someone from using 100% of their coins to mine on two forks at once. Vitalik has thought of a possible solution to this problem: an algorithm called Slasher. With this mining algorithm, a miner would only receive his block reward 3,000 blocks into the future (about 21 days). If someone were to catch an account mining on two chains at one, that person could create a special transaction that would nullify the miner's rewards and give the nullifier a third of that reward as a bounty. Therefore, there would be a strong disincentive for miners to cheat." http://cointelegraph.com/news/113203/epicenter-bitcoin-ep-58-vitalik-buterin-on-proof-of-stake-and-the-future-of-crypto-economics
Jumping to 5% POS interest requires some thought and I wouldn't advise it unless we have the right infrastructure in place e.g. the ability to appreciably spend and use Zeitcoin in the real world; Android wallets; a substantial number of potential users etc. When we have all that in place, dropping to 5% will encourage people to spend and use, rather than hoard.
For the now though, 20% POS interest will tend to attract more users, while the good progress already achieved is built upon.
January 16, 2015, 07:03:33 PM
I don't like the idea to go straight to 5%.
That would just show that zeit is weak.
If the community is strong enough the problem should be solved otherwise we or better said Zeit has no future.
I like Zeitcoin but just the strong survive.
But at least the Zeitknights will make a decision.
That would just show that zeit is weak.
If the community is strong enough the problem should be solved otherwise we or better said Zeit has no future.
I like Zeitcoin but just the strong survive.
But at least the Zeitknights will make a decision.
Understandable , but dropping to 5% would have some positive effects, the value of your zeitcoins would rise faster as the exchanges will not be loaded with people selling their stake keeping the price per zeit lower. Plus it requires you to own more zeit to be able to stake the same amount and weakens any whales out there. Don't forget we got 1 whale with 4 billion coins at the moment.
Dropping to 5% keeps a high enough rate , that we still perform better than most real world rates.
It would increase the security of the zeitcoins you already own by blocking these bashing groups.
It will happen in 2 years anyway.
You mean that someone ownes that wallet. As far as I know is that this person is " missed".
But as I said.
The Knights will make a decision. So I just wait for the decision.
January 16, 2015, 07:02:11 PM
Bon reposte Monsieur Greer
kiklo, aren't you freakin' over nothing? I'm not worried by juvenile Hitlers like that, and certainly wouldn't support a hard fork to 'protect' us. I have faith in Rays ability to keep the fox out of the henhouse.
kiklo, aren't you freakin' over nothing? I'm not worried by juvenile Hitlers like that, and certainly wouldn't support a hard fork to 'protect' us. I have faith in Rays ability to keep the fox out of the henhouse.
January 16, 2015, 06:36:35 PM
I don't like the idea to go straight to 5%.
That would just show that zeit is weak.
If the community is strong enough the problem should be solved otherwise we or better said Zeit has no future.
I like Zeitcoin but just the strong survive.
But at least the Zeitknights will make a decision.
That would just show that zeit is weak.
If the community is strong enough the problem should be solved otherwise we or better said Zeit has no future.
I like Zeitcoin but just the strong survive.
But at least the Zeitknights will make a decision.
Understandable , but dropping to 5% would have some positive effects, the value of your zeitcoins would rise faster as the exchanges will not be loaded with people selling their stake keeping the price per zeit lower. Plus it requires you to own more zeit to be able to stake the same amount and weakens any whales out there. Don't forget we got 1 whale with 4 billion coins at the moment.
Dropping to 5% keeps a high enough rate , that we still perform better than most real world rates.
It would increase the security of the zeitcoins you already own by blocking these bashing groups.
It will happen in 2 years anyway.
January 16, 2015, 06:33:02 PM
Hopefully I didn't stir up the hornet's nest for us, but I couldn't resist making a post in that thread asking the OP what gave him the right to attack coins and mess with people's investments that way. These "operation shit coin cleanout" wannabe's really sicken me.
January 16, 2015, 06:19:28 PM
If (real) mining means more security, we should think about a hybrid.
Cheers,
Ray
A Hybrid would bring additional security issues to be concerned with.
Plus a lot of the hybrids have started to realize that POS is superior to POW , and will let their coins be run mainly by POS instead of POW within a year or so, as using POS is much more profitable.
As more details emerge , we can examine if it would be an issue for zeit or something we can ignore,
just wanted to throw it out there , as dropping to 5% would kill the chance for it to bother zeitcoins.
January 16, 2015, 06:06:39 PM
I don't like the idea to go straight to 5%.
That would just show that zeit is weak.
If the community is strong enough the problem should be solved otherwise we or better said Zeit has no future.
I like Zeitcoin but just the strong survive.
But at least the Zeitknights will make a decision.
That would just show that zeit is weak.
If the community is strong enough the problem should be solved otherwise we or better said Zeit has no future.
I like Zeitcoin but just the strong survive.
But at least the Zeitknights will make a decision.
January 16, 2015, 06:02:08 PM
Ok, they've killed a dead coin. (like killing a zombie)
We have 100 wallets online - but who cares - you're right - we need some specialists.
I don't understand their goal.
Is really POS the enemy? What about those many SHA256 clones?
If (real) mining means more security, we should think about a hybrid.
Cheers,
Ray
We have 100 wallets online - but who cares - you're right - we need some specialists.
I don't understand their goal.
Is really POS the enemy? What about those many SHA256 clones?
If (real) mining means more security, we should think about a hybrid.
Cheers,
Ray
January 16, 2015, 05:46:05 PM
There has been some recent events that could affect the security of POS coins.
Even to the point of some attacking POS Chains.
At the moment it is not an issue for US , and I would like to keep it that way.
This idea will upset some, and it is not my intention , but we should begin a discussion of it , in case it needs to be done in the future fairly quickly to protect zeitcoin.
Their is a group of individuals forming that plan to intentionally attack POS coins.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cleanup-ill-attack-some-coins-i-owned-apexcoin-for-90-blocks-897493
And it looks like they have been successful in attacking Apexcoin with an attack.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/
Depending on how it plays out once more details are known, would the zeit community be willing to forego the year of 20% and the year of 15% and jump straight to the 5% for all time in order to save zeitcoin, if these attempts become an serious issue.
So what is everyone thoughts?
Even to the point of some attacking POS Chains.
At the moment it is not an issue for US , and I would like to keep it that way.
This idea will upset some, and it is not my intention , but we should begin a discussion of it , in case it needs to be done in the future fairly quickly to protect zeitcoin.
Their is a group of individuals forming that plan to intentionally attack POS coins.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cleanup-ill-attack-some-coins-i-owned-apexcoin-for-90-blocks-897493
And it looks like they have been successful in attacking Apexcoin with an attack.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/
Depending on how it plays out once more details are known, would the zeit community be willing to forego the year of 20% and the year of 15% and jump straight to the 5% for all time in order to save zeitcoin, if these attempts become an serious issue.
So what is everyone thoughts?
January 16, 2015, 05:44:10 PM
No problemo! They will get their interest when they are on 2.0.1.5.
Not a client does the job - the network is doing it.
We didn't fork. That makes the difference.
Cheers,
Ray
Not a client does the job - the network is doing it.
We didn't fork. That makes the difference.
Cheers,
Ray
January 16, 2015, 05:24:57 PM
Still more than half of all wallets are on the old protocol 
Might be a good thing if they all stop staking soon (How close are we to that now? Gotta be close.)
Might be a good thing if they all stop staking soon (How close are we to that now? Gotta be close.)
How many of those belong to huge bag holders who haven't been paying attention to this thread at all, I wonder? And what kind of chaos will those wallets with their probably huge stake amounts cause to the block chain if/when they don't update their wallets? Will the wallets simply cease staking until updated? I'm not overly concerned for the individuals who hold those wallets, as this would be their own faults for not paying attention to the community announcements. I'm more worried about any issues that this may potentially cause for the rest of us on the network.
January 16, 2015, 05:07:12 PM
lots of cheap zeit for sale at comkort 
zeit bullwhale must be terrified!
zeit bullwhale must be terrified!
I can't see buy whales or any other whales
January 16, 2015, 01:44:31 PM
lots of cheap zeit for sale at comkort
zeit bullwhale must be terrified!
zeit bullwhale must be terrified!
January 16, 2015, 01:37:39 PM
Seek the help
You need no help, you need to update. Your transaction is ok and has 22 confirmations.
http://www.multifaucet.tk/index.php?blockexplorer=ZEIT&txid=d26a9376e2944f963c0dd09a03fa4806822cc3eb47156ac72602917e8b89f408
OK. Has been resolved. GO ZEIT.
January 16, 2015, 01:27:20 PM
Any way we look at it, Zeit is doing well and is successful whether we are on LTC or BTC markets. We have weather quite a few storms in our first (almost) full year of existence.
Yeah, but I have the highest bid on Cryptsy for 24 hours now, still no buys
Were you aware that Cryptsy's Zeit wallet has been offline for "maintenance" for several weeks now? Most of us have refused to use Cryptsy until they get it fixed. In other words, your Zeit will remain unbought (yeah I know, unbought is not really a word) for now.
January 16, 2015, 01:24:35 PM
Seek the help
You need no help, you need to update. Your transaction is ok and has 22 confirmations.
http://www.multifaucet.tk/index.php?blockexplorer=ZEIT&txid=d26a9376e2944f963c0dd09a03fa4806822cc3eb47156ac72602917e8b89f408
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