Are successful gamblers seen as addicts? - page 24.

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Quote from: FanEagle on October 24, 2023, 09:53:23 AM

Please explain what is "successful". I mean if we are talking about someone who is so good that they are making their living off gambling? I am sure that it would considered a job and not addiction and nobody would say anything to them. This of course only true if they can actually make an income from it, as we all know most people can't and 99.99% of the gamblers end up losing money and that's why it doesn't really feel like a smart idea to begin with.

However, assuming that this actually works and a good idea, then I would say that it is going to change a lot. I hope that it gets to a point where we could guess that it could be a good point and they could make money but I would still consider that as a gambler and addict.

Since, it's not easy for someone to actually be able to earn money on a constant basis from gambling, I would label someone successful if they manage to not lose much money in gambling while gambling consistently because normally, if a gambler keeps gambling, they will eventually lose money to the house, but if someone manages to lose some and then win some again, and then lose some of it, and then win more than what they've lost, so basically, they should be considered successful gamblers.

However, it's not something that can be done very easily, and you can barely find gamblers who would say that they haven't lost any money in gambling so far even though they've been gambling for quite some time, maybe a few out of millions of gamblers manage to do that and that is a very small number.

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Quote from: Salahmu on October 26, 2023, 04:27:19 AM

Quote from: Obari on July 08, 2023, 03:44:50 PM

Now let's be sincere, will you also classify a successful gambler as an addict?

For me I think is all depends on there gambling because there are some gambling addicts who are very successful in gambling while there are also so many gambling addicts who does nothing but always lose money on gambling.

But however we tend to disregard the fact that if check thoroughly almost every successful gamblers is an addicts but however most people believes that an addicts can never be a successful gamblers perhaps is true but not all the time, so actually I'm not disputing the fact that there are non addicts gamblers who are successful but what I'm trying to say is that irrespective of an addicts gamblers losing money and selling of there properties to gamble there are also many of them who are very successful because I have seen someone who is an addicts on gambling and lost so many properties because of gambling but he was favoured one day and won a very huge amount of money so after then he became successful.

So in as much as we believe that every successful gamblers are non addicts gamblers perhaps there are also addicts gamblers who are very successful but the only different is that the chances of an addicts to always become successful is lower than the chances of non addicts gamblers.

The mere fact that you've spent most of your money and time in gambling, that's an addiction. Those gamblers that we classify as successful gamblers and addicts too, though they don't win every day have the means to gamble as much time and money to spend as they want because they are rich. for me, I can say that there's no successful gambler because all of them are experiencing wins and losses. I can call you a successful gambler if you know how to become responsible in your acts, decisions, and limitations.

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Quote from: Obari on July 08, 2023, 03:44:50 PM

Now let's be sincere, will you also classify a successful gambler as an addict?

For me I think is all depends on there gambling because there are some gambling addicts who are very successful in gambling while there are also so many gambling addicts who does nothing but always lose money on gambling.

But however we tend to disregard the fact that if check thoroughly almost every successful gamblers is an addicts but however most people believes that an addicts can never be a successful gamblers perhaps is true but not all the time, so actually I'm not disputing the fact that there are non addicts gamblers who are successful but what I'm trying to say is that irrespective of an addicts gamblers losing money and selling of there properties to gamble there are also many of them who are very successful because I have seen someone who is an addicts on gambling and lost so many properties because of gambling but he was favoured one day and won a very huge amount of money so after then he became successful.

So in as much as we believe that every successful gamblers are non addicts gamblers perhaps there are also addicts gamblers who are very successful but the only different is that the chances of an addicts to always become successful is lower than the chances of non addicts gamblers.

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on October 22, 2023, 04:37:57 PM

Quote from: Nerdy doctor on October 16, 2023, 11:51:15 PM

~snip~

I have said many times that a successful player is measured by what I can have won, this is something that can be deciphered for me as a successful player, for some things can be successful from the point of view that they can make a game Better , know how to play and success can be measured like this, but basically for me it is success when it is Measured by being very profitable, which is quite difficult, I think that out of 100% of players only 1% or less They are the ones that can be profitable, so basically it is the most difficult thing that can be done, I consider that things can be like that, of course I consider a person who has more money in the game to be successful, a long time ago I read that there was a person who Recently , I always win at the casino, they spend the whole day almost there and they can do many other things, so based on what they can achieve I know that it is very difficult to take this and be profitable, because if they tell me so I couldn't be it , My way of being relatable is something else.

For me, things when it comes to how to be able to have rebirth are something great, but for me personally, the strategy is very Rudimentary, it is very basic and it may not be a problem for anyone, but it is the safest Technique there is. in a casino and I extracted that from my trading strategy, and it is normal, it is like seeing the casino and trading as if we had a business, where each entry is a profit, it is about obtaining profits and about doing it safely, not It doesn't matter how little it is, but little by little and every day, it's like a business, because I think that in a casino if you don't have control of the money and don't take care of it, then in the casino you can lose almost everything, and that It is not the right thing to do, for me things have to happen naturally, for that reason one always has to make arrangements and try to ensure that the money does not go away all at once, but rather try to ensure that things are for the better and Don't Expect everything to go Away at once, money in a Casino can be very volatile.

Isn't the topic of gambling success a popular one? Everyone has a unique definition. It's all about the profits, the green, and the wealth for you. And I completely comprehend. Money speaks, and in the realm of gambling it screams! However, it is not a simple task. No mister! Few individuals, perhaps 1% or even fewer, genuinely master the art of profitable gambling. This is a difficult game, and not everyone can play

Now for the strategy. It is acceptable that you have a simple one. Fundamentals can be advantageous and secure. In the volatile and unpredictable worlds of casinos and trading, safety is essential. Control, discipline, and consistency are of utmost importance. You must be committed for the long term, not just for a quick win. This is how success is achieved: incrementally, day by day. Therefore, keep your eyes on the prize, play intelligently, and always, always, always remember: it's not how much you win, but how often you win. Best wishes for success

Yes, I am very struck by the way in which many people base themselves on the game by saying that things in the game can be very easy to play and win, and that Catches my attention, because they talk about terrible profitability in a casino, and wow, unless you're a guru, they can't guess and make you rich or be someone very profitable, because there are too many Conditions that must be met so that it's not so Easy , the House edge, the complication of the same game , the concentration of the person as such, so when we start to see the Different Ways that a person can be Profitable , it is difficult to beat, I discovered the one that I have always Applied , and we Know it is a very very Considerable strategy , it is difficult to accomplish, but very easy to do, for those who Appreciate their money , because it is something they can do, this is basically for people with a low Budget , it is Something that I have Discovered, but it is what We must still see the casino as a business.

It is difficult to tell a person to settle for Small Profits , because people like to Play in a Casino and win a lot of money at once, and things are not like that, but what if we see the casino as a business that We set up, when we are in our own business, the profits will be few, some days they will not happen, other days there will only be losses, it is normal , and it is only Common , it is Something like Trading, but this is the Responsibility of Mentality, we in a game session still want to win because when we have that gain that we should not Invent, because if we do not Comply with those Own rules that are so simpl e, we are going to lose , I say this because in part we are people who are always going to He will want much more and this is what we must do, of course it is difficult, emotion drives impulses, all this requires a Great Concession to do it we have to Change our Mindset , in a little While everything can be completed.

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Quote from: carlisle1 on October 25, 2023, 06:18:15 AM

Quote from: bitzizzix on October 24, 2023, 10:47:58 AM

As some others have said, most successful gamblers play using their skills to make a living. For them, it is likely that they will continue to be gamblers because they can only generate income from gambling by using their abilities.
However, such gamblers are very rare because they often play and play very carefully and are supported by their abilities, and maybe other people will judge it as an addiction. And in fact they also consider gambling as their job just like any other job, and they are successful because they can generate income from gambling and not just anyone.

Is a rare occasion that gambler can manage to win over the casino but likewise, with the combination of skills and good management of
both time and money, chances of winning are good.

It's just another way of taking your edge and executing that opportunity to become favorable to you.

I think by chance it can happen if control and good management can be executed perfectly, though just the same, it's a rare kind of
situation and not everyone can have this kind of mindset during the time they are playing against the house.

Most gamblers will only become addicted to gambling when they gamble without self-control, skills, and good management abilities because to become a successful gambler requires many more things that must be trained continuously. If a gambler can train until they have abilities beyond most gamblers, that gambler can use gambling as a way to make money. Of course, they will not experience gambling addiction like other gamblers experience. I agree that such gamblers are very rare to find, and if they do exist, they probably won't tell anyone because they would rather hide it from others.

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Quote from: carlisle1 on October 25, 2023, 06:18:15 AM

Quote from: bitzizzix on October 24, 2023, 10:47:58 AM

As some others have said, most successful gamblers play using their skills to make a living. For them, it is likely that they will continue to be gamblers because they can only generate income from gambling by using their abilities.
However, such gamblers are very rare because they often play and play very carefully and are supported by their abilities, and maybe other people will judge it as an addiction. And in fact they also consider gambling as their job just like any other job, and they are successful because they can generate income from gambling and not just anyone.

Is a rare occasion that gambler can manage to win over the casino but likewise, with the combination of skills and good management of
both time and money, chances of winning are good.

It's just another way of taking your edge and executing that opportunity to become favorable to you.

I think by chance it can happen if control and good management can be executed perfectly, though just the same, it's a rare kind of
situation and not everyone can have this kind of mindset during the time they are playing against the house.

Perhaps it was rare and it is because the majority had lost control of their emotions all the time.

Successful gamblers though we think that they are addicted to gambling, however, their approach seems to be fair. They know what to do and also they know their limitation as well. They're been in gambling for many years and their experience will be enough to teach them what is the right thing to do despite being addicted to it. As long as it never compromises their finances, that is still okay.

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Quote from: bitzizzix on October 24, 2023, 10:47:58 AM

As some others have said, most successful gamblers play using their skills to make a living. For them, it is likely that they will continue to be gamblers because they can only generate income from gambling by using their abilities.
However, such gamblers are very rare because they often play and play very carefully and are supported by their abilities, and maybe other people will judge it as an addiction. And in fact they also consider gambling as their job just like any other job, and they are successful because they can generate income from gambling and not just anyone.

Is a rare occasion that gambler can manage to win over the casino but likewise, with the combination of skills and good management of
both time and money, chances of winning are good.

It's just another way of taking your edge and executing that opportunity to become favorable to you.

I think by chance it can happen if control and good management can be executed perfectly, though just the same, it's a rare kind of
situation and not everyone can have this kind of mindset during the time they are playing against the house.

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Quote from: bitzizzix on October 24, 2023, 10:47:58 AM

As some others have said, most successful gamblers play using their skills to make a living. For them, it is likely that they will continue to be gamblers because they can only generate income from gambling by using their abilities.
However, such gamblers are very rare because they often play and play very carefully and are supported by their abilities, and maybe other people will judge it as an addiction. And in fact they also consider gambling as their job just like any other job, and they are successful because they can generate income from gambling and not just anyone.

Although they may be very skillful but still there is no consistent word in gambling, and even if it might be possible it will be very difficult to get. This is a mindset that is not recommended in gambling in my opinion, yes I understand you can get a win from skill-based gambling such as sports for example, but it is still quite dangerous if you make gambling your main place of income, especially for those who have a family where their responsibilities are very large.

So if you or they want to gamble or look for a little income from gambling, please but on condition that you must have a main job that is indeed promising and can support your family life outside of gambling income. Because if you only focus on gambling, as we know, even though you use skill analysis, it will still ultimately refer to luck as well, and if you are unlucky then obviously defeat will befall you. So this skill-based gambling maybe you can only make as a side income, don't overdo it because you also have to consider the risks that are there.

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Quote from: bitzizzix on October 24, 2023, 10:47:58 AM

As some others have said, most successful gamblers play using their skills to make a living. For them, it is likely that they will continue to be gamblers because they can only generate income from gambling by using their abilities.
However, such gamblers are very rare because they often play and play very carefully and are supported by their abilities, and maybe other people will judge it as an addiction. And in fact they also consider gambling as their job just like any other job, and they are successful because they can generate income from gambling and not just anyone.

But I personally do not understand what is the difference between a professional gambler and anyone else who likes to gamble in a casual way. You talk about skill and habilites, but in the reality if a game is probably fair then there would not be distinction between some novice gambler rolling dices and a "professional gambler" doing the same.
The only difference which comes to my mind about both kind of gamblers is the money management one of them can have and the way both can control their emotions, to know when they are supposed to quit their session and have profit.

If anyone came to me and told me they can generate constant wins in a reliable way while gambling, enough to make a living off it, I would be completely skeptical.

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As some others have said, most successful gamblers play using their skills to make a living. For them, it is likely that they will continue to be gamblers because they can only generate income from gambling by using their abilities.
However, such gamblers are very rare because they often play and play very carefully and are supported by their abilities, and maybe other people will judge it as an addiction. And in fact they also consider gambling as their job just like any other job, and they are successful because they can generate income from gambling and not just anyone.

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Quote from: wxa7115 on October 16, 2023, 11:07:54 PM

Besides I do not really think there is any way for an addicted gambler to become successful, since their addiction severely limits their ability to think and use their common sense.

If for example a gambler that was addicted to poker lost a big pot, instead of just waiting for good cards to come to them they will simply make big bets regardless of the strength of the cards they had, they will be left at a disadvantageous position and lose once again, and if you repeat this process a few times then the losses a poker player can suffer in a matter of minutes are enormous, showing it is almost impossible for an addicted gambler to actually become successful in a game of skill.

Agree. In contrast to successful gambling with addiction. Of course, gambling addiction cannot guarantee us success. Because if you are addicted, you cannot use common sense when gambling. This is very different from being successful in gambling because you have good strategy and control.

The addicted gambler's cycle.
- Try relying on luck.
- deposit $100, win $500 but try again all $500 so you win a lot and end up losing.
- Deposit again to return capital, finally lose again.
- And started borrowing money from friends by saying "First borrow $200, then I'll double it, and still lose.

In the end there is only regret, instead of getting richer it makes you poorer, and leaves debt everywhere.

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Please explain what is "successful". I mean if we are talking about someone who is so good that they are making their living off gambling? I am sure that it would considered a job and not addiction and nobody would say anything to them. This of course only true if they can actually make an income from it, as we all know most people can't and 99.99% of the gamblers end up losing money and that's why it doesn't really feel like a smart idea to begin with.

However, assuming that this actually works and a good idea, then I would say that it is going to change a lot. I hope that it gets to a point where we could guess that it could be a good point and they could make money but I would still consider that as a gambler and addict.

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Quote from: Westinhome on October 23, 2023, 11:55:40 AM

Quote from: Wiwo on October 23, 2023, 11:50:18 AM

Do we even have people who take gambling as a means of livelihood because I have heard this statement several time and this have prompted me to think about the thought of his possible that is to take something as risky as gambling as a mean of income or a career unless you plan to crash along the way, but then also I am not against the responsible utilization of gambling winning into another aspect of business that will sustain the flow of income.

That way you as a successful gambler have been able to build a sustainable career using gambling rewards and not depending on the future winning to sustain those businesses since you are already aware of the risk and unpredictability of gambling.

In many ways the successful person was seems as the gambling addicted person in various countries.Many new gamblers was see the experienced gambler as the gambling addict.But they are not really the addicted person in the gambling,they are just the gambler with huge love towards the gambling.The affection for the gambling was different from the gambling addiction to the gambling.The income was the base of the amount of the dollars was used by the gamblers in the gambling sites.Ind you are the new gambler,you need to learn a lot from the gambling experiences.

They don't see that successful gamblers are people who manage to control themselves in gambling and can also make money to create something that can make money while they are still gambling as usual. They, as successful gamblers, have succeeded in overcoming the problems that arise in gambling, including overcoming gambling addiction, because they know that gambling addiction can ruin everything, including their lives. Therefore, they try not to get addicted to gambling by using many methods while trying to make money from gambling.

If someone who manages to get a very big win thinks about making something that can later provide or make money, they don't need to try as hard as before because they already have another source of income to focus on next. They are successful in using gambling as entertainment and can also make money to change their lives for the better and have a new source of income. They also will not experience gambling addiction like other people and can even enjoy gambling as entertainment and make money from other places.

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on October 23, 2023, 11:17:30 AM

~snip~
First is, it is not even right at all to take or consider gambling as a job, so, to this is say that whoever is addicted to gambling is addicted to gambling, it doesn't matter if the person takes gambling as a job or not, gambling is not even a profession, why should someone in all the professions all over the world choose to gamble as a profession? this is absolutely not right if I'm asked.

And yes, there indeed can be someone addicted gamblers who are really successful, but the ones I've seen or come in physical contact with did not actually make the money from gambling per say, they have built and established businesses that make millions of dollars or whatever currency for them, they just spend their time and money on gambling as a way for them to have fun.
This kind of people usually do not even know that they are addicted to gambling since they already have more than enough money to gamble for life and never feel the negative impact of losing money in the process .

True.

At the end of the day, a professional is basically someone that makes money from an activity.

That's why the term "go pro" is used in skating and other sports, the moment they go professional they start to earn money by doing that activity.

Any professional exchanges time for money.

Gambling though is a service that is bought by gamblers. It is basically the hope to become rich at some point. That is valued by gamblers, and they pay for it. They are not getting paid to gamble, so they are not professionals.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 23, 2023, 11:50:18 AM

Do we even have people who take gambling as a means of livelihood because I have heard this statement several time and this have prompted me to think about the thought of his possible that is to take something as risky as gambling as a mean of income or a career unless you plan to crash along the way, but then also I am not against the responsible utilization of gambling winning into another aspect of business that will sustain the flow of income.

That way you as a successful gambler have been able to build a sustainable career using gambling rewards and not depending on the future winning to sustain those businesses since you are already aware of the risk and unpredictability of gambling.

In many ways the successful person was seems as the gambling addicted person in various countries.Many new gamblers was see the experienced gambler as the gambling addict.But they are not really the addicted person in the gambling,they are just the gambler with huge love towards the gambling.The affection for the gambling was different from the gambling addiction to the gambling.The income was the base of the amount of the dollars was used by the gamblers in the gambling sites.Ind you are the new gambler,you need to learn a lot from the gambling experiences.

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on October 23, 2023, 11:17:30 AM

And yes, there indeed can be some addicted gamblers who are really successful, but the ones I've seen or come in physical contact with did not actually make money from gambling per se, they have built and established businesses that make millions of dollars or whatever currency for them, they just spend their time and money on gambling as a way for them to have fun.
These kinds of people usually do not even know that they are addicted to gambling since they already have more than enough money to gamble for life and never feel the negative impact of losing money in the process.

Do we even have people who take gambling as a means of livelihood because I have heard this statement several time and this have prompted me to think about the thought of his possible that is to take something as risky as gambling as a mean of income or a career unless you plan to crash along the way, but then also I am not against the responsible utilization of gambling winning into another aspect of business that will sustain the flow of income.

That way you as a successful gambler have been able to build a sustainable career using gambling rewards and not depending on the future winning to sustain those businesses since you are already aware of the risk and unpredictability of gambling.

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Quote from: moneystery on October 23, 2023, 11:00:57 AM

Quote from: nullama on October 16, 2023, 11:11:19 PM

...

I think the term would be correct.

In a similar way, we have the term "high-functioning alcoholic", which basically states the fact that even though the person can be seen as "successful", they also have an addiction.

The same can apply to gambling. But I reckon there are very few, if any, addicted successful gamblers.

it's quite rare to see an addicted gambler who is successful from his gambling, most of the people who are addicted to gambling that i see have a mediocre life, not very rich, like my neighbor, a gambling addict ends up living in poverty.

but that doesn't rule out the possibility that there are also gamblers who are successful through their games such as professional poker or sportsbooks or from referral links and promotions on their channels. i think they can be said to be successful gamblers because they earn money from gambling and they are not considered addicted because they already consider gambling to be their job.

First is, it is not even right at all to take or consider gambling as a job, so, to this is say that whoever is addicted to gambling is addicted to gambling, it doesn't matter if the person takes gambling as a job or not, gambling is not even a profession, why should someone in all the professions all over the world choose to gamble as a profession? this is absolutely not right if I'm asked.

And yes, there indeed can be someone addicted gamblers who are really successful, but the ones I've seen or come in physical contact with did not actually make the money from gambling per say, they have built and established businesses that make millions of dollars or whatever currency for them, they just spend their time and money on gambling as a way for them to have fun.
This kind of people usually do not even know that they are addicted to gambling since they already have more than enough money to gamble for life and never feel the negative impact of losing money in the process .

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Quote from: nullama on October 16, 2023, 11:11:19 PM

...

I think the term would be correct.

In a similar way, we have the term "high-functioning alcoholic", which basically states the fact that even though the person can be seen as "successful", they also have an addiction.

The same can apply to gambling. But I reckon there are very few, if any, addicted successful gamblers.

it's quite rare to see an addicted gambler who is successful from his gambling, most of the people who are addicted to gambling that i see have a mediocre life, not very rich, like my neighbor, a gambling addict ends up living in poverty.

but that doesn't rule out the possibility that there are also gamblers who are successful through their games such as professional poker or sportsbooks or from referral links and promotions on their channels. i think they can be said to be successful gamblers because they earn money from gambling and they are not considered addicted because they already consider gambling to be their job.

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Quote from: Blitzboy on October 23, 2023, 05:31:08 AM

Quote from: Natsuu on October 23, 2023, 05:24:36 AM

I would disgaree. I mean I think almost every gambler atleast once in their lives, have been called an addict especially during their starting days where there dedicate time and effort in gambling. But personally, I would rather call a successful gambler a “pro” rather than an addict. For me, a successful gambler, aside from accumulating a lot of winnings from gambling, they are also able to become discipline in their gambling habits. That discipline is what makes them successful in the first place, I believe. On the other hand, addicts would be people who cant control their gambling habits that it cause them problems, right? I may be wrong but that doesnt mean that succesful gamblers are automatically addicts.

I see where you're coming from, but I must insist more strongly on that point. Isnt it interesting how readily society categorizes gamblers as addicts, particularly in the early stages of their entanglement with the game? Your differentiation between a "pro" and a "addict" is crucial. You emphasized discipline, which is a quality of a pro. They thoroughly analyze the rules of the game, plan their moves, and take calculated risks. Its past time we began to see it as a skill set and a well-honed craft.

On the other side, addicts are completely engrossed in the game. The compulsion is what matters, not the plan or the victories. Unfortunately, this urge frequently has disastrous results. What distinguishes one from the other, then? It is a discipline. But the truth is, cultural conceptions are steadfast. Though its a widespread fallacy, calling professionals addicted doesnt make it true. Lets question it, contest it, and contribute a nuanced viewpoint to the discussion.

Although maybe in reality we cannot say that someone who is new to gambling is already addicted, because as said this is the initial stage of involvement in gambling so we cannot fully judge that the person is already addicted. And I would also add because it's very likely that they haven't found some factors or conditions that could make them end up addicted, this is the beginning of their dedication, so it might be too early to say they are addicts. But basically in the eyes of society in general gambling is a very negative activity, people will not know that in gambling there are several levels that must be passed so that they can enter the addiction zone. So maybe one of the reasons why people can finally conclude someone who gambles so quickly is because people don't know and don't understand about gambling itself.

It is very clear, of course the "pro" gamblers and "addicts" are different, as you said, those who are already pro in gambling already understand all the conditions that exist in gambling, they have a lot of considerations before finally placing a bet, in addition to looking from various sides about the risks that can befall them also do it with full calculation, no matter the small win as long as it is consistent. While gambling addicts are those who are always selfish and undisciplined.

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Quote from: Natsuu on October 23, 2023, 05:24:36 AM

Quote from: nullama on October 16, 2023, 11:11:19 PM

Quote from: Obari on July 08, 2023, 03:44:50 PM

~snip~
Now let's be sincere, will you also classify a successful gambler as an addict?

I think the term would be correct.

In a similar way, we have the term "high-functioning alcoholic", which basically states the fact that even though the person can be seen as "successful", they also have an addiction.

The same can apply to gambling. But I reckon there are very few, if any, addicted successful gamblers.

I would disgaree. I mean I think almost every gambler atleast once in their lives, have been called an addict especially during their starting days where there dedicate time and effort in gambling. But personally, I would rather call a successful gambler a “pro” rather than an addict. For me, a successful gambler, aside from accumulating a lot of winnings from gambling, they are also able to become discipline in their gambling habits. That discipline is what makes them successful in the first place, I believe. On the other hand, addicts would be people who cant control their gambling habits that it cause them problems, right? I may be wrong but that doesnt mean that succesful gamblers are automatically addicts.

It's one thing to be a successful gambler but totally a different thing to be an addict. An addicted gambler is someone that's always spending all his time, energy and resources in gambling most times not because of what they stand to win but because they always want to get involved in gambling while a successful gambler might not necessarily be active in gambling but always wins anytime he gambles.

Topic: Are successful gamblers seen as addicts? - page 24. (Read 6644 times)