[ BOXING POLL ADDED ] The Rematch - JOSHUA vs USYK II (updated thread) - page 2.

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Quote from: KTChampions on August 21, 2022, 12:56:35 PM

Quote from: JollyGood on August 21, 2022, 12:48:54 PM

There was no chance that any professional judge carrying out his scoring duties with complete neutrality could ever award the fight to Joshua over Usyk. How did Glenn Feldman conclude Joshua won by 115-113? The other two judges, Viktor Fesechko scored it 116-112 in favour of Usyk while Steve Gray scored it 115-113 also in favour of Usyk.

It is such a shame another controversial scorecard decision marred the event. The article is here: TalkSport

I wonder why he did it? Was hoping that one of the other two judges would award a draw and the result would be a scandalous draw? Complete nonsense. I think it's obvious that in a rematch against the reigning champion, the challenger (who was declassed in the previous fight) has to be significantly stronger to win (or at least get a draw).
I can’t say that it overshadowed the result, but once again it reminded me that boxing has a lot of undercover fights, bias and dirty deeds.

This is one of the worst aspects of boxing, which is why fans love when there is a KO, not only because it is spectacular but because it leaves no room for doubt, the one that is on the floor lost and the one still standing won the match, it is no wonder that as soon as a fight gets to the judges everyone gets nervous as we never know when a robbery can happen, however while it is impossible for anyone with working eyes to have given the fight to Joshua I think there is the possibly this was not about stealing the fight away from Usyk but about the bets, an unanimous decision in favor of Usyk should have been a popular bet, but with this a split decision was the result, forcing a lot of people to lose their bets.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on August 23, 2022, 02:59:24 AM

Quote from: hilariousetc on August 22, 2022, 05:55:57 AM

Quote from: TopTort777 on August 22, 2022, 05:21:46 AM

What is the future of AJ ? Would be funny if promotors organize a third fight, like Fury vs Wilder Cheesy

If AJ was so much pissed due to a loss, I cant imagine what he would do if he looses for the third time. But jokes aside, what AJ is going to do now? If I am not wrong, then he has no belts right now. Should he retire? If he got 65 millions for that fight, that could be more than enough not to work till death.

He has lots of options. Trilogy with Andy Ruiz might be his best bet, but there's still people like Wilder who would be a huge fight for him, but I don't think he beats Deontay so he's probably best ducking that one until he either has to or gets a couple more wins under him. Maybe even a trilogy with Uysk again down the line, especially if Usyk fights and loses the belts to Fury. The Fury fight would always be on the cards as well but can't see that happening without any belts until maybe the end of both their careers, though if AJ gets a couple of wins under his belt he could end up becoming the mandatory at some point. He's just signed a huge deal with Dazn so they're going to want to start seeing some fights from him. Maybe Eddie will just use some of his other Matchroom Heavyweights to make easy fights, but personally I think the Ruiz third would be a good one for him next.

Trilogy with Ruiz, Trilogy with Usyk. I would better watch him fighting someone other. Plenty of good boxer, boxer that should help him to recover his name Cheesy

I think his managers gonna find him someone who he would definitely gonna win, and win by TKO or KO, as I think AJ is not mentally unstable. Like people say "he need to regain faith in himself". Otherwise he would be like Wilder, obsessed with defeat. Wilder could be a a good opponent, that would be fight lots of fans wants to see, but AJ is not ready for Wilder right now imho.

It will be a disaster if he goes with Wilder after this fight, I think the better approach will be to cherry pick an opponent, just to give Joshua some boost of confidence to win and get over the 2 lost from Usyk. For sure he can still chase Wilder down the line, it was one of those fights that we would love to see when they are still undefeated, nevertheless it can still catch a lot of boxing fans to see this two together in the ring although the hype is not going to be the same. Wilder will be fighting Robert Helenius in October if I'm not mistaken so let's see.

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Joshua thought he would win the fight because he had Garcia in his corner but in the end what mattered was that Joshua is not and was not and will never be a technically gifted fighter. He entered the sport very late in life and no matter how much he tries he simply cannot make those adjustments.

He cannot understand how he lost after all he did to train but in the end he did lose and it should have been 3-0 on the scorecard not 2-1.

Quote from: Boristhecat on August 23, 2022, 07:08:11 AM

If AJ did not even understand how he lost, then this speaks more about the skill of Usyk than about the weak ability AJ to analyze. It reminded me of the last Champions League - many said (and some still say) that Real was weaker than all their opponents in the playoffs, but nevertheless Real beat them all.
After the 9th round, it was clear in the eyes of AJ that he thought that he had found the keys to victory and was about to break Usyk and knock him out. He didn’t even think about other scenarios and I’m sure he didn’t think about plan B, so when Usyk just beat him in the 10th and subsequent rounds, AJ looked helpless.

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Quote from: Cryptmuster on August 22, 2022, 02:55:08 AM

And how do you like his words to Usyk after the fight? He said: "You are not strong, how did you defeat me?" After this fight, he had more questions than answers, it's just a situation when a person does not have an understanding of what needs to be done now, or what needs to be done to win. In fact, he just entered the ring and did not show anything new, he clearly lost, and the fact that one of the judges gave him the victory could really seem like a some kind of hope to him.

If AJ did not even understand how he lost, then this speaks more about the skill of Usyk than about the weak ability AJ to analyze. It reminded me of the last Champions League - many said (and some still say) that Real was weaker than all their opponents in the playoffs, but nevertheless Real beat them all.
After the 9th round, it was clear in the eyes of AJ that he thought that he had found the keys to victory and was about to break Usyk and knock him out. He didn’t even think about other scenarios and I’m sure he didn’t think about plan B, so when Usyk just beat him in the 10th and subsequent rounds, AJ looked helpless.

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Quote from: hilariousetc on August 22, 2022, 05:55:57 AM

Quote from: TopTort777 on August 22, 2022, 05:21:46 AM

What is the future of AJ ? Would be funny if promotors organize a third fight, like Fury vs Wilder Cheesy

If AJ was so much pissed due to a loss, I cant imagine what he would do if he looses for the third time. But jokes aside, what AJ is going to do now? If I am not wrong, then he has no belts right now. Should he retire? If he got 65 millions for that fight, that could be more than enough not to work till death.

He has lots of options. Trilogy with Andy Ruiz might be his best bet, but there's still people like Wilder who would be a huge fight for him, but I don't think he beats Deontay so he's probably best ducking that one until he either has to or gets a couple more wins under him. Maybe even a trilogy with Uysk again down the line, especially if Usyk fights and loses the belts to Fury. The Fury fight would always be on the cards as well but can't see that happening without any belts until maybe the end of both their careers, though if AJ gets a couple of wins under his belt he could end up becoming the mandatory at some point. He's just signed a huge deal with Dazn so they're going to want to start seeing some fights from him. Maybe Eddie will just use some of his other Matchroom Heavyweights to make easy fights, but personally I think the Ruiz third would be a good one for him next.

Trilogy with Ruiz, Trilogy with Usyk. I would better watch him fighting someone other. Plenty of good boxer, boxer that should help him to recover his name Cheesy

I think his managers gonna find him someone who he would definitely gonna win, and win by TKO or KO, as I think AJ is not mentally unstable. Like people say "he need to regain faith in himself". Otherwise he would be like Wilder, obsessed with defeat. Wilder could be a a good opponent, that would be fight lots of fans wants to see, but AJ is not ready for Wilder right now imho.

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When all the great boxers ended up getting beaten by their opponents, they did not all take the microphone and behave in the manner that Joshua did. It is simply not appropriate to say his emotions took over because there has to be more to it. Maybe he was concussed otherwise his rant in the ring after his defeat did not make any sense.

Quote from: TravelMug on August 22, 2022, 04:52:06 PM

Just the emotions though, running through his nerves after it was announced that again he lost to Usyk. You can't blame the guy and even at the post fight conference, Eddie Hearn is really a masterclass as far as public speaking goes, and the lauded Joshua for being a fighter and boxing writer even gave him a clap and it was enough for Joshua to break down in tears. And I guess Usyk doesn't mind it, he won the fight, fair and square there is no controversies.

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Quote from: JollyGood on August 22, 2022, 04:08:21 PM

Just by listening to the things he was saying it was clear Joshua should never have been able to get anywhere near the microphone.

His team should have stepped in and taken the microphone from him because it was the moment for Usyk to have the spotlight rightly shining on him because of the way he defended his heavyweight titles.

Quote from: Cryptmuster on August 22, 2022, 02:55:08 AM

And how do you like his words to Usyk after the fight? He said: "You are not strong, how did you defeat me?" After this fight, he had more questions than answers, it's just a situation when a person does not have an understanding of what needs to be done now, or what needs to be done to win. In fact, he just entered the ring and did not show anything new, he clearly lost, and the fact that one of the judges gave him the victory could really seem like a some kind of hope to him.

Just the emotions though, running through his nerves after it was announced that again he lost to Usyk. You can't blame the guy and even at the post fight conference, Eddie Hearn is really a masterclass as far as public speaking goes, and the lauded Joshua for being a fighter and boxing writer even gave him a clap and it was enough for Joshua to break down in tears. And I guess Usyk doesn't mind it, he won the fight, fair and square there is no controversies.

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Just by listening to the things he was saying it was clear Joshua should never have been able to get anywhere near the microphone.

His team should have stepped in and taken the microphone from him because it was the moment for Usyk to have the spotlight rightly shining on him because of the way he defended his heavyweight titles.

Quote from: Cryptmuster on August 22, 2022, 02:55:08 AM

And how do you like his words to Usyk after the fight? He said: "You are not strong, how did you defeat me?" After this fight, he had more questions than answers, it's just a situation when a person does not have an understanding of what needs to be done now, or what needs to be done to win. In fact, he just entered the ring and did not show anything new, he clearly lost, and the fact that one of the judges gave him the victory could really seem like a some kind of hope to him.

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USYK is a very fast and agile boxer for this heavyweight. The fact that he's a reverse guard makes Joshua very uncomfortable, he said it himself in a statement. He said something like reverse guard fighters are bothering me. I think USYK can finish Joshua in rounds 10-11, it will tire him out by then. Joshua has no choice but to hit an accurate explosive punch, but I think he'll get tired after the middle of the match, and muscle mass is sometimes a disadvantage.

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Quote from: inthelongrun on August 22, 2022, 07:13:02 AM

Yes, biased decisions are still a huge black eye to boxing. The superstars are the ones that benefits most, guys like AJ and Canelo. Stats alone may not tell the whole story like the impact and damage of power punches and jabs. So it is still difficult to determine. The amateurs used to determine winners thru a points system which was equivalent to punches landed but they shifted to judges now. But at least they have 5 judges to determine a fight result. I would love to see 5 judges in professional boxing too and all of them should also see the punch stats after each round to help their decisions.

All I heard is that a referee is not allowed when one of the fighters is a countryman although I still saw it happen. Boxing's sanctioning bodies are corrupt especially the WBC and WBA. They can twist their own rules for money purposes. It's still purely business and they're taking 3% or less depending on the total money made by the fighters including their PPV shares.

To exclude compatriots from the panel of judges does not mean to remove corruption from boxing. I read today that this judge can be deprived of his license, and this should be done so that the rest are afraid to repeat such nonsense in the future. When the result is obvious to everyone, and the results on paper do not correspond to this, then this should raise questions about competence.

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Quote from: inthelongrun on August 22, 2022, 07:13:02 AM

Fury-Wilder III happened because Wilder had a rematch clause. Jealous or greedy Wilder was the reason Fury-Joshua got canceled.

And that fight will not happen anymore because we have Usyk who has a better match against Fury.

If that AJ vs Fury did happen, I wouldn't be surprised to see AJ get KO as I believe Wilder was even better than him.

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Quote from: hilariousetc on August 22, 2022, 04:33:53 AM

Quote from: inthelongrun on August 21, 2022, 12:39:05 PM

It's a shame that one judge tried to steal its result. There is no way AJ won 7 rounds. Glen Feldman should be banned from judging again. Here are the actual scorecards in the fight.

Here are the punch stats according to Compubox.

I think they really need to do something about boxing judges because half of the time they seem to be making shit up. Imagine how many boxers lose fights solely because of judges when in reality it should have been the opposite. Personally, I thought there was a couple of other robberies on that card. Richard Rivera was easily the better fighter and I thought Zhang Zhilei probably won as well. They should probably just start using the actual stats to determine the victor rather than the often biased opinion of judges. I also thought it was weird how the judges weren't all from neutral countries and had one from both England and Ukraine. I mean, really? You don't think they could be biased towards their fellow countrymen? In football international matches they always have neutral officials so why not boxing where it would be much easier to influence the outcome of a match when it's pretty much subjective.

Yes, biased decisions are still a huge black eye to boxing. The superstars are the ones that benefits most, guys like AJ and Canelo. Stats alone may not tell the whole story like the impact and damage of power punches and jabs. So it is still difficult to determine. The amateurs used to determine winners thru a points system which was equivalent to punches landed but they shifted to judges now. But at least they have 5 judges to determine a fight result. I would love to see 5 judges in professional boxing too and all of them should also see the punch stats after each round to help their decisions.

All I heard is that a referee is not allowed when one of the fighters is a countryman although I still saw it happen. Boxing's sanctioning bodies are corrupt especially the WBC and WBA. They can twist their own rules for money purposes. It's still purely business and they're taking 3% or less depending on the total money made by the fighters including their PPV shares.

Quote from: TopTort777 on August 22, 2022, 05:21:46 AM

What is the future of AJ ? Would be funny if promotors organize a third fight, like Fury vs Wilder Cheesy

Fury-Wilder III happened because Wilder had a rematch clause. Jealous or greedy Wilder was the reason Fury-Joshua got canceled.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on August 22, 2022, 05:21:46 AM

What is the future of AJ ? Would be funny if promotors organize a third fight, like Fury vs Wilder Cheesy

If AJ was so much pissed due to a loss, I cant imagine what he would do if he looses for the third time. But jokes aside, what AJ is going to do now? If I am not wrong, then he has no belts right now. Should he retire? If he got 65 millions for that fight, that could be more than enough not to work till death.

He has lots of options. Trilogy with Andy Ruiz might be his best bet, but there's still people like Wilder who would be a huge fight for him, but I don't think he beats Deontay so he's probably best ducking that one until he either has to or gets a couple more wins under him. Maybe even a trilogy with Uysk again down the line, especially if Usyk fights and loses the belts to Fury. The Fury fight would always be on the cards as well but can't see that happening without any belts until maybe the end of both their careers, though if AJ gets a couple of wins under his belt he could end up becoming the mandatory at some point. He's just signed a huge deal with Dazn so they're going to want to start seeing some fights from him. Maybe Eddie will just use some of his other Matchroom Heavyweights to make easy fights, but personally I think the Ruiz third would be a good one for him next.

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What is the future of AJ ? Would be funny if promotors organize a third fight, like Fury vs Wilder Cheesy

If AJ was so much pissed due to a loss, I cant imagine what he would do if he looses for the third time. But jokes aside, what AJ is going to do now? If I am not wrong, then he has no belts right now. Should he retire? If he got 65 millions for that fight, that could be more than enough not to work till death.

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Quote from: inthelongrun on August 21, 2022, 12:39:05 PM

It's a shame that one judge tried to steal its result. There is no way AJ won 7 rounds. Glen Feldman should be banned from judging again. Here are the actual scorecards in the fight.

Here are the punch stats according to Compubox.

I think they really need to do something about boxing judges because half of the time they seem to be making shit up. Imagine how many boxers lose fights solely because of judges when in reality it should have been the opposite. Personally, I thought there was a couple of other robberies on that card. Richard Rivera was easily the better fighter and I thought Zhang Zhilei probably won as well. They should probably just start using the actual stats to determine the victor rather than the often biased opinion of judges. I also thought it was weird how the judges weren't all from neutral countries and had one from both England and Ukraine. I mean, really? You don't think they could be biased towards their fellow countrymen? In football international matches they always have neutral officials so why not boxing where it would be much easier to influence the outcome of a match when it's pretty much subjective.

Looks like there's already talks for the Usyk/Fury fight:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/19576401/tyson-fury-comeback-fight-oleksandr-usyk-saudi-arabia-december/

Quote

Talks are ongoing about hosting it on December 17 - the day before the World Cup Final in neighbouring Qatar.

Al Saud said: “We’re interested, that’s all I can say. We are open to that. We’re bidding for a lot of events.

“If it does happen, it will be hosted in Riyadh. But we still haven’t decided on anything.”

Fury already has influential friends and financiers in Saudi Arabia after his WWE wrestling bout here in 2019.

Britain’s Gypsy King, 34, and Usyk, 35, would each net at least £50m.

Saudi's have pockets deep enough to make this happen and looks like they're eager to so hopefully we see this before the end of the year. AJ got 65 million for this fight so I wouldn't be surprised if Fury gets near 100 Mill for this.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on August 21, 2022, 08:22:33 PM

Yes, everything was very strange. After the fight, I reckon before the decision, everyone can see in Joshua's face that he knew that it was a loss for him already. However, after hearing that one of the judges gave the win to him, I speculate this was where his behavior began to change.

He also delivered a speech with a cheer in the ending. This made him appear that he needs to talk to a mental health professional hehehe.

And how do you like his words to Usyk after the fight? He said: "You are not strong, how did you defeat me?" After this fight, he had more questions than answers, it's just a situation when a person does not have an understanding of what needs to be done now, or what needs to be done to win. In fact, he just entered the ring and did not show anything new, he clearly lost, and the fact that one of the judges gave him the victory could really seem like a some kind of hope to him.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on August 21, 2022, 08:22:33 PM

Yes, everything was very strange. After the fight, I reckon before the decision, everyone can see in Joshua's face that he knew that it was a loss for him already. However, after hearing that one of the judges gave the win to him, I speculate this was where his behavior began to change.

He also delivered a speech with a cheer in the ending. This made him appear that he needs to talk to a mental health professional hehehe.

I already thought the same just before they read the score card but the problem is, Joshua made a fuss about it when he heard the scores and thought he might gonna make some changes if he do something crazy in that place. they better not do something like that because this is not the usual place they are fighting and they might not get another chance to fight there when they cannot control their emotions at all.

He is doing the Khabeeb thing after the fight but the problem is he lost and he drags himself to more embarrassment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS3_RZ3sC7Q&ab_channel=SkySportsBoxing

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Quote from: fortunecrypto on August 20, 2022, 08:47:17 PM

Have you all seen Joshua's behavior after the fight he is a very upset man he even throws the two belts the WBA and ring magazine title outside of the ring and even confronted Usyk and tells him how do you beat me, its a big disappointment for those who adorn and look up to him instead of congratulating Usyk he despises him, Usyk for his part is very calm, Usyk deserves the match and Joshua has no right to disrespect Usyk, he should be sanction for his action.

Anthony Joshua confronts Oleksandr Usyk after defeat & throws belts out of the ring

Yes, everything was very strange. After the fight, I reckon before the decision, everyone can see in Joshua's face that he knew that it was a loss for him already. However, after hearing that one of the judges gave the win to him, I speculate this was where his behavior began to change.

He also delivered a speech with a cheer in the ending. This made him appear that he needs to talk to a mental health professional hehehe.

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There was no chance the first Fury vs Wilder fight was a draw and there have been many bad decisions over the years by boxing judges tallying up their scorecards. There was no chance at all that any judge could have awarded the fight to Joshua 115-113 but Glenn Feldman did and that decision was a very bad one.

Quote from: eaLiTy on August 21, 2022, 02:41:01 PM

Regarding one of the judges decision, i am not that surprised because i have seen worst judges scores before in boxing Grin

.

Here is the link to the Fury vs Usyk thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/poll-the-unification-fight-fury-vs-usyk-sponsored-by-utopia-5410668

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on August 20, 2022, 06:42:15 PM

What is happening to AJ? Has he lost his drive, his motivation, his hunger? I mean, because I do not understand what's been going on with this champ. Has he made so much money that his heart in no longer in the sport? Totally appalled and embarrassed with his performance in the ring. The AJ I watched today stands no fighting chance against Fury and Wilder.

It is not that Anthony Joshua has lost his drive or motivation, it is that people needs to start accepting the fact that Oleksandr Usyk is a much better boxer than him. He was facing tomato cans earlier and now when he faced tough competition his aura of invincibility is hammered.

The highlight of the fight is the break down from Anthony Joshua after loosing the fight throwing the belts away which was silly. He needs to start accepting the fact that Oleksandr Usyk is a much better boxer than him Cheesy

.

Regarding one of the judges decision, i am not that surprised because i have seen worst judges scores before in boxing Grin

.

Topic: [ BOXING POLL ADDED ] The Rematch - JOSHUA vs USYK II (updated thread) - page 2. (Read 3520 times)