Topic: [GUIDE] B's A More Ethical & Trustworthy Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide - page 12. (Read 29127 times)

Well after the retards at MinerSource not listening to me and refusing my refund, an unexpected X1 arrived at my doorstep this morning. Opened it up and I am impressed by the quality of the unit as others have stated, it really is nice; but far too little too late. After powering on the unit and setting it up, it's running at 1100MHz and getting around 110-115Gh/s which is about on the money I suppose. Speaking of money, this outdated piece of junk won't even make back what I spent on it. Oh, and for the life of me, I can't get the Android phone LCD to display any stats. Just entering the details in the web browser leaves it there loading with nothing coming up; another let down. An app to display stats would have been apprecated rather than just showing a web page on it's screen.

 

Oh well, this fucking headache for me is over and never again will I spend a cent with BlackArrow or with MinerSource. As for the "compensation" don't worry guys, we'll never see it.

 

And on you poor bastards waiting for the X3's, funny how when the shoe is on the other foot, BA likes to go all legal when someone is "developing a prouct on others money and time" WHAT A JOKE! Maybe Apluspower are replacing Bitmain's PSU's because at least they know they will ship a product in a timely manner

This is crazy.  What sort of company do this to customer?

YOU built machine that is fire hazard.  YOU pay all cost to fix.


How they ask customer to ship to China, the customer pay to ship, then they pay to test and more to replace.  How does this make sense to any person?


Machine is very late, is now useless, no longer make anything, all customers lose money.  BA already break price matching promise, BA already break promise of refunds, BA ship product that is a fire hazard, so people cannot run and now BA ask people to pay MORE money to fix problem made by BA.

I see now that they do not want to pay to fix this problem, they hope people will not send back and try to fix by own way or not fix and run this and maybe burn their house.  BA do not care if people do not have product that even turn on, or if it burns house.

Well, OK. 

I'd like to see them all in jail getting gang raped by a bunch of very large men that were put into jail for having peckers too large to be legal.

The weekly progress update could include a medical rundown of how many stitches it took to get their asses back in working order after shower time and who might have caught some nasty disease this week.



I'd eat that up like a box of Girl Scout cookies.

Steal thousands of coins from customers, then mine thousands more, pretty sweet gig if you want my opinion  They won't even swap my order value to cloud hashing so I can lose a little bit less than all of it.  They don't even return my very polite emails for months now.  Yup, big time fucking scam operation.

Wow they won't even refund a measly ~9 coins but can mine 4k coins a month, with 3 times that yet to deploy~!

Dogie, with respect - I don't want to hear the same thing from you as bitmain have been telling me & everyone else here for nearly 8 weeks. I have been in contact with bitmain over this issue here & via email this entire time, warning them about this exact thing happening, but to no avail.

I know you get paid to provide answers, but please don't just repeat what bitmain keep saying - it's patronizing & annoying.

Also, if you are going to post answers for & on behalf of bitmain, please at least try and make sure that your answers are correct & based on information from bitmain themselves. Some of your comments are quite simply wrong, leading to misinformation & confusion to other less experienced miners.

Peace  

EDIT: Example:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9129424

Dear loyal customers,

Today we have found out that the batch of power supplies shipped out in batch 1 and the first part of batch 2 Antminer S4s contain a critical defect. The customized power supply produced by AplusPower Co. Ltd is suffering from an unacceptably high failure rate and will be replaced with immediate effect.
We take full responsibility for the problems caused and had not anticipated the unique loading conditions of a miner when selecting and testing the suitability of these power supplies. You can read more about the defect in the post below.

We are now taking steps to ensure that customers are impacted as little as possible. The rest of batch 2 S4s will come with the improved power supply as standard.

The following actions are being taken for miners already delivered:

1)  If your PSU has already failed:

•   Submit a RMA request with some pictures and proof [ie with your username in the photo] of your PSU’s failure to [email protected].
•   We will then ship a new PSU out as soon as possible.
•   We will also issue compensation to the value of 10 days of mining profit calculated starting from shipping date

2) If your PSU has not failed and the miner is running normally:

•   We will ship a new PSU to you.
•   Please do not contact support yet, you will receive an email asking to confirm your shipping.
      

---

Analysis of power supply failures within the first batch of Antminer S4s

We are sorry for the inconvenience you may have experienced regarding power supply failures, or even sporadic events of smoke from our first batch of Antminer S4s. We immediately set out to investigate the reports of failed power supplies from customers, and have made immediate changes to improve the quality of future deliveries. What happened with these power supplies is not acceptable.

The power supplies failed by two different mechanisms:

1) Failed TR1 or TR2 MOSFETs on the power factor correction (PFC) circuitry.

After investigations, it was found that the unusual service conditions a miner puts on its power supply was the cause of the failure. The repeated abrupt, dynamic loading generated significant current through the PFC circuits, eventually leading to the failure of the TR1 or TR2 MOSFETs.

The replacement power supplies have significantly upgraded PFC circuits in order to improve performance and prevent a recurrence of the problem.


2) Failed MOSFET on the output Synchronous rectifier circuit

A MOSFET on the output Synchronous rectification circuit was also found to be failing, due to the repeated and sudden load changes during the miners’ operation.

During normal operation, the output MOSFET is expected to carry a current of approximately 30A and operate at a surface temperature of around 80C. The failing MOSFET was found to be heating up significantly further than this, causing the carbonized black PCBs and smoking thermal pad.

It is worth noting that although a failed output MOSFET at high temperatures may result in some smoke from the PCB and thermal pad, it will not start a fire. All internal components of the PSU meet the requirements of the UL94-V0 flame retardancy standard, which certifies that any ignition will self-extinguish within a maximum of 10 seconds.

In response to this problem, the sample filter in the Synchronous rectifier circuits have been altered to erase the excessive current, and so the MOSFET will not fail again. In addition, several high temperature prevention circuits have been added which will better protect the power supply from overloading and excessive temperatures.

Moving forwards

We always perform significant dynamic testing on chosen power supplies, however in this case we failed to recognize the special conditions and specific loading characteristics the miner would place on the power supply. Our testing has been altered to replicate and include these loading characteristics on any power supplies introduced in the future. Once again, we are sorry.

     AntMiner S3+ Batch 11 opens sale now, price has dropped to 0.535btc per unit, coupon is being issued

You think that's bad ? You could be a batch 1 buyer that had 50% of his units unable to perform stably at 218.75mhz.

Have 3 units that can only run stably at 212.5mhz. Plan on getting around to re-pasting them in the near future to see if I can't improve things.

Ask me how annoyed I am. Especially when I emailed Bitmain early on in the S3 process and they assured me they would not be updating the S3's in the future to resolve the performance problems... And lo-and-behold the S3+ arrives a month later.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Bitmain, and more than 50% of my hash power comes from their devices, but the S3 launch did not go as well as the S1 launch, it appears the S4 launch (Don't own one) has been problematic, and given anecdotes I'm reading here, seems the community consensus is confirming my gut-feel: Bitmain is losing it's way

Funny that I'm thinking of circling back to AsicMiner products for my next miner purchase...

The density of miners is becoming more and more important as the rapid growth of the bitcoin hash rate continues. The industry is trending towards industrial level mining, which leaves home miners without much choice for compact and quiet miners.

In response to this problem, Bitmain has developed a solution. The high end PC industry has used water cooling for years, and this expertise has been transferred to mining equipment. Bitmain is proud to announce our first Liquid Cooled Miner – the C1.

The 1st Batch of C1s are priced at 1 BTC per unit (excluding shipping), with dispatch estimated Oct. 25th


Specifications:
* Hash Rate: 1,008 GH/s guaranteed
* Power Efficiency: 0.8 Watt/GH/s at the wall
* Voltage: DC 12V input, 70A recommended, no PSU
* Water cooling block’s interface: G1/4-8 thread screw
* One 14038 Fan working with water cooling block
* Temperature: 38~40 °C at 25 °C ambient temperature
* Noise: 40~45 DB at 25 °C ambient temperature
* Ethernet connection, Stand alone
* Certificate Compliance: FCC/CE


Recommend Accessories:
Note: Bellow recommend parts are not included in C1, but a purchase links recommended on bitmaintech.com.
* Water cooling pump: Flow 450L/H, Head Pressure 3.0m, DC12V/0.5A, G1/4-8 screw threads, 1 unit
* Radiator: Aluminum, 389mm * 128mm * 36mm, G1/4-8 screw threads, 1 unit
* Fan 12025: DC12V/1A, including grills, 3 units
* Transparent tubing (ID/OD): 5/16” / 3/8” (10/8mm), 3 meters
* Coolant: If you choose an aluminum radiator, you can use deionized water with an additive, or specialist coolant. If you buy a copper radiator, you must only use specialist coolant.
* Connectors: G1/4” thread 10/8mm fittings to connect the C1 to the pump and radiator. Either compression fittings or barbs 4 units
* Spring clamps or worm drive fittings if you chose barbs, 6 units

Note:
1)   Power consumption: Quoted figures depend on your PSUs efficiency, the ambient temperature and the accuracy of the power meter.
2)   PSU: You must provide your own ATX PSU. There are 4 PCI-e connectors for +12V DC input and all are required.

Features:

Stone alone: C1 mines are stand alone and do not require a proxy server or external controller. Setup consists of installing the water pump, radiator, filling the coolant, connecting a PSU and an Ethernet cable.

Cool: Skving technology is used to design New-Style water cooling block. This allows for a large heat-transfer area, which keeps the PCBs exceptionally cool. Thermal Images’ comparing liquid cooling and air cooling at 1TH/s hashing power

Quiet: Four hashing PCBs with 16 BM1382 chips per board are mounted to the both sides of two aluminum water cooling blocks, which are 250mm-long, 115mm-high and 13mm-thick. Each water cooling block contains 24 water channels for efficient heat transfer. A quiet fan works in tandem with the water cooling blocks in order to keep other board components on the C1 cool.

Stable and Accurate: Customized and optimized from the design of the S3+, the C1 is designed with the same PCBs and is supported by Serious-Double-Block Liquid Cooling technology. This allows C1s to benefit from the stability and accuracy of S3+ required to run 24 hours a day with minimal downtime.

Exquisite:
Die Casting Forming technology integrates the common heatsink with a water cooling block, compacts two water cooling blocks working in tandem. These technologies are saving space and allow for 1TH/s of power in a case the same as the S3.

C1 Pictures:

---

---

---

---

 Your ToS? Really?

 Wake the hell up. My CC is a real TOS.

 You provide a service, I pay you for it, you fail to deliver, and ship faulty equipment.

 Guess who wins.


Whatever.. here ya go......



I have no problems my friend. Your boards do. I will ship back bad boards as you sent an unacceptable product.
 
I have been more than forgiving to this point. I simply cannot continue on.
 
You company has failed to deliver. I am sorry. You promised a product 12 weeks ago, and even being that late you shipped faulty equipment. That is HORRIBLE!
 
People depend on you and if you could not deliver, you should be straight up and honest. Please refund my money, or I will refute the charge... You will lose. You failed to deliver.
 

    --------- Original Message ---------
    Subject: Re: Re: [TechnoBit] Message from contact form [no_sync]
    From: [email protected]
    Date: 10/7/14 11:57 pm
  
    Hi,
    You have 5 sendings ( boxes) on the way to you since monday.
    What means 5 boards unnaceptable ? Broken not working at all?
    If you have troubles setting them attach them and give me TW access and I'll help
    If there is something broken I'll send you additional ones.
    I did offered you refund before the all the boards were produced.
    Now they are.
    Do have in mind By our ToS assembly service is not refundable.
    Until now I spent for shipping to you more than 700 EUR.
    I understand that our production troubles are our problem and you are furstrated.
    
    Best Martin
    

I am done. Your company has failed.  You have delayed to the point of no return. Therefore, I ask you to simply ask you to refund my initial deposit, and treat me as a chip conversion, otherwise, I will request a full refund. You have as of yet to ship a suitable product. Please refund my initial purchase and feel free to keep 300 USD for shipping the crap you sent. I have 5 boards that are unacceptable. Please ship me the remainder of the boards, and I will gladly ship you the shit back.
 
 Please do not make me refute this charge, as you would clearly lose.
 

    --------- Original Message ---------
    Subject: Re: [TechnoBit] Message from contact form [no_sync]
    From: "TECHNOBIT" <[email protected]>
    Date: 10/1/14 10:56 pm
    To:
    Message from TechnoBit
    Your order was marked as shipped because the shipping started. We will send you all 50 miners.
    
    

Vesi,

Please update me on the shipping date of my item.
I dont know why contacting you is so difficult but I have sent multiple pm's and as you see Above I have requested you check them many times.

I was told that my order was first going to ship out 2 mondays ago, and then I was then updated that It was going to leave last thursday.

I have had no update since and nothing has changed on the technobit order site.

Where is my order? I ordered with batch 2 with technobit in Mid July. Please send me a correct update.

Why does it seem that you can get back to everyone else on this forum immediately but I sent you a pm and a reminder message above on the 11th and then again on the 14th but you seem to be ignoring me? I dont know whats so hard about keeping good business repertoire with clients....

Im starting to ask myself if my order is being "taken seriously" over there or not but it seems like it has been put on hold in favor of other orders placed after.
 If thats not true, please update me!!!

I was in Batch 1 and have not seen any boards as of yet.  How far along are we now?

We are not affiliated with Minersource.net or Miner Hosting LLC.  

They may have used the address at 3700 Quebec St, however, 3700 Quebec st is a shopping/office center.

Every package will be signed and video recorded as they come in by the UPS, and Panera Bread is located within the same shopping center.

http://www.stapletondenver.com/directory?district=30

There are a few other bitcoin related businesses in colorado receive mails at the local UPS Store within the shopping center.

In the near future, Walk-In drop off may be offered at Denver Bitcoin Center, but, that arrangement is not yet active.

This USA address is one of the options.  You can always request RMA/Warranty via PM to Bitmain or [email protected] or [email protected]

Sent you PM, please contact us, so we can resolve your issue.


Please contact 1-844-248-6246 to speak with one of the live tech support guys or send e-mail to [email protected]

What we need:

Your Bitmaintech.com Order Confirmation Page (PDF or printed or copy and paste)
Brief description of what is wrong with the unit.
We need your return shipping address with a phone number and e-mail address.  (If we need to, the best time to call you)

You can return defective unit with the above information printed to:

Bitmain Warranty
3700 Quebec St. #100239
Denver, Colorado 80207
USA

Telephone: +1-844-248-6246

*Please use a service with a tracking #.  A possibility of Local Drop Off in Denver, Colorado area is considered at this time, however, we are not accepting the in-person drop off.  Please ship the package to the above address for now.

*If you have purchased the Antminer Products from else where, such as Ebay, Amazon, or craigslist or some forum, you may still be eligible for the warranty but even you were not eligible for the warranty, we may quote you for the repair parts cost to restore your units. (even back to S1)


Please run self diagnostic before you send the unit back for the warranty, as often time, it turns out to be a mis-configured unit rather than it being defective.  Misconfigured unit will cost you the return shipping fee and flat rate diagnostic fee and return shipping @ $50 per miner. (Return Shipping fee included)

What Is my  status update vesi?

Martin told me last week that shipping was for this past Monday.

What is my update?

Hello, I just reacted through technobit's message system. I'm 2 hex4m boards short, got a 13 and a 10 boards shipment, not 25 total. Fix asap please.

diferent yesterday 6
today 37
Please understand we postpone our own boards until GB boards are ready.
We are loosing money too on this.
Majority  of you paid us in chips .
Again you can always ask for chip delivery and join Bicknelski .
and you will be in your right.
Somebody asked for compensation it'is OK I'll ship you spare chips if you want, because We paid production costs for 1k boards and got paid with fiat/btc for about 80 boards only, So any compensation will be in chips if you pay for the board

Hi,
I'm Vesi from technobit.
Martin is not able to answer you here for some time. So I'll try:
The first pre-production run of about 10 boards will be ready hopefully next week.
We are going to test it for a week or so .
So these will be put in sales next week with shipment date withing 2 weeks.
Right after that there will be first full production batch for sale

This is all the info I have
Best Vesi

What got changed on the boards we are getting and the one user 2good received ?

For one im seeing a lot less capacitors on the board
and im tsting the board now on all diff kind of clock setings and voltage settings.. but im not nearly getting the "Good" efficientcy number as 2good was getting with undervolting!!

Marto did you reduce your BOM to save money with a result a less efficient miner..

the most efficient im getting now is 1,08 W/GH and thats 660mV 400Mhz or
1,13W/GH 760mV 700MHz


that no where near the 0,78 2good was getting !!!

Yeah,  it would be really nice to get an update from technobit.  Where are you guys in batch 1/batch 2 orders?  How is the queue being handled?  I have a partial order shipped,  when can I expect the rest of my order out?

Agreed. Pure PR spin, completely unjustified.

In a nutshell:

• No more pre-orders
• No more lies about performance or delivery dates
• No advertising or selling anything they don't actually have in stock
• Full asset freeze for BFL and Jody, Nasser and Sonny (JNS)
• Repatriation of assets held abroad by BFL and JNS
• Full accounting of all BFL assets and records
• Full authorization to subpoena any person or business entity holding BFL and JNS assets and records
• Full, sworn list of all payments and transfers of funds, assets and property of BFL and JNS
• Complete, sworn statement itemizing all payments, transfers, and assignment of funds over $2,500 made since June 2012 by each of JNS
• Authorization for FTC to obtain credit reports on JNS
• Full preservation of records by BFL and all its officers and agents (no more forum post deletions)
• Authority of temporary receiver to send anyone at BFL home, including, but not limited to JNS
• JNS may work for the receiver if so asked, but will not be paid
• No burn-in testing without approval of the court
• Shipping of completed miners is allowed, if consumers want them instead of a refund
• No refunds unless approved by the court
• No new sales unless approved by the court
• All BFL and JNS bitcoins go to a wallet controlled by the receiver (as noted in a previous post)

There's a whole lot more in there that's unfavorable to BFL, but essentially the receiver temporarily has control over everything, Jody, Nasser and Sonny get nothing and have to provide a full accounting of what they have taken in the past. Everyone has to cooperate fully with the receiver or their ass is grass. The FTC is authorized, and indeed has been granted extended powers, to continue gathering evidence. Further criminal investigations and civil suits against BFL and JNS can continue.

And last but not least, the judge says "this case is mine, bitches".

STIPULATION FOR LIMITED RELIEF FROM THE
ASSET FREEZE AS TO DARLA JO DRAKE

http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.57.0.pdf


STIPULATION FOR LIMITED RELIEF FROM THE
ASSET FREEZE AS TO SONNY VLEISIDES

http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.56.0.pdf

Another BFL PSA:

People should tell their stories asap... to help make certain that BFL is not put back in charge of the company come Monday.

Yes, those are the 4 possible outcomes of the hearing on Monday. I hope everyone who placed an order with BFL - especially those who had a refund denied or delayed more than 45 days at any time during their interactions with BFL - has shared their experiences with the appointed temporary receiver, Mr. Johnson, at [email protected], so the court reaches the appropriate decision. I know I have.

I agree with scrappy here, Batch 1 should of been sent out by now. reading the thread its totally unprofessional sending out small orders first.
i see some people waiting 10 weeks now for there order to be shipped out and nothing. Seems people with large orders are getting shafted.

I think compensation is due MARTO!!!!

People have been patient with you since you had a problem with the boards, but this now seems to be resolved.
So what exactly is going on??

i do not what to take legal action as BFL are facing and now KNC miner, marto.
You really havent provided any updates to people with large orders on the forum at all.

Please provide a clear update on what is going on and when everyone's orders are going to be fulfilled and compensation package.
with have been patient, but you have taken are patience for granted now.

There is seriously something wrong with this thread. Folks Martin has yet to deliver batch one yet we have 3 confirmed cases of him shipping batch 2. He says "small orders" Fuck that shit. Mine may have been large and paid in fiat. I have as of to date received 6 of 50, and Marto has promised 6 shipping dates and only sent once!

 Guys, enough of the bullshit.

 I paid in fiat for a flat conversion, have been lied to about shipping, and seen batch 2 orders go out before mine. Check the thread, I was in page 2 and traded in 2 x3's and paid in fiat. I know I am not alone here as I have spoke to many of you in pm's. Enough with the BS, bring it.

I haven't received a single one of my 88 boards. My chips have been at technobit since July 17th.

 No offense Guyver, but he hasn't even shipped batch one out. Hopefully he will not ship out anymore batch 2 like the mistake made last week. I just got my first partial shipment today 6 of 50. I know its been over a month for you and I hate it, but it has been over 10 weeks for some of us.

...but we keep hearing this same reply over and over from you.  I've heard this same thing at least 6 times now from you.  Can you tell us what is holding up your shipping?  At first it was because of the MCU, then when that was fixed it was because you were testing the completed boards but what is holding you up now??

Edit:  ...And of course, no response from Marto when asked the 'tough' questions...  This is ridiculous.

If so many mcus are defective wouldn't it make sense to have them all removed and swapped for new ones by a machine and leave the testing for a later time? (I don't know if there is a desoldering machine)

Even 37 boards/day is painfully slow with the total number of boards in mind and it must be quite tiring to do it all by hand time and time again.

Unfortunately putting all this in Marto's hands may save 'money' the problem is then can he be trusted to get the units shipped. If you look at his history there are significant issues in the past when he has lied about shipping when he was having production delays in the past or when things became less profitable. Whatever the reasons he has yet to be 100% clear on when a specific customer will get their entire order. If you can set a production number daily then you can estimate within good reason when shipping will occur. He is not doing that. That is why people are rightly pissed. Suggest people remember this the next time they deal with Marto. Better to avoid his company use more reputable and reliable companies. Has anyone independently verified the issues that Marto is having with the boards and production numbers or is everyone just trusting what Marto is saying is actually happening?

*Recently Deleted by MinerSource.

In all fairness TechnoBit doesn't respond to questions from potential customers either.

From the looks of it all the Black Arrow customers who chose the Group Buy are much worse off financially than customers who stayed with BA or MinerSource and their incendiary mail bomb. BA & MSs customers are only losing almost 100% of their money, at least 200% in minted Bitcoins at the exchange rates and nobody has died yet. The GB has put a lot more additional out of pocket funds into this cluster-fuck.

How many of those that chose the GB option also sent BA additional funds for Power Supply Units?

These PSUs were for the promised but yet to be delivered compensation units. BA promised to deliver compensation units after they've completed shipping of all orders.

The PSUs use in BAs miner has caused multiple explosive detonations due to to high voltage leakage from the PSUs. The leakage polarized the high capacity aluminium electrolytic capacitors that were added to unused sections of the Printed Circuit Board. The capacitors were polarized in the wrong direction with voltage that far exceed the capacitors rating. An explosive release of an ionically conductive liquid into the miner occurred resulting in combustion of the energized and populated PCB; open flame and toxic smoke being the final result.

BA, MS and TB customers are all experiencing an unreasonable shipping delay in paid for Minion based SHA-256 hashing hardware.

For those of you who want proof to see how desperate these companies are, they literally pay people to come onto these boards and post spam supporting them.  Here are users I and others have identified as shill posters.  Click on the user profile and look at their post history.  If 1/2 their posts are promoting a company they are paid shills most likely.  When was the last time you went around telling people how awesome liquid plumber cleaned you pipers  

drawer - new user and 3/4th of his posts are about his supported company
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8309461

testerman - posted the same text in 7 different threads promoting PBMining
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8331652

What do you think of SHA hashlets?

http://bitcoinexaminer.org/bitcoin-developer-gavin-andresen-suspects-cloud-mining-operations-ponzi-schemes/


----

Be careful.




Be very careful.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2142429/JP-Morgan-The-592trillion-Ponzi-scheme-time-bomb-ticking-house.html#ixzz3BHQi7RNB
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

What do you think of SHA hashlets?

Forgot about AMT in there, the village idiots version of BFL complete with its own Josh

http://amtminers.wordpress.com/ all the threads opened about them are referenced in the page.  

If you have to pay 25% import tax you are automatically disqualified from mining, sorry I had to break the news to you. And yes many people have free psus/cables but you can always buy cheap server psus for $25/kw.


If you've been following the difficulty you would know that the growth rate is slowing down not increasing and it's less than 15% average. The low btc rate will only add to the slowing.

Even in your unrealistic scenario where difficulty growth stays constant at 15% you can still ROI because the actual price of the 14TH is clearly 15btc not 23btc.

Praising SP-Tech, maybe, but talking rubbish no. Since you refuse to show some examples I am sure that you, as an AM shareholder, have a different way of digesting the reality and the facts when presented to you and that's why you see it as talking rubbish. Until you will present some evidence of talking rubbish your statements are worthless for me.


Then why are you so shy to present yourself as an AM shareholder before giving mining advices? Wouldn't it be fair for everyone to know that you have a biased opinion just like you accuse me of having?

I think your first line is far closer to the truth of any ROI calculations than the link

Nobody knows how long it'll take for these to ROI (if ever) simply because nobody knows what's going to happen to USD/BTC exchange (if calculating ROI by fiat), nor the difficulty (if calculating ROI by either fiat or BTC).

But with the link in place, which is a highly optimistic estimate, there's specifically the issue of the difficulty.  Right now it suggests break even by 2015/06/13.  However, the next difficulty jump is in just 3 days.. (which is probably about as fast as you could get these sent your way if they even shipped right now), so click the 'next estimate' button, re-calculate, and hey presto... no more break even.

Additionally, if you bought $650 worth of Bitcoin right now at ~$400/BTC, you'd get 1.625BTC.  According to the original calculation, it fizzles out after 2015/12/10, having given 2.44433BTC in revenue, or 0.81933BTC profit.  At that time, the exchange is $833/BTC, so fiat profit would be $682.50.  On the other hand, that 1.625BTC would at that time be worth $1,353, giving a $703.60 profit.
( It's actually a bit worse for the harware, as this excludes operating costs. )

So not only does that scenario seem doomed to fail due to the realities of the impending difficulty increase, it's doomed to fail because you'd be better off buying and holding the BTC.

As much fun as these calculators are for giving lower/upper bounds based on some numbers one plugs in, they're still inferior to a proper crystal ball  

( The above is not a commentary on whether or not these will ROI - I'm with jimmothy on that one, get your own crystal ball. )

Neither - he's just handing out a healthy dose of reality; people asking about ROI need to do their own calculations/guesstimates.  His initial statement holds true, regardless... even if it never ROIs, it never ROIs faster than anything else out there due to the favorable price/GHash and W/Ghash.  Or is that slower... hmm.. brainhurt.

While the basic concepts (and some derivatives I didn't touch on in there, like mining vs holding, mining+periodical selloff vs mining+holding, etc.) apply to the big boys as well, I feel it does the current 'discussion' (antminer S4 vs AsicMiner Tube/Prisma vs cloud hashing .. there's probably more) a bit of a disservice by not delving more deeply into the more intricate parts;

For StickMiners, for example, the hashing performance vs price is generally so poor, that the energy efficiency vs hashing performance is a moot issue.  For the big boys, to those who have the physical hosting, energy contracts, etc. in place, it is quickly becoming one of the primary deciding factors, along with things like depreciation, RMA turnaround, etc.  Others would also certainly be more qualified to write an eloquent post on that (although I feel there should already be one out there).  Though if I had to summarize for the general audience, I'd certainly agree that 'home mining' of Bitcoin, for net positive financial ROI, is dead for anybody who doesn't score a free miner and/or doesn't have to pay for power.

Basically same story here.  I ordered in Nov 2013 and have been asking for a refund for several months now.  They have ignored my emails and I have even asked to have my order value switched to cloud hashing but my emails are completely ignored.  Living in North America I feel pretty helpless against this scamming company.  I'm only out $3500 but fuck this bitcoin shit.  I was willing to take a small gamble on mining and understand I would have basically lost that bet even if they delivered within a reasonable time frame but to be outright scammed is disgusting to say the least.

I hope Karma shoves a great big chainsaw up their collective assholes, they truly deserve it.

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM BITMINE, NOTHING BUT A SCAM OPERATION!!!!!

To take a quote from the BA thread.

I am glad I found this post. I might join as well.

They have declined to provide warranty support for my machines, does not perform to spec.

I'm interested in joining this lawsuit as well.

Hello all,

After reading all of the customer's nightmares on the Cointerra forum about the Terraminer IV, we've decided to take action. We've also received sub-par machines and/or non functioning Terraminer IV's from Cointerra along with, it seems, 50%+ of the customers. If you have been a victim in this false advertising, non-responsive customer/technical service etc.. send me a message and we can include you. We'll keep you posted along the way. Our lawyers have been on this since last week. Feel free to message or email me. We'll be gathering everyone's specifics and getting down to business. What they are doing/have done is illegal and they will not be getting away with it.


Thank you,


J.R.M.
C.E.O
LKC Services, Inc.
web: lkcservicesinc.com
web: locksmithkeycodes.com
web: lkcsupplies.com
web: replacemyremote.com
web: etownshop.com
email: jmorrison at locksmithkeycodes dot com

Status Update
=========

Aug 13th, sent email to [email protected] referencing this thread
Aug 13th, sent another email to support, referencing my #####, asking status and refund.
Aug 15th, "[email protected]" replies stating "setbacks in processing"
Aug 18th, "[email protected]" replies "escalated up your email" and "slated to be refunded in the next batch"

Sept 22, sent email to "[email protected]" asking for status and refund.

To date, no refund.