Pages:
Author

Topic: [GUIDE] B's A More Ethical & Trustworthy Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide - page 9. (Read 29164 times)

hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Do you need to file a complaint against Bitmine.ch?

Jail you will go. Let us hope people recoup their investment.

 
My lawyer told me they probably will go to JAIL ^^ because of tax fraud (Steuerhinterziehung)

They earn bitcoins and sell them and don´t pay any taxes. Thats fraud BIG STYLE friends.

So i made a notification to ESTV (swiss tax agency). -> [email protected]

the MORE PEOPLE tell them that Christian Anselmi and Giorgio Massarotto are tax frauders the FASTER THEY DO GUYS, they will check them ^^



Thank you @Alex27!

I filed a complaint at the email address provided.  I HIGHLY encourage everyone on this forum to do the same.  If they have not paid taxes on their earnings in any currency (cash or bitcoin) this is the probably the best way for us to get the government involved with this fraudulent company.  

ESTV (swiss tax agency) -> [email protected]
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
As if there was any more proof needed - as soon as I posted the above message of thanks on SPTechs thread - this happened:

Look at this, as soon as SPTech get a post, dogie splatters the thread with more poop to promote his employers........ Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



Pretty much says it all - what a joke this paid advert "guide" is Roll Eyes

Even Bitmain find it embarrassingly painful:

Hi Pat,

Can't believe he popped out again...

But we have no control over his negative repping people and submitting mod requests.

Tried but unsuccessful for now.  Keep looking into situation.  This will be a long time project.

If it was under Bitmain Account, sure we can delete them but under his personal account, we have no control over. 

It is painful watching.  Trust me

Hopefully it won't be too long term......... Cheesy

How sad.

Obviously Mr Dogie doesn't care about ruining the reputation of Bitmaintech.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Watch out for the "Neg-Rep-Dogie-Police".....
As if there was any more proof needed - as soon as I posted the above message of thanks on SPTechs thread - this happened:

Look at this, as soon as SPTech get a post, dogie splatters the thread with more poop to promote his employers........ Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



Pretty much says it all - what a joke this paid advert "guide" is Roll Eyes

Even Bitmain find it embarrassingly painful:

Hi Pat,

Can't believe he popped out again...

But we have no control over his negative repping people and submitting mod requests.

Tried but unsuccessful for now.  Keep looking into situation.  This will be a long time project.

If it was under Bitmain Account, sure we can delete them but under his personal account, we have no control over. 

It is painful watching.  Trust me

Hopefully it won't be too long term......... Cheesy

How sad.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
SPTech continues to wow customers with superior customer service.

I could have titled this post or "What Dogie won't show you in his ratings about SPTech."

Just thought I'd drop by to congratulate Spondoolies-Tech on their superb customer support & efficient RMA process - truly excellent!

I lost a loop on one of my SP20E's, & after SPTech logged in remotely they quickly decided to RMA it after confirming the fault. I was sent details & info for shipping the unit back & as soon as I had sent them the tracking number they dispatched a replacement which I received yesterday (after a long & still ongoing argument with DHL - see below). Customer service like this is hard to find in the Bitcoin world & is the reason I will be using SPTech for my future mining hardware needs. Again, a big thank you to all SPTech staff - massive kudos  Grin

DHL - different story  Angry

They're still trying to charge me tax & import duty on the replacement unit, despite me sending them all the required documentation to prove that this was a replacement unit, the entire email conversation with SPTech & after SPTech kindly wrote to them to confirm what I had already explained to them on multiple occasions via email & phone conversations. Good luck with that DHL  Roll Eyes

Peace  Smiley

Edit: I don't see the 2.6.9 or 2.6.10 firmware mentioned above on the manual upgrade button - has it been removed?
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Whatever you need if I can offer assistance let me know we all know that only moving to a group or communal cloud for mining makes economic sense. 2000W is not enough power to see savings in a home or SOHO setting.

My view which is obviously shared and espoused on by Guy in his October talk video is that chasing ZERO $$$ electricity per kWh is the way to go. How?

Solar, Wind, Biodigestor gas gensets with mining providing additional heat to help keep digester temps optimal in winter.

Give me that solution and you will get on top of the problem of building only in Iceland for cooling. There is synergy in using farm waste and green energy solutions to make mining payoff more than just a straight up massive chicken farm or data center arrangement. If you are not working out how to get those electrical costs to ZERO you are going to lose in 2017.

Bick it is really hard to make something work.

I have been called a minion of spondoolies-tech for posting the polls.
 I am about the deal for the miners what works best.
 BTW I have told more then one person to use this thread


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lee-group1980-the-sales-of-first-batch-hosted-antminer-s7psu-included-934581  for mining with a host.

I break down that if you have 11 cent or more power the thread above is better then in house mining.

I clearly show that this is better at the moment for a little guy to do over spondoolies-tech cloud mining offering.

So I am picking a China based person using s-5's over SP-techs cloud offerings.

I did this on multiple threads

twice on spondoolies main thread

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10257658
 https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10273274

Guy was good enough to let it stay up on the thread.

right now mining is very hard for people to do.

 I looked at the hardware thread page 1.

 Fact 1)Very Slim pickings for gear choices.
        2) most threads have bitmaintech gear or sp-tech gear.
        3) no mechanism for up to date info on what to buy.

Yeah flaws abound for every builder of gear .
One way to make BTC stick around is to have a good forum not one with chiselers and hustlers.

Getting in the middle of this is not my desire but we need a way to inform people of what is worth while. here are  two flaw per each of the top 3 builders.

1) single biggest flaw for bitmaintech is if you gear is not working it is a real hassle.
2) firmware for bitmaintech is spotty.

1) sp-tech fucked up the summer launch of the sp-30 it was under specced
2) sp-tech was optimistic by saying the sp20 does 1700gh

1)asic miner has been late with the tube  and the prisma
2) a ton of asic miner gear runs hot melt downs popped caps etc.

I do not follow avalon or bit fury so it is not fair to complain about them or list two flaws.

Those 6 flaws I listed are true but I will guarantee you the very fact I put down only flaws will bring anger and denials. yada yada yada.

the 3 above are big sellers and have sold a lot of stuff to us miners.


legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
Bick it is really hard to make something work.

I have been called a minion of spondoolies-tech for posting the polls.
 I am about the deal for the miners what works best.
 BTW I have told more then one person to use this thread


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lee-group1980-the-sales-of-first-batch-hosted-antminer-s7psu-included-934581  for mining with a host.

I break down that if you have 11 cent or more power the thread above is better then in house mining.

I clearly show that this is better at the moment for a little guy to do over spondoolies-tech cloud mining offering.

So I am picking a China based person using s-5's over SP-techs cloud offerings.

I did this on multiple threads

twice on spondoolies main thread

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10257658
 https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10273274

Guy was good enough to let it stay up on the thread.

right now mining is very hard for people to do.

 I looked at the hardware thread page 1.

 Fact 1)Very Slim pickings for gear choices.
        2) most threads have bitmaintech gear or sp-tech gear.
        3) no mechanism for up to date info on what to buy.

Yeah flaws abound for every builder of gear .
One way to make BTC stick around is to have a good forum not one with chiselers and hustlers.

Getting in the middle of this is not my desire but we need a way to inform people of what is worth while. here are  two flaw per each of the top 3 builders.

1) single biggest flaw for bitmaintech is if you gear is not working it is a real hassle.
2) firmware for bitmaintech is spotty.

1) sp-tech fucked up the summer launch of the sp-30 it was under specced
2) sp-tech was optimistic by saying the sp20 does 1700gh

1)asic miner has been late with the tube  and the prisma
2) a ton of asic miner gear runs hot melt downs popped caps etc.

I do not follow avalon or bit fury so it is not fair to complain about them or list two flaws.

Those 6 flaws I listed are true but I will guarantee you the very fact I put down only flaws will bring anger and denials. yada yada yada.

the 3 above are big sellers and have sold a lot of stuff to us miners.

hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
There is seemingly one person in particularly in bitcointalk that likes to hang himself with the rope he gives himself or shoots his own foot off with his own gun... this is certainly a case in point. It was ANYTHING but spam given the lax rules on that and how Dogie posts to bump his paying customers threads.

Nothing gained in deleting these poll posts other than to keep pointing out the inadequacy of the competition at the customer service level. Clearly the polls are embarrassing for most ASIC fabricators.

 Dogie attempts to strangle the voice of the community.

It really should be worrying that Dogie a paid promoter is trying to degrade and stop open debate about the practices of the ASIC manfucturers.

Why should this community be held hostage to one view point on hardware?

Not looking to do this anymore.

 Since this was cancelled to be fair Spondoolies-Tech ask me to do the thread and poll.
...
Confirmed. I also asked Philip to post whatever questions he wants and to freely change our questions if he wants to.
I believe Dogie's thread become irrelevant.
I opened a meta thread to discuss the poll removal by the mods, without any explanation:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mods-killing-an-hardware-manufacturers-poll-938782

Truly sad to see it closed.  I will not post my thoughts, just that I think someone has a lot of pull on what happens. Apparently this poll he did not like.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory

The voice of the community before it was brutally shutdown:

donator
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1051
Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs
 Dogie attempts to strangle the voice of the community.

It really should be worrying that Dogie a paid promoter is trying to degrade and stop open debate about the practices of the ASIC manfucturers.

Why should this community be held hostage to one view point on hardware?

Not looking to do this anymore.

 Since this was cancelled to be fair Spondoolies-Tech ask me to do the thread and poll.
...
Confirmed. I also asked Philip to post whatever questions he wants and to freely change our questions if he wants to.
I believe Dogie's thread become irrelevant.
I opened a meta thread to discuss the poll removal by the mods, without any explanation:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mods-killing-an-hardware-manufacturers-poll-938782

Truly sad to see it closed.  I will not post my thoughts, just that I think someone has a lot of pull on what happens. Apparently this poll he did not like.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory

The voice of the community before it was brutally shutdown:
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
 Dogie attempts to strangle the voice of the community.

It really should be worrying that Dogie a paid promoter is trying to degrade and stop open debate about the practices of the ASIC manfucturers.

Why should this community be held hostage to one view point on hardware?

Not looking to do this anymore.

 Since this was cancelled to be fair Spondoolies-Tech ask me to do the thread and poll.
...
Confirmed. I also asked Philip to post whatever questions he wants and to freely change our questions if he wants to.
I believe Dogie's thread become irrelevant.
I opened a meta thread to discuss the poll removal by the mods, without any explanation:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mods-killing-an-hardware-manufacturers-poll-938782

Truly sad to see it closed.  I will not post my thoughts, just that I think someone has a lot of pull on what happens. Apparently this poll he did not like.

Snapshot of the manufacturers poll Philipma1957 ran before the mods killed it off



I find the mods action unbelievable.

Guy

Edit:
I opened a meta thread to discuss the poll removal by the mods, without any explanation:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mods-killing-an-hardware-manufacturers-poll-938782
sr. member
Activity: 379
Merit: 250
Welcome to dogietalk.bs
 Black Arrow vs. Minersource... UGLY!

Trust neither that is the only sensible advice moving forward given all the posted information from customers of BOTH entities.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Black-Arrow/477655819009178?fref=nf

Quote
In attention to all Minersource customers:

Matt Carson from Minersource has managed to convince our customer support department that we owe them 250 X3 miners. Our customer support did not check if they are paid and partially shipped this order (137 miners were dispatched). These miners were NOT paid and upon confrontation with Matt Carson all communication went blank.

It has been 2 months since the event and we now assume that Minersource has no intention of paying the X3 miners that we have delivered. As it stands at the moment we are beginning legal procedures against Minersource in USA.

All customers who have ordered from Minersource and had not yet received their order should begin legal procedures against them as they will not receive anything else from Minersource.

Ouch! And it's only going to get uglier.......
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
 Black Arrow vs. Minersource... UGLY!

Trust neither that is the only sensible advice moving forward given all the posted information from customers of BOTH entities.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Black-Arrow/477655819009178?fref=nf

Quote
In attention to all Minersource customers:

Matt Carson from Minersource has managed to convince our customer support department that we owe them 250 X3 miners. Our customer support did not check if they are paid and partially shipped this order (137 miners were dispatched). These miners were NOT paid and upon confrontation with Matt Carson all communication went blank.

It has been 2 months since the event and we now assume that Minersource has no intention of paying the X3 miners that we have delivered. As it stands at the moment we are beginning legal procedures against Minersource in USA.

All customers who have ordered from Minersource and had not yet received their order should begin legal procedures against them as they will not receive anything else from Minersource.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
WARNING! Do not buy from Technobit.eu.

And still no love from Technobit.eu. I really must admit I didn't think it was possible for Technobit.eu to sink any lower.

The new year is upon us and i'm still waiting on 51 hex4m boards...
Have you tried asking in the other threads where your boards are?

I've asked directly through their support many many times. I've gotten told once they were on their way, but nothing ever showed up.  The answer I keep getting is they'll get back to me.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Moderators need to moderate rathering than let the hardware thread become a personal playground for specific fabricators.

This is relevant in my thread as it is becoming increasingly difficult for the community to effectively find information as the hardware forum is not well organized into the categories for consumers.

Suggest they have strict rules on Miner support vs Miner sales / specification threads.
Suggest they move guides and product reviews to a new section.
Suggest they enforce the spam rules particularly for those promoting their own threads and interests.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Paid Spokesman and spam on Hardware threads hurts Bitmain

As stated in this thread it seems yet again Dogie has gone out of his way to stir trouble and bring negative comments down on Bitmain. Although it is clear Bitmain is working very hard to rectify problems.

No I mean Pat, or workinginconcertwithPat. This entire string is off topic though so please take it elsewhere.

That’s what I thought.

Seeing as you felt it appropriate & not off topic enough in the first place to try & demean my reputation by dragging my name into one of your arguments with another forum member again, on this very thread, I believe it is wholly appropriate to reply to your accusations on this thread.

I was recently contacted by both BitmainWarranty & Yoshi regarding your insulting & accusatory behaviour towards me & other forum members on this & other forum threads, both of whom have apologised on your behalf, not just for the negative & conspiracy based feedback you decided to leave on my trust rating - but also for your attitude in general. Both BitmainWarranty & Yoshi have been kind, helpful & understanding towards me throughout our various communications ever since I first became a customer of theirs - as one would expect from a Company of Bitmains stature. They also assured me that they would investigate your remarks & try to rectify the situation - it seems however that this has not yet happened, as you continue publicly to slur me & others at any & every opportunity you get.

I neither require, need or want any alias/shill/troll accounts as you so eloquently accuse me of having. Many manufacturers & forum members alike have all my personal details due to transactions done either directly with them or via my sales thread or my Amazon BTC service thread. Every transaction I have ever done on this forum has been without escrow - I deal entirely on trust, I also have a 100% trust rating on ebay. All these details are open & transparent for everyone to see on my threads - I have absolutely nothing to hide & have no wish to do so. Do you seriously think I would indulge in the activities you accuse me of & risk my reputation here?

Now, with regards to your latest insult:

The problem here is Dogie claims to remain indifferent in how it claims to rate each company. No individual can remain completely unbiased when you are employed by one of them. If you go through many of his posts in other forums, they are usually one liners auto scripted, at times taken out of context. In bitmain forums, he rarely helps anyone to completion. Rather he hands off the problem to bitmain directly, wasting everyone's time.

The final straw, he has insulted way too many people here. No company with any logic would hire him with his lack of community.

Pat, we all know what you're doing - you need to make some more accounts if you want to keep flaming from secret.

Dogie, please confirm that the highlighted text is a typo, that you actually meant pak as in pak13 the author of the text, and that you were in no way referring to me. Again.

Just to be ensure there is no confusion.

No I mean Pat, or workinginconcertwithPat. This entire string is off topic though so please take it elsewhere.

I have never had any contact with forum member pak13, but I will PM him/her a copy of this post & request that he/she makes it clear to you that there is no collusion/connection whatsoever between us & never has been - however they choose to do that it up to them, & weather you choose to believe it is up to you.
I will also send a copy of this post to BitmainWarranty & Yoshi, for the record, and formally demand that you not only make a public apology for your public outbursts against me & others on this & other threads, but also that you remove the negative & derogatory comments you have made on both this forum as well as my & others trust rating.

You seem to have convinced yourself that anyone who complains/disagrees/corrects or comments about you anywhere is actually me in disguise, which is deluded & worrying. The simple truth is dogie, is that I am not the only person on this forum who happens to have a similar point of view about you, and that number seems to be growing every day judging by the amount of feedback there is about you lately. You need to learn to accept the fact that when you are wrong or make stupid/derogatory/insulting comments against either Bitmain customers or people in general, they will reply to those remarks - and it is not because they are all me or because the world is colluding against you - it is because they have every right to do so.

I will not enter into any private PM conversation with you, so don’t bother. I want this to be open & transparent so that everyone can see what a complete idiot you have been, and continue to be. The sooner Bitmain do something about your disgusting & unsociable behaviour towards their customers, the sooner Bitmain can restore customers faith in their Support group. I can see they are trying to improve it already - but you seem intent on working against both them & their customer base, for whatever reason.

I'm not sure why Bitmain allow you to publicly insult their customers this way, but it really is time that they put a stop to it.

Others pile on Dogie.

OK, in the interest of keeping this civil, and because I too have had the pleasure of dogies confused accusations (see my banner) - I feel I should chip in with my 2 cents....mainly because I believe dogie has just gone too far this time. Read on.......

I was also contacted by both BitmainWarranty & Yoshi, prior I believe, to them contacting PatMan for the same reason - firmware issues & dogies attitude, which I discussed with them both. As PatMan has stated, both BitmainWarranty & Yoshi were very understanding, and yes, they both apologized to me also for dogies comments. I don't want to go into detail about what was agreed, I will leave that up to BitmainWarranty & Yoshi to do so if they feel obliged to. I also contacted PatMan after my discussion with them, urging him to divulge his grievances, which I understand he did & was happy with the outcome - as was I. Everything I said above can be confirmed by both BitmainWarranty & Yoshi if there are any doubters out there.

So now I log on & what do I see? Yet another baseless insult from dogie on the Bitmain thread. I feel that everything we discussed has just been abandoned, how can this possibly be of any help to Bitmain? What possible good can become of it? I actually feel sorry for Bitmain right now, they are trying their hardest to to restore customers faith - while dogie continues hurling insults & accusations on their very own thread(s).

If dogie thinks it's OK & "on topic" to insult people on Bitmain threads, but considers it "off topic" for his accused to counter his remarks & ask for an apology - then there is something definitely wrong here. Don't you think?

Thank you.

Bitmain responds:

Some demo units are underway, waiting on the tracking numbers to make sure it is on their way!

Thank you guys for the inputs...  May be I should start Bitmain Thread Security Force only if I had Mod Power   Grin Grin Grin  

We love building the Ant Castle with lots of Ants in them but we never built the Ant Jail... Wander what it would look like  Grin

(Sorry not so being politically correct here, but we are working hardest to improve our customer service, technical support and after-sales services such as RMA)

Can Anyone Make an TEXT ART with Antminer Logo?  0.1 BTC Reward (for the accepted arts)

Happy Holidays & May 2015 bring you lots of lots of Bitcoin and value goes UP to the Moon!


===================
Denver Based Support Team
James, Billy, Z, Alex, Fati


Problems with Antminer Products, please contact +1-844-248-6246 or PM this username.  Bitmaintech Original Order Confirmation Page showing the full payment is Required.  If you have purchased Antminer Products else where, please include the original purchase information with the request.


And more complaints re: dogie.

A little addition for you B:

I'm not going to discuss this any longer....

A discussion was not requested - an apology was.

....in this thread as its off topic.

What, so it's on topic when you post your accusation on this thread, but off topic for me to challenge you about it?:

Pat, we all know what you're doing - you need to make some more accounts if you want to keep flaming from secret.

If BitmainWarranty & Yoshi are decent enough to apologise for your behaviour on your behalf - the very least you can do is apologise for your own baseless accusations & insulting comments. Publicly. Then remove your offending feedback & derogatory posts about me & every other Bitmain customer/forum member you have insulted.

Then, maybe everyone will allow you to "let me please" - whatever the hell that means.  Roll Eyes

I have also posted the entire conversation here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--905210

Is there a distributor here in the states?  While the price with coupons is decent, the shipping makes it a no sale. YMMV, but the shipping doesn't work for me on the S3+, C1 or the S4. 

If Tech support is needed (not likely) they will actually help you...try getting support from bitmain -- they make it such a pain that you want to give up.

You mean like the 100s of Bitmain customers who get help every day? Ps, why was there so many blank lines after the end of your post?

They do both extremes.  I've had an S4 unit where one chip doesn't even show up.  After numerous emails, Yoshi went silent.  On the other hand, I've had bad S-1 controller that was bad and Bitmain shipped a replacement from CO as soon as I supplied a tracking number for the one I was sending back.

Dogie, your help has been less than stellar since taking on the job as mouthpiece for BM.  Some of your comments and suggestions have been out in left field.  I've enjoyed your guides and found them helpful. But I haven't found your BM job nearly as relevant.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Edit:
If you have (a lot...) of free time, you'll enjoy the following thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9890185

I just couldn't resist posting in it....... Cheesy Cheesy

Yes that is the right spot to complain about Dogie's spam. It seems now he is replying to every Bitmain thread now with one liners.

Amazing bumpage.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Thank you for pointing out these.  We are working on getting things better  Wink

If there was any issues with Antminer Products, please contact +1-844-248-6246 Option 2.  

If the line is busy, or no answer, please leave a message and one of the techs will reach out to you.

If you spotted someone (newbies) who can't reach us for whatever the reasons, if you could refer them to BitmainWarranty, via PM or whatever the method it is, we will pick up from there!

Will do Bitmain... as I have for Spondoolies before I do enjoy getting both your customers help if in distress.
sr. member
Activity: 379
Merit: 250
Welcome to dogietalk.bs
Edit:
If you have (a lot...) of free time, you'll enjoy the following thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9890185

I just couldn't resist posting in it....... Cheesy Cheesy
donator
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1051
Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs
That way he can click the moderator button and cull that thread instead of this one.

Wait, dogie has moderator powers? Am I understanding this right?

So, he's deleting posts he doesn't like then leaving negative feedback on whoever he likes for posting?

He's neg-rep'd me already for pointing out his errors, it better not be him who's deleting my posts as well........ Angry
No, he is just excessively (and obsessively) using "Report to Moderator".
Three of my posts were deleted recently, I believe all of them were reported by him. All of them innocent.

Edit:
If you have (a lot...) of free time, you'll enjoy the following thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9890185
sr. member
Activity: 379
Merit: 250
Welcome to dogietalk.bs
That way he can click the moderator button and cull that thread instead of this one.

Wait, dogie has moderator powers? Am I understanding this right?

So, he's deleting posts he doesn't like then leaving negative feedback on whoever he likes for posting?

He's neg-rep'd me already for pointing out his errors, it better not be him who's deleting my posts as well........ Angry
donator
Activity: 792
Merit: 510
Thank you for pointing out these.  We are working on getting things better  Wink

If there was any issues with Antminer Products, please contact +1-844-248-6246 Option 2. 

If the line is busy, or no answer, please leave a message and one of the techs will reach out to you.

If you spotted someone (newbies) who can't reach us for whatever the reasons, if you could refer them to BitmainWarranty, via PM or whatever the method it is, we will pick up from there!




Pages:
Jump to: