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Topic: [GUIDE] B's A More Ethical & Trustworthy Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide - page 13. (Read 29174 times)

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Asicminer Prisma Brief - A New AM Miner for October  

ASICMiner Prisma is based on a proprietary X48 design for BE200. Greatly reduces power consumption of the device per GH/s compared to the X24 design.

Brief
ASICMiner Prisma is based on a proprietary X48 design for BE200. It greatly reduces power
consumption of the device per GH/s compared to the X24 design.

It takes the same cooling structure and similar form factor as the ASICMiner Tube,
while being even more efficient and compact. Also, we added cgminer support on Raspberry PI.

Spec
Hashrate: 350-370GH/s per hashing unit in normal mode, 1400-1480GH/s per full device.

Power consumption: ~0.67 W/G board-wise. On-wall power consumption relies on PSU
efficiency. (typically 1050-1100 W per full device, 0.75-0.78 W/G)

Size: 35cmx12cmx12cm per full device.

Weight: 7.5kg per full device.

Powering: One 6pin PCI-E plugs per hashing unit.

The hashing units are driven by ethernet controllers. It can also be driven by cgminer on Raspberry PI.
Each ethernet controller or Raspberry PI can run up to 32 units.

Consumer Comments:

These look cool and all, and the Prisma seem to be a more efficient miner than the original Tubes.

All that said, I'm with the others on this one, doesn't seem to be any ROI in sight unless these somehow ship this week, not in October.

Either way, well done FC/AM for continuing to tweak and pump out these new designs at decent rates.  The 14 BTC for the 14 TH/s will never return that amount back(difficulty, PSU costs, import tax costs, shipping costs, cabling costs, cooling/electrical costs etc), but at least they're giving miners a good buying option compared to BFL, KNC, BA, AMT, Cointerra etc.

Great to see FC still pumping out new devices.

In the end you are really betting against difficulty. With the tubes it was a ~7% diff rise for ROI. I haven't calculated it with the prisma, but again it'll be around that level.

With btc not rising/declining recently, I think we may see a much slower rate of rise (even look over the past few months).

I may bite depending on final price.
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Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Spondoolies Tech customers see the effort being made.

Clearly the CEO and Tech Support are on the forums. They are responding to questions and giving answers without trying to hide from their obligations.

Personally, I like your direct no-nonsense approach.

The main thing is that the CEO is active right here on the forum... so communication is happening, questions are answered, responses are being made. We've got great tech support right here too.

It's like night and day compared to many other manufacturers.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Minersource FTC complaints being filed

Minersource has been slow to refund and provide adequate answers to questions by consumers for several months now and it is continuing.



You can file a Small Claims Court online against MinerSource. If you have a single X1, then it's probably not worth it. But a larger order would be.


This is my last option.  I just filed my complaint case with the FTC and already have the BBB under review.  I will look into small claims unless we have some collective legal action being undertaken thus far by any others.  I will definitely join if we have any such claim in the works.

Minersource fails to refund then force shipment on this customer.

Well I believe they are banking on the fact that people's orders are small enough that it won't be worth their time suing. Please contact me if you're considering the option of suing Minersource, thank you.

I just received in the mail the Prospero X-1 that I requested a refund on several times over the last several months. It showed up and I said to myself, "Son of a bitch, it's here. I may as well cut my loses and use it." So I took it inside and plugged it in. After plugging it in and setting it to the right pool/worker I noticed it was running very hot. I examined the outside of the box and noticed that the fan was not spinning. I figured, maybe it was being obstructed by something, so I disconnected it and used a paper clip to manually give the fan a little push. It spun around fine, so I figured it must be a fluke and that I should try it again. So I plugged it back in and was immediately greeted by a loud pop and a shower of sparks. I'm repackaging the device now and taking it back to UPS to refuse delivery and have it shipped back to minersource. You now owe me a full refund plus the cost of shipping it back to you. Just be thankful I'm not trying to sue you for personal endangerment.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Black Arrow Refunds / Miners had been promised, neither delivered to customer satisfaction

Black Arrow still failing to refund people.

Legal action is definitely possible.
 
This article has some interesting info on suing a Chinese Company from the U.S.- http://www.chinalawb...ted_states.html
 
According to a business lawyer friend of mine, the FTC can request that a Chinese company's funds be frozen while litigation takes place. He also said that U.S. companies and consumers sue Chinese companies often, and that they have decent success.
 
I personally haven't considered it yet, but if someone is willing to organize a class action suit, I'm sure plenty of people would be willing to join.
 
I wish BA understood that all they need to do is tell everyone what is going on, and agree to a good compensation plan. I'm positive this would make many customers happy and willing to wait a bit longer. ( The compensation would need to be at least 3x at minimum, but they have the equipment.)
 
If they don't act soon I'm sure we'll see legal action begin. I just hope BA isn't waiting for that to happen before they start delivering.
 
Just my 2 pennies.
If they were going to boost compensation, they would have done so long ago. It's just a stall tactic to keep people placated.

The minion products are a total loss at this point. All customers have been screwed. It's time for BA to own up to that fact.

I believe that we have already informed our customers of this: We are currently waiting for CE to check the X3. Until completed, no shipment can be made.

We would like to ask forum users to stop flooding the thread with obscene messages.

Thank you for your patience.


Provide refunds to those who have requested them and the obscene messages will surely cease. Until then, you will continue to reap what you have sown.

When will this be completed?  When will my orders be sent?  It's been almost a year now. How did you expect this to have come together in February?  Are we getting some 14nm chips in these for compensation?
The 14nm chips are merely a figment of someone's imagination at this point.

Yes, define obscene.  This is not porn channel.  

Black Arrow should refund, as people say.  Refunds have been promised, not delivered.  Take people's money for this and not return as promised is obscene.

I think BA's SOP is to ignore all refund requests .. at least it feels that way, I requested my refund at the beginning of July and never heard anything.  In fact, they deleted my first two refund request tickets on their support site!  The third one is still there but it has been unanswered.

Really wish I had put my BTC behind KNC the second time through, they never let me down on my first miners.
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Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
  KnC woefully is still not compensating customers

KnC customers continue complaints about 0 compensation. Miner troubles with the Titan.

Titanic needs watercooling for proper operation.



i still didnt get my titan WTF!

Don't worry, you aren't alone. I'd be surprised if those incompetent fucks at KNC have sent 20 out so far.

bitmain antminer S4 will be shipped since Sept 29. 2TH, 0.69 J/GH, $1450 USD.

https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140916100720380cS1tRWd00684

And KnC still owes me a bonus miner worth $5995 (or $1000?)...

You didn't hear?  Those bonus miners were just a joke.  They are never coming.  You can just forget about receiving that.  It's just like how "Plan B, Hash While you Wait" disappeared.  KnC is going to argue the contract was for 1 Neptune and they are not obligated to give the 'bonus' they once contemplated.

Class action against kncminer.com

Have you ordered a KnCMiner Titan or Neptune?
Are you fed up with them and are interested in legal action and possibly a class action?

I'm trying to judge whether a class action suit would be a possible. Can you please state what you had ordered and why you would sue them?

Do you know a good lawyer or are a resident in Sweden? It would be helpful to have a contact there.

For example, I ordered a KnCMiner Titan. I am a consumer and would like to get a refund, because their products are unsafe (fire hazard, no CE marking), they have made false representations (Q2/Q3 delivery, 800Watt), and because they act in direct conflict with their customers (Batch 1 vs Batch 2).

My other thread collects information on replies from authorities and lawyers. Please contribute if you can!
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
BTCGarden Looks to new Prototype

BTCGarden is working on a new prototype. Customers happy and waiting to see the product.

Thank you all for your supports.
BTCGarden is working on prototype of new model for the time being. Hope we could bring you the new model soon.

Consumers respond

Thank you all for your supports.
BTCGarden is working on prototype of new model for the time being. Hope we could bring you the new model soon.

One of antminer alternative solution we are waiting for

Thank you all for your supports.
BTCGarden is working on prototype of new model for the time being. Hope we could bring you the new model soon.

whis what im waiting ... hope very soon , bcoz prisma is out!!
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
BitmainTech continues to keep most of their consumers happy

Minor things like this often happen. BitmainTech usually ups their game and makes sure shipping issues like this get rectified.

Bitmain, I received my two S1 upgrade kits today. Awesome job on the quick shipping and being very well packed. The only issue I have is that I didn't receive thermal paste. I'm going to try to find some around town in the morning, but off hand I don't know of any place. Could you send me some? It sucks I won't have them up and running tonight.
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Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
BFL closed by FTC.

#ASKFTC on the 24th of September was quite good and helped consumers learn more about the current receivership that BFL is under.

Here is a compiled list Here is the full #AskFTC Q&A session regarding Butterfly Labs @ButtCoin https://storify.com/fermunation/askftc

BFL Signature Campaign  

If you want to help the FTC gather more data on BFL and make the court order receiver a permanent fixture at BFL then spread the word in your sig.

Latest update on the BFL homepage:

"BF Labs, Inc. has been placed in a temporary receivership pursuant to court order, Case No. 4:14-cv-00815-BCW. There will be a hearing on September 29, 2014 at 9:00 a.m. at the Charles Evans Whittaker Courthouse in Kansas City, Missouri. At the hearing, the court will consider this matter. Questions may be directed to the temporary receiver at: [email protected] or 816-292-8316."

Please people, this aint over "till the fat lady sings"; contact the receiver and explain your position in this!

(My story is something like: ordered in jan. expected delivery in march/april, due to BFL's non-delivery I missed this much BTC income by the time BFL refunded me [after another 45 day wait] in august and I finally could divert that investment to another producer [Antminer] who did deliver in two weeks, in the mean time BFL banned me permanently off the forum so I could not communicate properly with either them or other customers.)


More... DON'T FORGET TO #ASKFTC about the BFL debacle.

in the mean time BFL banned me permanently off the forum so I could not communicate properly with either them or other customers.)

You mixed it up a bit, you could not communicate properly with either them or other customers. If you don't understand that, after about 6 of your posts removed where you just advertised Antminers in The Monarch Update thread, that you should stop doing so, and just keep on doing it, well....
Sorry SLok, but you are the one who's got it mixed up; advertising is something you do for a bounty (either getting paid or get goods or whatever...). I simply expressed my good experience as a customer with Bitmaintech and the performance of the Antminer S1 (first) and S3 (later) while my other funds were tied up for almost 8 months at BFL (and got banned permanently after simply answering another customers direct question as to where he could find those Antminers).

Now I do understand that for someone who's involved with BFL it's hard to imagine customers actually being so satisfied that they express their gratitude by simply praising that company for no obvious reason. But sorry: that's not advertising, that's recommending. Don't worry, if you still don't get it just mail your questions to: [email protected] or call 816-292-8316 and #ASKFTC

The shut down of BFL is reaching pretty much every major media venue now... On Forbes.

Meanwhile, according to FTC attorney Helen Wong, the company’s owners were using company credit cards for personal shopping outings at Nordstroms and Bed, Bath & Beyond; to get massages; go to saunas; and to buy guns. That last one could only be a business expense if the owners were preparing for customers descending on them with pitchforks.

They should have been called Bitfarce machines. Over 20,000 customers ordered them but none had received them over a year later, according to the FTC complaint. In November 2013, Butterfly Labs claimed all the Bitforce machines had shipped but “consumers continued to file complaints about not receiving their prepaid BitForce mining machine,” says the FTC.
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Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
[UPDATE of Consumer Comments in the Fabricator Threads]

|||| 22.FEB.2015 ||||

Please review latest updates to the new categories. We hope this clarifies some of the issues as companies move toward a B2B model and away from CONSUMER production.

New Categories are implemented.

Thumbs Up Consumer
Those companies that sell both to businesses and consumers and have good standing in the community.

Thumbs Up B2B
Those companies that only sell both to other businesses and NOT to consumers and have good standing in the community.

Thumbs Up Retired/Defunct/Closed/Bankrupt
Those companies that sold both to businesses and consumers and had a good standing in the community before ending their project or development of miners.

------------------------------------

Thumbs Down Consumer
Those companies that sell both to businesses and consumers and have terrible standing in the community.

Thumbs Down B2B
Those companies that only sell both to other businesses and NOT to consumers and have terrible standing in the community.

Thumbs Down Retired/Defunct/Closed/Bankrupt
Those companies that sold both to businesses and consumers and had terrible standing in the community before ending their project or development of miners.

 TECHNOBIT Screen Capture of Support Thread  22 FEB 2015



Quote
2015-02-21 11:35:56    Preparation in progress

but no tracking number and when I asked him 6 times ...
Tomorrow when not tracking number so no blah blah but I will ask money back



I agree with you 1000%.
If I do not have tracking id tomorrow, then they have squandered their last chance.
If you want it, then I write here or in the other thread about how what my lawyer said.
It 's enough energy once when one bears the cost.
When I think of it, we do it better then via PM.

Fair enough.
Again thank you all for the patience and understanding.
We are packing @ the moment .
Just a note : DPD representative here Speedy is accepting sendings in saturday until 14:00
Yes, you said the same 10 days back, you would ship my 8 repaired boards "tomorrow", and still nothing shipped. And that's 5 weeks after you receiving them and saying you would ship them back "in a few days". Empty words, as always.

|||| 14.FEB.2015 ||||

Updated OP with new information.

Rockminer is no more. Likely merged or absorbed with AMiner. This seems to be official as their website is now down.


|||| 11.FEB.2015 ||||

This thread is certified Dogie POOP free!



|||| 04.OCT.2014 ||||


[Thumbs Up]



  Spondoolies Releases Hi Res Pictures of the SP20:

As the market becomes increasingly harder for manufacturers to find those willing to buy SPTech keeps the pressure on with the SP20.


 Bitmain makes official announcement that they are not affiliated with Minersource.net or Miner Hosting LLC.

As concerns grow over Minersource.net and Miner Hosting LLC Bitamain is clear to distance themselves with this group. I suspect there is more to this but it is a good sign for customers that Bitmain is trying not to be involved with known problem companies like this.



[Thumbs Down]

 Technobit continue production of new miners yet is failing to deliver on past orders.

Even though Technobit claimed to halt all other work in lieu of getting the group buy minion boards out they have continued to produce new boards. Customers are still not getting shipments or incomplete shipments.


BFL gets pulled deeper into the bowels of FTC control.

http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.54.0.pdf

A Summary of the Document by ElGrandeJefe



|||| 27.SEP.2014 ||||  


[Thumbs Up]
 

Asicminer Prisma Brief

ASICMiner Prisma is based on a proprietary X48 design for BE200. Greatly reduces power consumption of the device per GH/s compared to the X24 design.


Spondoolies Tech customers see the effort being made.

Clearly the CEO and Tech Support are on the forums. They are responding to questions and giving answers without trying to hide from their obligations.


BitmainTech continues to keep most of their consumers happy.

Minor things like this often happen. BitmainTech usually ups their game and makes sure shipping issues like this get rectified.


BTCGarden Looks to new Prototype

BTCGarden is working on a new prototype. Customers happy and waiting to see the product.


-------------------------


[Thumbs Down]

 
Technobit.eu

Loshia / Marto74 concerted effort to spam the old un moderated thread has forced this to be a new moderated thread. It goes without saying that there are plenty of people that have been hurt by technobit.eu and their lack of communication to customers with valid questions and complaints coupled with the lies and trolling of the previous thread goes to the very heart of why people should avoid that company. As they continue to add more product lines they have failed to deliver again on promised Minion Group Buy boards to at least 3 customers and these customers do have substantial investments and some have not seen all their product going on 10 weeks since payment.


AMT Ran off with people's money.

Thanks to opieum2 for the link.


 Bitmine delays, no refunds just sad miners who want compensation.  

Nothing changed for Bitmine customers over the week just hurt and pain.


BFL

#ASKFTC on the 24th of September was quite good and helped consumers learn more about the current receivership that BFL is under.

Here is a compiled list Here is the full #AskFTC Q&A session regarding Butterfly Labs @ButtCoin https://storify.com/fermunation/askftc


BFL Signature Campaign  

If you want to help the FTC gather more data on BFL and make the court order receiver a permanent fixture at BFL then spread the word in your sig.

Quote
Fraud BFL questions to: [email protected] or call 816-292-8316 or #ASKFTC.

Again you can call 816-292-8316 or #ASKFTC do not let SLok, BCP19, Sonny V., Inaba/Josh walk free.


Cointerra customers banding together for a lawsuit

Cointerra should be avoided they still have not refunded and or compensated all their customers.


Black Arrow still not refunding customers  

Black Arrow continue to disappoint customers. Refunds and miners still not being shipped or provided.


KnC woefully is still not compensating customers

KnC customers continue complaints about 0 compensation. Miner troubles with the Titan.


Minersource FTC complaints being filed

Minersource has been slow to refund and provide adequate answers to questions by consumers for several months now and it is continuing.


-------------------------


[Delisted Thumbs Up]


Removed Thumbs Up Companies for Lack of Shipping (30 days without a post or units shipped)

Note: Links for threads give reasoning for lack of shipping and potential future projects. These companies could have new offerings in the future.

Twinfury USB miner Last Post  May 26, 2014  

One String Miner Last Post August 18, 2014

Nano Fury Project USB miner Last Post September 23, 2014

-----------

* If I missed a particularly juicy consumer comment or company in the snap shot feel free to PM me the quote from the Hardware / Group Buy or Scam Accusation  sections.

-----------
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
[Thumbs Up - CONSUMER]

Reputable companies that you can expect delivery on time and to spec and will, when they are in error, provide a reasonable and equitable relief to the customers satisfaction. In no particular order of importance.

 Bitmaintech

 Spondoolies Tech

 Lee Group S5 Antiminer Sales

[Thumbs Up - B2B]

 Bitfury

 Bitmaintech

 Spondoolies Tech


[Thumbs Up - RETIRED & OTHERS]

 Twinfury USB miner Project Closed / Retired.

 One String Miner Some activity on inventory sales but closed or retired. Production of this miner was halted in 2014.

 Nano Fury Project USB miner Closed / Retired Project.

 BTCGarden Suspected it has closed as they do not have chips to fabricate new miners. No news on anything new being fabricated. Watching for news.


-------------------------------------------


[Thumbs Down - CONSUMER]

Disreputable companies that have provided late delivery or not to spec and will not or have yet to provided adequate relief to customers when the company is in error. In no particular order of importance. If the company name has a line through it means it has closed, gone bankrupt or otherwise restricted in doing any business due to financial or legal issues or are most likely a straight up scam.

 Technobit Ignoring Emails and Customer Complaints. Some customers have started legal action against technobit.

 ASICMiner Fraud issues. Friedcat gone missing.

 Rockminer Substantial issue with fraud could be caught up in the Asicminer Friedcat problems.

[Thumbs Down - B2B]  

NONE

[Thumbs Down - RETIRED & OTHERS]

 KNC Horrible shipping issue and compensation is slow or non-existent. Moving to self mining model non-consumer or B2B

 CoinTerra Bankrupt

 Bitmine Being Sued.

 Black Arrow Hong Kong Police Investigating them for Fraud.

 AMT- No Longer Shipping Units. See Link

 VMC - No Longer in Business. Not shipping units.

 Minersource Suspected of major fraud. Website down. No longer responding to emails. Looks they have run off with customer funds and are no longer refunding or shipping units.

 nTek - No Longer Shipping Units. See Link

 Butterfly Labs - FTC limited them to NO pre-sales. Court date pending

 HashFast  - Forced Bankruptcy! See Link

 Avalon - Avalon chip fraud cost the community millions of dollars in lost development. Do not trust this company, they have changed names and are still overpricing inefficient units and chips.


* If you would like to COMPLAIN ANONYMOUSLY about a company feel free to PM me about that company so that your order from that company will not be put in jeopardy. As much as possible we will use posts made by customers with valid complaints posted directly in the hardware and group buy threads.


-------------------------------------------


[REASONING]

Here is my biased and opinionated guide on purchasing hardware. I am only taking into account which companies have, in my personal assessment, a reputation for delivering on time and to spec without any significant or outstanding customer service issues. This is not a comparative chart it is merely a suggestion for consumers looking for a starting point rather than having to read through all the forums and other media.

As the OP I am willing to move companies in or out of either area given sufficient complaints from customers or sufficient rectification of past indiscretions based sufficient CUSTOMER feedback from those who were injured initially. Feel free to discuss my biased and opinionated ratings in this a new moderated thread. I value the opinions of actual customers over the fabricator in every case. If you are here to troll me I will simply ignore you and delete your bs and move on to the topic at hand. This is a BIASED and OPINIONATED review of the companies still shipping units. If a company remains in the Thumbs Up or Down section I will review customer posts over the week and take a snap shot on the weekend and post their opinions with my editorial comments. This snapshot will look for negative posts for those in the Thumbs Down and positive in the Thumbs Up. Should there be significant changes to the company in how they resolve or fail to resolve issues then moving them from their current category could be warranted.

Please note there are only two categories so you will need to weigh the merits on your own and determine whether or not you would recommend someone trust a company to deliver on time and to specification and will if in error resolve any and all disputes with their customer base. Let me know if I am missing any fabricators far or wide inside or outside bitcointalk remember NO SCRYPT or ALTCOIN. ONLY SHA256 box makers please. Obviously we will just avoid the outright scams that never shipped a unit right? And please make sure to debate vigorously if you feel I am wrong in my opinion. I will change it based on evidence of customer support for the company is fairly universal.

Remember this guide is just the starting point. You can scan the list and agree or disagree and do your own research. I am giving you my best appraisal based on the reading of the bitcointalk forums and other sources. It is not a comparison of companies. It is just meant to give you a starting point especially for new members to source miners. And as always... read the Caveat Emptor by Gmaxwell and learn any purchase of mining equipment is a crapshoot at best. Good Luck hope it helps you avoid the pitfalls when buying miners.

Oh here is a great rant about ROI. Some rants about Financial ROI by TheRealSteve. Although this Rant relates to stick or usb miners it almost seems to mirror the current situation for the home miner attempting to buy now.

Further to mining there are questions regarding cloud or derivative mining contracts. Please review the thread by DrG here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8355686


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