Is taxation theft? - page 63. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Sithara007

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Quote from: bitcoinboy12 on January 10, 2017, 09:58:32 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on January 10, 2017, 05:05:16 AM

Quote from: NyeFee on January 09, 2017, 05:34:36 PM

Interestingly in all countries, officials steal. On the forum no one said that in his country, officials honest. It turns out that theft is a common issue in all countries. Why then do we need these officials?

Contrary to your belief, there are a number of countries, where the officials are not allowed to "steal". Switzerland is a perfect example. Outside of Europe, Singapore would make a good example. Japan, to some extent is also free from political corruption.

Well shouldn't it be prohibited everywhere not steal? In the first place, stealing on its own is an immoral act. Anyhow, I guess what we actually want to point out instead is that there really are countries where the people are more mindful of their government, that is why the officials would rather not to steal.

The citizens of a country usually gets the type of government which they deserve. Those in Singapore and Switzerland are not tolerant of corruption, and therefore they don't allow corrupt officials to get elected. On the other hand, the Sub Saharan Africans and South Asians are more tolerant towards corruption, and they elect officials on the basis of race, caste and creed.

countryfree

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Quote from: valta4065 on January 10, 2017, 07:23:27 PM

Quote from: countryfree on January 09, 2017, 07:40:59 PM

Quote from: valta4065 on January 05, 2017, 12:43:01 PM

Quote from: countryfree on January 04, 2017, 07:10:57 PM

Yes, mostly.

We shall all understand that some tax is necessary to keep streets and roads safe and clean, but it takes very little tax money to pay for this useful service. Most of the tax money goes to useless or real bad things like welfare. Welfare is the biggest crime manhood has ever commited on nature. There are probably some 40 millions people living off welfare on Europe, they should all die. The sooner, the better. Only the strong shall survive. Ethiopia is a much nicer place with gentler people. Most Europeans now believe it is a God given right to spend their whole life without working, with an allowance from the state to have a decent life. Tax money has corrupted their minds. Sometimes I wish the whole economic system would just crash. People would be forced to work, just as it was a century ago, or as it is today in Ethiopia.

Thank you for bringing social Darwinism here.
This is something that is commonly said in ALL medias and that people believe nowadays.
But this thesis has nothing to be based on. There is NOTHING that proves that only the strong should survive. People say that like it's some kind of magical sentence that allows them to go for a completely free market where the strong eats the weak, but that is a complete nonsense and a failure from an evolution perspective.

It has been scientifically proven that Humanity is based on COOPERATION far more than on personal strength. Our entire evolution and development is NOT based on conflict but on helping each other.

By the way, the correct sentence isn't "only the strong should survive" but "survival of the fittest" which is entirely different. This kind of behaviours and thinking is currently leading us to the end of our evolution.

Yes, there are several formulas. I've also seen survival of the smartest, or survival of those who can best adapt to change. That last one is probably the one I like most. I don't believe the strong shall eat the weak, why? Actually, the weak is just getting more and more... Useless. 100 years ago, the rich needed the poor to work in huge factories, not anymore.

Have you seen the thousands of migrants living in the streets in France, Germany, Italy? Have you traveled in Africa, or India? I've traveled a lot, and I've seen too millions in need of help. Can you help them all? Myself, I'll stick to help my family and my few friends. There are more and more people on this planet, needing more and more resources, this can't keep on going. We see thousands of animal species disappearing, I wish it would be millions of humans.

What you're saying is partly wrong for one simple reason: you talk like we hadn't the means to help everyone.
We do. Not only we do but we have what is needed to help everyone and to make sure everyone will have a decent life.
Do you even realize that the vast majority of ressources, money and materials are possessed by only an incredibly tiny part of the population?

Population is a problem that's right, but that's far from being the only one or the most important.

Oh and something else important: you take care of your family, fair enough. That's how you should live. But don't act like you're not responsible for what's happening in the world. We all have a part of responsibility. Which is not something bad in itself! It's not bad if you hurt someone to make yourself better... It's a choice that's all.
The worst part is that here we destroy the world and get nothing in return! We're being exploited like the rest of 3rd world, we just get more in return...

That's not my point. It's highly doubtful we have what it takes to give every human on Earth a decent life, but my point is that we should not provide them a decent life. I'm a lucky guy, I've seen giraffes in the wild in Kenya. They're all gone now. They've all been hunted and their natural habitat has been destroyed. The only ones remaining are in zoos or reserves.

The tigers are disappearing fast, too, and so are most large animals everywhere. Many people see nothing wrong with that, it's just a sad consequence of human's population growth. Kenya's population has grown nearly ten-fold in a single century. Man is a creation of God, so he has every right to destroy anything on the planet to support his living, with governments organizing his domination with tax money. I've seen people starving, and I've also seen a guy who seemed less than 25 driving a Bugatti Veyron, but that's not important. What really matters is that millions of people have nearly ceased to be humans, becoming unable to support themselves, because of government's various welfare policies. That's why I say most tax is theft. It's also a crime against nature, turning able men into government's puppets.

valta4065

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Quote from: BADecker on January 09, 2017, 10:16:15 PM

Right on!

Even Jesus said similar. It happened when the woman anointed his feet with some expensive oil (maybe it was spikenard), after she had washed them with her tears and dried them with her hair.

Some of the people around Jesus (particularly Judas Iscariot) condemned the woman, saying that the oil could have been sold for as much as a year's wages, and the money given to the poor. What did Jesus answer? From Mark 14:7:

Quote

The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.

Noooooooooo? That can't be true you're kidding me?
I mean, Jesus actually said "don't take care of the poors, take care of my feet"?

If that's the case that makes him a real ass hole xD

valta4065

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Quote from: countryfree on January 09, 2017, 07:40:59 PM

Quote from: valta4065 on January 05, 2017, 12:43:01 PM

Quote from: countryfree on January 04, 2017, 07:10:57 PM

Yes, mostly.

We shall all understand that some tax is necessary to keep streets and roads safe and clean, but it takes very little tax money to pay for this useful service. Most of the tax money goes to useless or real bad things like welfare. Welfare is the biggest crime manhood has ever commited on nature. There are probably some 40 millions people living off welfare on Europe, they should all die. The sooner, the better. Only the strong shall survive. Ethiopia is a much nicer place with gentler people. Most Europeans now believe it is a God given right to spend their whole life without working, with an allowance from the state to have a decent life. Tax money has corrupted their minds. Sometimes I wish the whole economic system would just crash. People would be forced to work, just as it was a century ago, or as it is today in Ethiopia.

Thank you for bringing social Darwinism here.
This is something that is commonly said in ALL medias and that people believe nowadays.
But this thesis has nothing to be based on. There is NOTHING that proves that only the strong should survive. People say that like it's some kind of magical sentence that allows them to go for a completely free market where the strong eats the weak, but that is a complete nonsense and a failure from an evolution perspective.

It has been scientifically proven that Humanity is based on COOPERATION far more than on personal strength. Our entire evolution and development is NOT based on conflict but on helping each other.

By the way, the correct sentence isn't "only the strong should survive" but "survival of the fittest" which is entirely different. This kind of behaviours and thinking is currently leading us to the end of our evolution.

Yes, there are several formulas. I've also seen survival of the smartest, or survival of those who can best adapt to change. That last one is probably the one I like most. I don't believe the strong shall eat the weak, why? Actually, the weak is just getting more and more... Useless. 100 years ago, the rich needed the poor to work in huge factories, not anymore.

Have you seen the thousands of migrants living in the streets in France, Germany, Italy? Have you traveled in Africa, or India? I've traveled a lot, and I've seen too millions in need of help. Can you help them all? Myself, I'll stick to help my family and my few friends. There are more and more people on this planet, needing more and more resources, this can't keep on going. We see thousands of animal species disappearing, I wish it would be millions of humans.

What you're saying is partly wrong for one simple reason: you talk like we hadn't the means to help everyone.
We do. Not only we do but we have what is needed to help everyone and to make sure everyone will have a decent life.
Do you even realize that the vast majority of ressources, money and materials are possessed by only an incredibly tiny part of the population?

Population is a problem that's right, but that's far from being the only one or the most important.

Oh and something else important: you take care of your family, fair enough. That's how you should live. But don't act like you're not responsible for what's happening in the world. We all have a part of responsibility. Which is not something bad in itself! It's not bad if you hurt someone to make yourself better... It's a choice that's all.
The worst part is that here we destroy the world and get nothing in return! We're being exploited like the rest of 3rd world, we just get more in return...

Dem-artini

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Quote from: Sithara007 on January 10, 2017, 05:05:16 AM

Quote from: NyeFee on January 09, 2017, 05:34:36 PM

Interestingly in all countries, officials steal. On the forum no one said that in his country, officials honest. It turns out that theft is a common issue in all countries. Why then do we need these officials?

Contrary to your belief, there are a number of countries, where the officials are not allowed to "steal". Switzerland is a perfect example. Outside of Europe, Singapore would make a good example. Japan, to some extent is also free from political corruption.

I think stealing everywhere. Just at different scales. Even in China, where embezzlement is punishable by execution officials steal. In Russia in General without exception, all officials are thieves. Trump for me is also a thief because you didn't pay taxes

BADecker

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Quote from: pepethefrog on January 10, 2017, 10:53:24 AM

Quote from: BADecker on December 28, 2016, 09:58:42 PM

When you study the word "tax" in the legal dictionaries, if you study it deeply enough, you will find that it equates to "fraud."

Cool

Exactly.

The word has a similar etymology and background as the word "extortion".

"You got a nice society there... it would be sad if something bad happened to it..."

The walking dead have a very fitting analogy of a group of people (and their boss) who require payments ... or else...

pepethefrog

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Quote from: BADecker on December 28, 2016, 09:58:42 PM

When you study the word "tax" in the legal dictionaries, if you study it deeply enough, you will find that it equates to "fraud."

Cool

Exactly.

The word has a similar etymology and background as the word "extortion".

"You got a nice society there... it would be sad if something bad happened to it..."

The walking dead have a very fitting analogy of a group of people (and their boss) who require payments ... or else...

bitcoinboy12

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Quote from: Sithara007 on January 10, 2017, 05:05:16 AM

Quote from: NyeFee on January 09, 2017, 05:34:36 PM

Interestingly in all countries, officials steal. On the forum no one said that in his country, officials honest. It turns out that theft is a common issue in all countries. Why then do we need these officials?

Contrary to your belief, there are a number of countries, where the officials are not allowed to "steal". Switzerland is a perfect example. Outside of Europe, Singapore would make a good example. Japan, to some extent is also free from political corruption.

Well shouldn't it be prohibited everywhere not steal? In the first place, stealing on its own is an immoral act. Anyhow, I guess what we actually want to point out instead is that there really are countries where the people are more mindful of their government, that is why the officials would rather not to steal.

Sithara007

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Quote from: NyeFee on January 09, 2017, 05:34:36 PM

Interestingly in all countries, officials steal. On the forum no one said that in his country, officials honest. It turns out that theft is a common issue in all countries. Why then do we need these officials?

Contrary to your belief, there are a number of countries, where the officials are not allowed to "steal". Switzerland is a perfect example. Outside of Europe, Singapore would make a good example. Japan, to some extent is also free from political corruption.

BADecker

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Quote from: countryfree on January 09, 2017, 07:40:59 PM

Quote from: valta4065 on January 05, 2017, 12:43:01 PM

Quote from: countryfree on January 04, 2017, 07:10:57 PM

Yes, mostly.

We shall all understand that some tax is necessary to keep streets and roads safe and clean, but it takes very little tax money to pay for this useful service. Most of the tax money goes to useless or real bad things like welfare. Welfare is the biggest crime manhood has ever commited on nature. There are probably some 40 millions people living off welfare on Europe, they should all die. The sooner, the better. Only the strong shall survive. Ethiopia is a much nicer place with gentler people. Most Europeans now believe it is a God given right to spend their whole life without working, with an allowance from the state to have a decent life. Tax money has corrupted their minds. Sometimes I wish the whole economic system would just crash. People would be forced to work, just as it was a century ago, or as it is today in Ethiopia.

Thank you for bringing social Darwinism here.
This is something that is commonly said in ALL medias and that people believe nowadays.
But this thesis has nothing to be based on. There is NOTHING that proves that only the strong should survive. People say that like it's some kind of magical sentence that allows them to go for a completely free market where the strong eats the weak, but that is a complete nonsense and a failure from an evolution perspective.

It has been scientifically proven that Humanity is based on COOPERATION far more than on personal strength. Our entire evolution and development is NOT based on conflict but on helping each other.

By the way, the correct sentence isn't "only the strong should survive" but "survival of the fittest" which is entirely different. This kind of behaviours and thinking is currently leading us to the end of our evolution.

Yes, there are several formulas. I've also seen survival of the smartest, or survival of those who can best adapt to change. That last one is probably the one I like most. I don't believe the strong shall eat the weak, why? Actually, the weak is just getting more and more... Useless. 100 years ago, the rich needed the poor to work in huge factories, not anymore.

Have you seen the thousands of migrants living in the streets in France, Germany, Italy? Have you traveled in Africa, or India? I've traveled a lot, and I've seen too millions in need of help. Can you help them all? Myself, I'll stick to help my family and my few friends. There are more and more people on this planet, needing more and more resources, this can't keep on going. We see thousands of animal species disappearing, I wish it would be millions of humans.

Right on!

Even Jesus said similar. It happened when the woman anointed his feet with some expensive oil (maybe it was spikenard), after she had washed them with her tears and dried them with her hair.

Some of the people around Jesus (particularly Judas Iscariot) condemned the woman, saying that the oil could have been sold for as much as a year's wages, and the money given to the poor. What did Jesus answer? From Mark 14:7:

Quote

The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.

countryfree

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Activity: 3066

Merit: 1047

Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: valta4065 on January 05, 2017, 12:43:01 PM

Quote from: countryfree on January 04, 2017, 07:10:57 PM

Yes, mostly.

We shall all understand that some tax is necessary to keep streets and roads safe and clean, but it takes very little tax money to pay for this useful service. Most of the tax money goes to useless or real bad things like welfare. Welfare is the biggest crime manhood has ever commited on nature. There are probably some 40 millions people living off welfare on Europe, they should all die. The sooner, the better. Only the strong shall survive. Ethiopia is a much nicer place with gentler people. Most Europeans now believe it is a God given right to spend their whole life without working, with an allowance from the state to have a decent life. Tax money has corrupted their minds. Sometimes I wish the whole economic system would just crash. People would be forced to work, just as it was a century ago, or as it is today in Ethiopia.

Thank you for bringing social Darwinism here.
This is something that is commonly said in ALL medias and that people believe nowadays.
But this thesis has nothing to be based on. There is NOTHING that proves that only the strong should survive. People say that like it's some kind of magical sentence that allows them to go for a completely free market where the strong eats the weak, but that is a complete nonsense and a failure from an evolution perspective.

It has been scientifically proven that Humanity is based on COOPERATION far more than on personal strength. Our entire evolution and development is NOT based on conflict but on helping each other.

By the way, the correct sentence isn't "only the strong should survive" but "survival of the fittest" which is entirely different. This kind of behaviours and thinking is currently leading us to the end of our evolution.

Yes, there are several formulas. I've also seen survival of the smartest, or survival of those who can best adapt to change. That last one is probably the one I like most. I don't believe the strong shall eat the weak, why? Actually, the weak is just getting more and more... Useless. 100 years ago, the rich needed the poor to work in huge factories, not anymore.

Have you seen the thousands of migrants living in the streets in France, Germany, Italy? Have you traveled in Africa, or India? I've traveled a lot, and I've seen too millions in need of help. Can you help them all? Myself, I'll stick to help my family and my few friends. There are more and more people on this planet, needing more and more resources, this can't keep on going. We see thousands of animal species disappearing, I wish it would be millions of humans.

NyeFee

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Quote from: SphynX18 on January 09, 2017, 04:46:40 PM

It would be consider as theft if it will not be used correctly. Some countries that implement taxation and use it for it's purpose do help their people and the improvement of their country. If politicians who have direct access on the decision on how it will be use is considerate and honest it will not be considered as theft. Taxation is for the benefit of it's country and people also their environment. It has pros and cons but the main responsible if the purpose of tax will be used wisely is the people elected or appointed to be the leader of the country. Taxation is not theft. The theft is the inconsiderate and corrupt people who selfishly use the money of the taxpayers for their own benefits.

Interestingly in all countries, officials steal. On the forum no one said that in his country, officials honest. It turns out that theft is a common issue in all countries. Why then do we need these officials?

SphynX18

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It would be consider as theft if it will not be used correctly. Some countries that implement taxation and use it for it's purpose do help their people and the improvement of their country. If politicians who have direct access on the decision on how it will be use is considerate and honest it will not be considered as theft. Taxation is for the benefit of it's country and people also their environment. It has pros and cons but the main responsible if the purpose of tax will be used wisely is the people elected or appointed to be the leader of the country. Taxation is not theft. The theft is the inconsiderate and corrupt people who selfishly use the money of the taxpayers for their own benefits.

yoseph

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it is a theft in my opinion what has the Government done for me to take my money, its not like its subsidizing anything that i use.

bitcoinboy12

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Quote from: pearlmen on January 09, 2017, 02:14:02 AM

taxation is not theft so far it has passed through the normal process of law making and if it does not, it can be declared null and void by the law court of the land but the issue is government will need money to carry out its responsibilities and pay for services the money has to come from some where.

Yep, and if anything. Those people who are "working with our taxes". Are the ones who take advantage of it. These taxes are meant to benefit the people, but government people use it for themselves - and that is what stealing actually is - using something that is not yours.

pearlmen

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taxation is not theft so far it has passed through the normal process of law making and if it does not, it can be declared null and void by the law court of the land but the issue is government will need money to carry out its responsibilities and pay for services the money has to come from some where.

Sithara007

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Quote from: igorokavg13 on January 08, 2017, 02:31:07 PM

Takes statistics the median income but is not taken into account that 72% of Russians live on an income less than 250 dollars a month.

Your figures are wrong. According to statista, 31.3% of the Russians have a monthly income of less than $250. And what about similar figures from Ukraine and Moldova? More than 90% of the people in these countries live on income less than $250 per month.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: olushakes on January 08, 2017, 04:11:01 PM

Quote from: miki77miki on December 28, 2016, 08:24:52 PM

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

Whatever the author of the video might thinks or even you, the fact still remains that if you or the author should receive any income that is under the law of government to be taxed, you will be taxed and there is nothing you will be able to do.

It is true from your own point of view that Tax is stealing but anything can be illegal if its on the other side of law even if it is as simple as drinking water. But at the same time, we all want good roads, functional hospital, adequate security, functioning school among other social amenities and yet you say taxation is theft where do you want them to get the money to make all those things happen?

It's not only black or white here. Taxes or no taxes, both options are wrong. Taxes should exist, but should be the smallest possible. Taxes should not be piled up and turn people into slaves. In today's world we pay over 50% of our income in taxes. Just add income tax to vat, excise, health insurance and many other.
Yes' I want good roads, but that's covered by my local government from my property tax. Also all my service providers (power, water, waste, sewage, internet) are private companies and I pay them every month. For each little thing I want (courts, documents, registration) I have to pay. I also pay my health insurance, road tax and many more. Every time I buy something I pay tax (usually vat, but there are other).
The question is: why should I pay income tax on top of that? Isn't this a simple theft? They are trying to take some of my hard-earned money, even if I'm not turning it to anything that would make my life better and easier.
If they want me to spend my money in their stores and improve economy why are they robbing me before I even start and what is the money spent on? Surely not on anything that I'm using.

Karloff

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Quote from: olushakes on January 08, 2017, 04:11:01 PM

Quote from: miki77miki on December 28, 2016, 08:24:52 PM

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

Whatever the author of the video might thinks or even you, the fact still remains that if you or the author should receive any income that is under the law of government to be taxed, you will be taxed and there is nothing you will be able to do.

It is true from your own point of view that Tax is stealing but anything can be illegal if its on the other side of law even if it is as simple as drinking water. But at the same time, we all want good roads, functional hospital, adequate security, functioning school among other social amenities and yet you say taxation is theft where do you want them to get the money to make all those things happen?

I agree with you. Only problem is in the fact that the taxes being stolen by not so honest officials. Maybe the author wanted to say. There are countries where people pay taxes and get nothing in return.

olushakes

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Quote from: miki77miki on December 28, 2016, 08:24:52 PM

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

Whatever the author of the video might thinks or even you, the fact still remains that if you or the author should receive any income that is under the law of government to be taxed, you will be taxed and there is nothing you will be able to do.

It is true from your own point of view that Tax is stealing but anything can be illegal if its on the other side of law even if it is as simple as drinking water. But at the same time, we all want good roads, functional hospital, adequate security, functioning school among other social amenities and yet you say taxation is theft where do you want them to get the money to make all those things happen?

Topic: Is taxation theft? - page 63. (Read 75959 times)