Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 195.

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Quote from: emrecemsan on November 23, 2022, 10:10:45 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 23, 2022, 09:02:35 AM

Daniel Riccardo is officially back at RBR as 3rd driver for the next season.

Source: https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1595401790169694211

Unexpected, does he aim at Perez's seat?

I really don't understand Ricciardo. I mean that he left Red Bull not to be the second driver there. He was having serious problems with Verstappen there as well. You must be remembering their silly accident in 2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix too. Considering all of these things I just don't see any reason for him to return here as long as Verstappen is the main driver of the team. It is obvious that Verstappen will be permanent here for many more years. Ricciardo can take only Perez's place.

Instead he could have joined Mercedes as the third driver and it would have been more sensible for him. After Hamilton retires he would have made up a nice team with Russell there.

Maybe RIcciardo thinks that he is not dreaming anymore of getting world title and thus he may have promised Redbull that I will act as a second driver for the team when Perez leaves or is sacked as long as Verstappen is here and I will only fight for the title if Verstappen performs really badly which is highly unlikely.

I agree,the best option would have been Mercedes as once Hamilton would retire probably at the end of the next season or just a bit more because his age does not permit him anymore to have better reflexes than 20-26 years old talented drivers like Verstappen is and then Ricciardo could have tried one last time the fight for the title.

emrecemsan

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 23, 2022, 09:02:35 AM

Daniel Riccardo is officially back at RBR as 3rd driver for the next season.

Source: https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1595401790169694211

Unexpected, does he aim at Perez's seat?

I really don't understand Ricciardo. I mean that he left Red Bull not to be the second driver there. He was having serious problems with Verstappen there as well. You must be remembering their silly accident in 2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix too. Considering all of these things I just don't see any reason for him to return here as long as Verstappen is the main driver of the team. It is obvious that Verstappen will be permanent here for many more years. Ricciardo can take only Perez's place.

Instead he could have joined Mercedes as the third driver and it would have been more sensible for him. After Hamilton retires he would have made up a nice team with Russell there.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 23, 2022, 09:02:35 AM

Daniel Riccardo is officially back at RBR as 3rd driver for the next season.

Source: https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1595401790169694211

Unexpected, does he aim at Perez's seat?

It all depends on how Perez performs next year,if he is the obedient team mate that he has been during all his time to Max Verstappen then most probably Redbull will extend his contract further.If he does not perform well and he is of no help to Verstappen (not that Verstappen needed any help during this season) then most likely it is true that his contract won't be extended and that Ricciardo will probably be back in the Redbull and also there is a really high probability he to end his career there as he is not that young anymore.

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Daniel Riccardo is officially back at RBR as 3rd driver for the next season.

Source: https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1595401790169694211

Unexpected, does he aim at Perez's seat?

Jackl87

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Quote from: alegotardo on November 22, 2022, 07:23:15 PM

In my opinion, Ferrari has evolved their cars a lot this season, as they started this year's championship scaring their opponents, but unfortunately the problems didn't take long to start to occur.
They are planning to invest a few more million for the season and 2023... I hope it pays off, because I've always really liked this team.

As for Mercedes, I believe that now they have really made the adjustments that they sought so much, tested and failed throughout 2022.
I expect a huge evolution for Mercedes in 2023.

I also always thought that the criticism of the Ferrari team this year was way to hard from the fans but also from experts. I mean we should never forget where the Ferrari team was last year and the years before. They managed to build a car that was able to fight for the championship this year after they were so far behind in the seasons before. So that achievement alone is pretty big in my opinion. Now they need to build upon that and also make the car more reliable.

Mercedes was very strong in the last quarter of the season. So if they are able to keep that level then they will definitely be fighting for the championship again next season.

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Quote from: Luzin on November 22, 2022, 10:33:14 AM

Today it's all money, they seem to have difficulty funding so they don't participate in MotoGP. Of course, the hope is that they will come back again, I don't know when.
Regarding Ducati, I think they have a lot of money so they have 8 ducati riders. Their development is also amazing, they can break the dominance of Asian manufacturers. Eight drivers are an advantage their Ducati will be easier for the constructors' champion. I think that opportunity is huge next season.

Ducati has developed a lot over the last few years and not just relied on one rider like Yamaha and Honda. The Ducati used to be very difficult to ride, but unlike Honda they have found a middle way to make the Ducati competitive for several riders. And this development has paid off, maybe if Lorenzo had been allowed to stay longer with Ducati he would have won the riders' world championship title with Ducati too. Ducati has learned that a star rider is not everything to win a world championship. The overall package is now simply better than that of the competition.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on November 22, 2022, 07:58:58 AM

It's a real shame that Suzuki pulled out of MotoGP, the grid is very Ducati at the moment, and it shouldn't be a Ducati World Championship. At the moment there are only 5 manufacturers, Ducati, Honda, Yamaha, KTM and Aprilia. GASGAS is also just a repainted KTM, GASGAS has been completely owned by KTM since 2019/20.

The team name that changed was the influence of the sponsor who entered the team even though they were still using the engine from the same manufacturer as before. A close example is GASGAS. Besides that, I see no difference even though only five manufacturers will stay in MotoGP next season because Suzuki's departure has reduced one factory slot for next season.

Quote from: Luzin on November 22, 2022, 10:33:14 AM

Today it's all money, they seem to have difficulty funding so they don't participate in MotoGP. Of course, the hope is that they will come back again, I don't know when.
Regarding Ducati, I think they have a lot of money so they have 8 ducati riders. Their development is also amazing, they can break the dominance of Asian manufacturers. Eight drivers are an advantage their Ducati will be easier for the constructors' champion. I think that opportunity is huge next season.

Yes, it is because of money. Because money is the main thing that allows the team owner to move together with his crew to make things needed such as developing better engines and being able to give engines to independent teams like Ducati did this season. And the race for the title in MotoGP next season I think will be even more challenging because there are some riders from Ducati who have gained more experience this season so they will try not to make more mistakes next season.

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Quote from: safari88 on November 22, 2022, 04:26:27 PM

Mercedes has not been able to compete for the championship all season, but in the last race we saw that there is enough potential in the team. I hope for Mercedes that they can bring the shape and quality of the car back to the start in the coming season. We like nothing better than a battle for the world title between Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton and Russell. It must be said that Verstappen makes almost no mistakes, only Hamilton is capable of that. Ferrari has a lot of work to do on the car, while at Red Bull it has been stable all season. Incidentally, Red Bull has good management in many sports.

In my opinion, Ferrari has evolved their cars a lot this season, as they started this year's championship scaring their opponents, but unfortunately the problems didn't take long to start to occur.
They are planning to invest a few more million for the season and 2023... I hope it pays off, because I've always really liked this team.

As for Mercedes, I believe that now they have really made the adjustments that they sought so much, tested and failed throughout 2022.
I expect a huge evolution for Mercedes in 2023.

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Mercedes has not been able to compete for the championship all season, but in the last race we saw that there is enough potential in the team. I hope for Mercedes that they can bring the shape and quality of the car back to the start in the coming season. We like nothing better than a battle for the world title between Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton and Russell. It must be said that Verstappen makes almost no mistakes, only Hamilton is capable of that. Ferrari has a lot of work to do on the car, while at Red Bull it has been stable all season. Incidentally, Red Bull has good management in many sports.

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Max just recently said in an interview that after his contract is over with Red Bull he could retire. His goal was to become a world champion, and he became one and there was a controversy with the first one, so he won it again this year and that is purely his, there is no drama going on with this one, and by the time his contract ends, he will be 31 years old and probably will get another 1-2 titles, which would show that he is good enough and he is a world champion with no question marks.

After that, his goals are over, he doesn't have any other goal while racing, he wanted to win, he won, and it's over. I don't know if he will actually do it, but it looks like he didn't race just to race, he raced to win, so after that it feels futile to him I guess.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on November 22, 2022, 07:58:58 AM

It's a real shame that Suzuki pulled out of MotoGP, the grid is very Ducati at the moment, and it shouldn't be a Ducati World Championship. At the moment there are only 5 manufacturers, Ducati, Honda, Yamaha, KTM and Aprilia. GASGAS is also just a repainted KTM, GASGAS has been completely owned by KTM since 2019/20.

Today it's all money, they seem to have difficulty funding so they don't participate in MotoGP. Of course, the hope is that they will come back again, I don't know when.
Regarding Ducati, I think they have a lot of money so they have 8 ducati riders. Their development is also amazing, they can break the dominance of Asian manufacturers. Eight drivers are an advantage their Ducati will be easier for the constructors' champion. I think that opportunity is huge next season.

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Quote from: Luzin on November 21, 2022, 10:39:34 AM

The end of the class showed that Ducati is ready to be dominant next season. Ducati's long wait comes this year. This makes it look like the competition will shift to Ducati. They have 8 drivers for the 2022 season. It was very profitable to be able to become a constructors' champion.
For next year maybe they will still be dominant if their drivers don't wane. In addition, the potential for a re-champion seems quite open, until now I have not found any news about the development of Yamaha bikes, and Honda.

I read if there will be many updates in the MotoGP class. There will be 2 new teams namely Tech3 GASGAS Factory Racing and Aprilia's RNF MotoGP. Here's temporary data for the 2023 season.

It's a real shame that Suzuki pulled out of MotoGP, the grid is very Ducati at the moment, and it shouldn't be a Ducati World Championship. At the moment there are only 5 manufacturers, Ducati, Honda, Yamaha, KTM and Aprilia. GASGAS is also just a repainted KTM, GASGAS has been completely owned by KTM since 2019/20.

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Quote from: judas on November 20, 2022, 07:47:58 AM

Image source: https://gpracingstats.com/seasons/2022-world-championship/pole-positions/

This image shows the drivers who have taken pole positions so far. Even though Verstappen is already the champion even he is behind Leclerc about pole position statistics. Leclerc has 9 poles while Verstappen has 7 now. This proves how strong Ferrari have been in qualifying sessions so far despite their having weaknesses and making big mistakes in races. On this week Ferrari managed to get past Mercedes. Leclerc is starting right behind Perez which is really going to be interesting.

Both drivers need as much points as possible for securing the second spot in the driver championship. Leclerc is normally a more aggressive driver than Perez indeed. If he doesn't have important problems with the car or any other mistakes by the team then I think he can finish ahead of Perez. But as Perez is a great driver about defense he can make big difficulties for him at the same time. We can watch a wonderful rivalry in this very last race of the season.

Ferarri truly had one of the best cars for dominating just one lap speed, they were really good there. They weren't good at race speed and overtaking, that was a problem for them, and definitely had a trouble with defending for sure but when it comes to just one lap speed then they were as good as any other team, even better than Red Bull if you ask me.

They just failed because they had plenty of mistakes, DNF's and tire selection issues, and plenty of things like that, when you combine all of those together, they could have gotten like at least another 100+ points, which also means drop in points for Max because of that as well, but it's racing for you, sometimes you can do all right, and then one mistake causes you the whole race.

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In this season we have watched;

- Ferrari started solidly and gave big hopes for their fans but it didn't last long. They failed big time by huge mistakes especially and caused Leclerc's title chance to end early.
- Red Bull dominated the whole season and Verstappen reached a very comfortable title this time after that unforgettable race with Hamilton in the previous season.
- Mercedes started really badly but they made a big improvement and started to get ahead of Ferrari as well.

Next season I don't expect less than this from Red Bull. Mercedes really have a potential to fight at a similar level with them. But Ferrari might still be a disappointment unless they make significant changes.

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The end of the class showed that Ducati is ready to be dominant next season. Ducati's long wait comes this year. This makes it look like the competition will shift to Ducati. They have 8 drivers for the 2022 season. It was very profitable to be able to become a constructors' champion.
For next year maybe they will still be dominant if their drivers don't wane. In addition, the potential for a re-champion seems quite open, until now I have not found any news about the development of Yamaha bikes, and Honda.

I read if there will be many updates in the MotoGP class. There will be 2 new teams namely Tech3 GASGAS Factory Racing and Aprilia's RNF MotoGP. Here's temporary data for the 2023 season.

Source: https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2022/11/03/provisional-2023-entry-lists-who-sits-where-next-year/443474

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Quote from: püsür on November 21, 2022, 07:53:32 AM

The season is over and congratulations Max. Although they became champions by exceeding the budget, I would like to congratulate Redbull separately and wish Ferrari and Mercedes a heavy loss. While it was known that redbull would exceed the budget before the half of the season came, neither Ferrari nor Mercedes could take any action. Everyone knew that Redbull would get a small penalty and get rid of it. Binotto missed the opportunity. You are the brand of this sport, you have been obsessed since the beginning of the year about the budget. Just improve your car. Do not care about the fine, look at redbull, the guys developed the car and became champions. The result is a three cent penalty. Congratulations to Marko and Horner, they manupilate f1 management easily.

Toto, on the other hand, was a smart man, but the wrong concept of the vehicle ruined all his work, otherwise he would have forced Redbull again this year. No matter how hard they tried, the train had run away from the beginning.

Ferrari must immediately part ways with binotto, sainz, strategy and the pit crew or they will be more frustrated. It feels like next year we will watch a championship between max and mercedes again. Ferrari is not in this race.

^ Yeah they blamed 'catering costs' that they didn't include as part of the spend they used to develop the car. And sure it's prolly just a lame excuse. But next season and with the fine and the penalty on Red Bull, if they come out still winning the next season, what would that say about Merc and Ferrari? :/

Everybody thinks the pressure is on Red Bull but really there could be more pressure on the other top teams. Now they have no excuse and would have to win the next season.

Can't wait for next season... Let the memes and the banter commence.

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The season is over and congratulations Max. Although they became champions by exceeding the budget, I would like to congratulate Redbull separately and wish Ferrari and Mercedes a heavy loss. While it was known that redbull would exceed the budget before the half of the season came, neither Ferrari nor Mercedes could take any action. Everyone knew that Redbull would get a small penalty and get rid of it. Binotto missed the opportunity. You are the brand of this sport, you have been obsessed since the beginning of the year about the budget. Just improve your car. Do not care about the fine, look at redbull, the guys developed the car and became champions. The result is a three cent penalty. Congratulations to Marko and Horner, they manupilate f1 management easily.

Toto, on the other hand, was a smart man, but the wrong concept of the vehicle ruined all his work, otherwise he would have forced Redbull again this year. No matter how hard they tried, the train had run away from the beginning.

Ferrari must immediately part ways with binotto, sainz, strategy and the pit crew or they will be more frustrated. It feels like next year we will watch a championship between max and mercedes again. Ferrari is not in this race.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 20, 2022, 04:23:36 PM

Quote from: judas on November 20, 2022, 07:47:58 AM

This image shows the drivers who have taken pole positions so far. Even though Verstappen is already the champion even he is behind Leclerc about pole position statistics. Leclerc has 9 poles while Verstappen has 7 now. This proves how strong Ferrari have been in qualifying sessions so far despite their having weaknesses and making big mistakes in races. On this week Ferrari managed to get past Mercedes. Leclerc is starting right behind Perez which is really going to be interesting.

Leclecr is also the most talented in the grid even over Max as single lap performance, he did so many miracles in these years.

He need to improve in races but he has less expirience over Max, he will have time if he will have a competitive car.

That sums it up pretty well about Leclerc,I also like him a lot as a driver but he loses focus during the long run or at least he is not as good as he is in a single lap time.The last pole of him in Singapore from him confirms to me what you just said,however he has been in F1 for about 4 years and next it will be 5 or maybe even more I don't remember well and that is enough time for someone to improve himself.

The only thing he has missed is a competitive car throughout the whole season as he had one in the first 7-8 races of this season but from then and on could not have such car again because of the supremacy of Redbull.

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Quote from: Distraction on November 20, 2022, 11:06:13 AM

Truthfully it wasn't an impressive race. The first laps of the race was really intriguing but after that it was just boring.

I agree this was one of the most boring races of this season in my opinion. A big reason for that is obviously that the Championship was already decided some weeks ago and to be honest the fight for the second place was only hyped up by the media in my opinion in order to create some drama and excitement before the race but in the end it is just the second place and not many people really care about that in my opinion.
Also today was the last race for Sebastian Vettel and also for Mick Schumacher. For me it is pretty said that his contract by Haas was not prolonged but i think he will be back in the Formula 1 pretty soon. Today he made one mistake again but he still was ahead of Magnussen. I think he has the quality to be a permanent F1 driver.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on November 20, 2022, 04:44:10 PM

I'll correct you. IIRC, Brawn GP won most race only in the first half of season. In second part they won just few races and there was quite a lot different race winners then.
I wouldn't be surprised if Verstappen's result will be beaten. Maybe by himself. It's needed that one team would have car which completely dominate against others. It looked that Schumaher's 91 wins record won't be beatean never, but such things become possible when we have such long seasons like 23-24 races. In past there was something like 18 races during whole season.

Only adding 2 things here maybe 3.

Every year will we have more races, I think we will have even 30 races or even more with the sprint races, so points and wins will be increase in absoulte number.
It is even easier for Max to get a big number since he has a weak mate in his team if he will still have a dominant car.

The perfect example is the mondial of 2016 with the most dominat car maybe ever made
19 of 21 wins where from Mercedes, 20 of 21 poles and inone race they "killed" themself if you can remember

Source: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fanpage.it%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F27%2F2021%2F05%2Fhamilton-rosberg-spagna-2016-1200x675.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fanpage.it%2Fsport%2Fmotori%2Fla-guerra-tra-hamilton-e-rosberg-alla-mercedes-lultima-grande-faida-interna-in-formula-1%2F&tbnid=5g67GX8EI8wA3M&vet=12ahUKEwiDntXp3r37AhUYxAIHHS5oDl8QMygDegUIARDCAQ..i&docid=V8_oHb2Ghy2EeM&w=1200&h=675&q=hamilton%20rosberg%20incidente&client=firefox-b-d&ved=2ahUKEwiDntXp3r37AhUYxAIHHS5oDl8QMygDegUIARDCAQ
but Hamilton got a strong teamate and they both

There the results

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Formula_One_World_Championship

TDLR, instead of watching the number of wins we should look for the % of winning.

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