Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 252.

Koal-84

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Quote from: Cnut237 on June 22, 2022, 06:08:00 AM

I think this is just talk, there's next to zero chance of Mercedes challenging for the title this year.

Most races follow the same pattern, Leclerc takes pole, Verstappen just behind him. Verstappen in the faster race-distance car overtakes Leclerc and wins. Leclerc takes second or retires the car. Perez and Sainz bumble about lower down the order, in cars that should finish 3rd and 4th every race... Mercedes are ultra-reliable but slow, and finish 5th/6th unless Ferrari have issues or Perez/Sainz perform badly... in which case the Mercs can move up a couple of places.

But there's no chance of Merc winning a race unless both Verstappen and Leclerc retire their cars.

I think so too, but how would it look if Mercedes publicly gave up after 9 races and Wolf said we're writing off the season, there's no chance for us anyway. Ferrari and RedBull have also lost a lot of points because of defects, they are fast but not very reliable.

But I don't agree with you on one point, Perez and Sainz are two strong drivers, they won't really fight for the world championship title, but Perez shows that he's not just a second driver, he wants to be in the race for the win, but he also has a lot of bad luck with defects.

Cnut237

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Quote from: Koal-84 on June 22, 2022, 04:34:02 AM

In an interview Toto Wolf said that Mercedes has not written off the championship yet, they will probably get the bouncing problem under control/understand it better in the next races I would say and the Mercedes is currently the most reliable car in the field. There will be several more penalties and retirements for Ferrari and RedBull and Mercedes will keep scoring points.

I think this is just talk, there's next to zero chance of Mercedes challenging for the title this year.

Most races follow the same pattern, Leclerc takes pole, Verstappen just behind him. Verstappen in the faster race-distance car overtakes Leclerc and wins. Leclerc takes second or retires the car. Perez and Sainz bumble about lower down the order, in cars that should finish 3rd and 4th every race... Mercedes are ultra-reliable but slow, and finish 5th/6th unless Ferrari have issues or Perez/Sainz perform badly... in which case the Mercs can move up a couple of places.

But there's no chance of Merc winning a race unless both Verstappen and Leclerc retire their cars.

Koal-84

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Quote from: lixer on June 21, 2022, 04:10:24 PM

I mean they are failing to fix that bouncing problem, and that is the main reason why they are not at the top anymore. If they race with 100% and go full blast then the car bounces a lot and they stop being fast, when it goes down because of the wind, it should stay low, but it bounces back and slows them down.

He assumed that they would fix this by the time Silverstone came, but they haven't so far, maybe they will until that race, but when they do, they will definitely be close to the top even more, not saying that they will win anything or not, maybe a few races but Max is already 2 wins ahead of Charles, so I am assuming that Perez would be a bigger risk to Max this year than any racer from any other team, even if they end up winning a few times.

In an interview Toto Wolf said that Mercedes has not written off the championship yet, they will probably get the bouncing problem under control/understand it better in the next races I would say and the Mercedes is currently the most reliable car in the field. There will be several more penalties and retirements for Ferrari and RedBull and Mercedes will keep scoring points.

Here is Wolf's statement in German.

https://www.formel1.de/news/news/2022-05-19/formel-1-liveticker-mercedes-hat-wm-noch-nicht-abgeschrieben

lixer

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Quote from: swogerino on June 21, 2022, 08:23:10 AM

I did not see any improvement from the Mercedes especially in this track full of straights where usually the Mercedes engine excels in.It did not do so in this race,they only got to the podium and 4th because of Leclerc starting 19th and Perez having a power engine failure otherwise they would be 5th and 6th which in this season seems like their natural habitat.I am starting to doubt now Totto Wolf words before the beginning of this season when he said near Silverstone or after Silverstone we should start to fight for a win,we are now near Silverstone and I have not seen any fight for the win nor I predict one.

I mean they are failing to fix that bouncing problem, and that is the main reason why they are not at the top anymore. If they race with 100% and go full blast then the car bounces a lot and they stop being fast, when it goes down because of the wind, it should stay low, but it bounces back and slows them down.

He assumed that they would fix this by the time Silverstone came, but they haven't so far, maybe they will until that race, but when they do, they will definitely be close to the top even more, not saying that they will win anything or not, maybe a few races but Max is already 2 wins ahead of Charles, so I am assuming that Perez would be a bigger risk to Max this year than any racer from any other team, even if they end up winning a few times.

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The British GP is going to be a lot of fun hopefully. Hamilton has dominated this GP for a long time but this time can be very different than those times. Hamilton won this GP eight times and won it in the last three seasons too. Now Mercedes have a really problematic car and there is no way Hamilton is winning this GP again. I mean that he will need to have a very lucky race in which Red Bull and Ferrari struggle a lot. I don't think that both of these teams would experience this. I'm favouring Leclerc to win this time but his job is going to be very hard against Verstappen.

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Quote from: wmaurik on June 21, 2022, 12:02:00 PM

The German Grand Prix has proved that Honda doesn't get any points through its four riders and that was also the case with Honda (40 years ago) at the 1982 French Grand Prix. It was a very bad achievement for the Honda manufacturer because for the last 12 years the Honda manufacturer has always won the German Grand Prix which was won by Marc Marquez on average and three of them by Dani Pedrosa since 2010. But for this year Honda has really slumped with his achievement was because their drivers could not bring home points at the German Grand Prix.

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2022/06/20/honda-record-no-points-for-first-time-in-40-years/426938

That is a really bad result for Honda.However they have been dominating this sport for so long with some years being beaten by Yamaha and sometimes from Ducati but overall Honda has dominated here at least from 2002 which I first saw MotoGP and those great battles between Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi were some of the best duels I have seen in the MotoGP.In fact after Biaggi retired when he was beaten by Rossi even though he was riding a Honda and Rossi not everything was not as it was and never again I saw such duels with Rossi and other riders.Hopefully this will change.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on June 21, 2022, 01:20:23 PM

MotoGP is getting here and not exciting, not because of the retirement of vr46 or marq's injury, but less exciting, less exciting, less exciting overtaking, less exciting now that WSBK is an exciting spectacle for the souls of a race full of battles. One the other hand, It sucks that Ducati riders can't take advantage of the opportunities with the most teams. Even though Marc is absent.

The retirement of a living legend, Valentino Rossi, has reduced the number of spectators at Mugello (according to the news that I read in local media gpzone.id) and Dorna feels a little disappointed with this because the organizers of MotoGP basically also want to make MotoGP more exciting than the event. Because of that WSBK was also organized by Dorna so that in the past few days Dorna has made a survey form for everyone for the sake of new things that might be changed by Dorna for a better future for MotoGP.
Survey Link: https://global-motogp-fan-survey-2022.motorsportnetwork.com/survey

Davidvictorson

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MotoGP is getting here and not exciting, not because of the retirement of vr46 or marq's injury, but less exciting, less exciting, less exciting overtaking, less exciting now that WSBK is an exciting spectacle for the souls of a race full of battles. One the other hand, It sucks that Ducati riders can't take advantage of the opportunities with the most teams. Even though Marc is absent.

wmaurik

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The German Grand Prix has proved that Honda doesn't get any points through its four riders and that was also the case with Honda (40 years ago) at the 1982 French Grand Prix. It was a very bad achievement for the Honda manufacturer because for the last 12 years the Honda manufacturer has always won the German Grand Prix which was won by Marc Marquez on average and three of them by Dani Pedrosa since 2010. But for this year Honda has really slumped with his achievement was because their drivers could not bring home points at the German Grand Prix.

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2022/06/20/honda-record-no-points-for-first-time-in-40-years/426938

Davian144

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A heartwarming initiative by @stichting.happysmile and our truck driver John - they came up with the TT Truckrun 2022 🥰

50 truck drivers from the MotoGP paddock volunteered to work together with volunteers from local police and fire stations to put on a very special event for children with a chronic illness or intellectual disability. The children were welcomed aboard the MotoGP truck convoy, riding about 50km towards the @ttcircuitassen ❤️
_{Source: yamahamotogp}

swogerino

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Quote from: Cnut237 on June 21, 2022, 05:45:29 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 19, 2022, 03:28:54 PM

Impressive race for Mercedes, they are getting closer to the top once again.

I'd disagree. Mercedes have a reliable car, so it's likely to finish a race... but it's also not as fast as a Ferrari or an RB. The natural position for a Merc driver at the moment is 5th or 6th, they have no chance of finishing above a Ferrari or an RB unless some mishap befalls Leclerc or Verstappen, or the car is driven by a less competent driver (Sainz, Perez).

I agree with you.I did not see any improvement from the Mercedes especially in this track full of straights where usually the Mercedes engine excels in.It did not do so in this race,they only got to the podium and 4th because of Leclerc starting 19th and Perez having a power engine failure otherwise they would be 5th and 6th which in this season seems like their natural habitat.I am starting to doubt now Totto Wolf words before the beginning of this season when he said near Silverstone or after Silverstone we should start to fight for a win,we are now near Silverstone and I have not seen any fight for the win nor I predict one.

Cnut237

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 19, 2022, 03:28:54 PM

Impressive race for Mercedes, they are getting closer to the top once again.

I'd disagree. Mercedes have a reliable car, so it's likely to finish a race... but it's also not as fast as a Ferrari or an RB. The natural position for a Merc driver at the moment is 5th or 6th, they have no chance of finishing above a Ferrari or an RB unless some mishap befalls Leclerc or Verstappen, or the car is driven by a less competent driver (Sainz, Perez).

Koal-84

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Quote from: bestcoins1 on June 20, 2022, 08:13:21 AM

Some of the racers did look confused in choosing tires when the race started even though the weather conditions were very good, so the combination of medium and hard tires was the right choice. Even Fabio was able to make distance with Johan Zarco when the race was already halfway and Zarco himself was not able to approach Fabio using Hard tires front and back.

Bagnaia's own goal at the beginning of this season was to slowly pursue Fabio's points in each race, which means Bagnaia must always be able to finish in front of Fabio.
But Bagnaia has not been able to do that because until now Bagnaia has only been able to win the race 2 times, while Fabio has 3 times.
And what's unique is that Fabio rarely crashes, but the opposite happened to Bagnaia.

Some driver were playing around with the tyres, but Fabio made the right decision and the tyres didn't degrade excessively over the whole distance. So Fabio did everything right.

Bagnaia also started late last season and couldn't quite catch up at the end and always had to ride at the limit. Fabio already has the experience as a world champion, he rides very dry, but I can also remember the seasons before Fabio became world champion, Mir was more consistent than Fabio and won the world championship because of that.

el kaka22

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Charles actually did all he can at least for this race, this is what was people looked for in him. When he is fighting for the top place, he is always nervous and could make some mistakes, but when he is fighting for just positions, like top 5 or something then it becomes a lot easier for them.

I guess that it is not going to be pretty straight forward for them, just make sure that you do not get nervous and crackdown when you are leading, both the team and Charles get nervous I suppose because team makes a lot of mistakes as well. He will have a pretty good car for the next race, and he should be qualifying very well, I am guessing another Charles win "may" come soon.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on June 20, 2022, 07:32:09 AM

That's exactly what I think, Fabio was pushing with the softer tyres and Bagnaia didn't want to let Fabio go, but his harder tyres didn't allow it and he slipped over the front tyre. Bagnaia himself said it was a mistake like a Moto2 rider on a wet track.

Some of the racers did look confused in choosing tires when the race started even though the weather conditions were very good, so the combination of medium and hard tires was the right choice. Even Fabio was able to make distance with Johan Zarco when the race was already halfway and Zarco himself was not able to approach Fabio using Hard tires front and back.

Quote

For Bagnaia, it is now very tight for the world championship if he does not find the track, last year it was similar where he caught up at the end of the season, but that is simply too little seen over the whole year.

Bagnaia's own goal at the beginning of this season was to slowly pursue Fabio's points in each race, which means Bagnaia must always be able to finish in front of Fabio.
But Bagnaia has not been able to do that because until now Bagnaia has only been able to win the race 2 times, while Fabio has 3 times.
And what's unique is that Fabio rarely crashes, but the opposite happened to Bagnaia.

Koal-84

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Quote from: bestcoins1 on June 19, 2022, 04:49:25 PM

Quote from: Koal-84 on June 19, 2022, 02:28:27 PM

Again a strong performance by Fabio, for Bagnaia it was probably a small preliminary decision regarding the world championship, so it will be more of a world championship battle between Fabio and Aleix. I did not expect this season in any case, so it will be with a Ducati title again nothing after the strong last season.

Bagnaia had made a bit of a mistake at the start of the race trying to push the bike harder, whereas with Hard tires front and rear it shouldn't be pushing too hard at the start of the race because it can be so dangerous that the result is a Crash. And Aleix from Aprilia also didn't get a podium so Fabio's points in the standings were starting to look far away for Aleix to chase.

That's exactly what I think, Fabio was pushing with the softer tyres and Bagnaia didn't want to let Fabio go, but his harder tyres didn't allow it and he slipped over the front tyre. Bagnaia himself said it was a mistake like a Moto2 rider on a wet track.

For Bagnaia, it is now very tight for the world championship if he does not find the track, last year it was similar where he caught up at the end of the season, but that is simply too little seen over the whole year.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 19, 2022, 03:28:54 PM

Good recovery from Ferrari but Sainz had no possibility to overtake Max.
Impressive race for Mercedes, they are getting closer to the top once again.

LeClerc was able to reach the 5th position in the end, as many have predicted. It was pretty obvious that he would not have big problems to be in the top 10 pretty quickly as all those other cars in that area of the table are just way weaker than the Ferrari and Canada is a good track to overtake too. So i think in the end LeClerc can be satisfied with this position. Verstappen did win again which of course is not very good for LeClerc but he can only influence the outcome of his own race obviously.
Also Mick Schumacher had to stop the race in the 20th round which was very unlucky for him. I think otherwise he would have been able to fight for his first points yesterday.

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It was a good race for Ferrari while it was a bad one for Red Bull. Because Perez wasn't able to finish the race and only Verstappen got points. He won the race though but Ferrari were more advantageous as they collected four more points than them. Sainz managed to keep the fastest lap until the end and he did his best to win his first ever race in F1. He couldn't do it as Verstappen was too fast and amazing about securing the lead. Leclerc also did a great job by ending at the 5th place despite starting from the last place.

Koal-84

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 19, 2022, 03:28:54 PM

Good recovery from Ferrari but Sainz had no possibility to overtake Max.

Impressive race for Mercedes, they are getting closer to the top once again.

In this race, the Red Bulls were once again at fault, and the race went very well for Verstappen. The Ferrari was too slow on the straights, even with DRS, to overtake the RedBull. But Sainz had a very good race, Mercedes are not the fastest at the moment, but the Mercedes is definitely the most reliable, but for the world championship only reliability will not be enough.

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Quote from: alegotardo on June 19, 2022, 08:42:47 PM

Quote from: ingiltere on June 19, 2022, 03:37:45 PM

That was one of the cleanest races despite three DNF, they weren't big crashes. Mick Schumacher was unlucky again, I wonder when will he get points. Bad day for Sergio Perez but good for his teammate. Verstappen won another race without too much pressure. Last ten laps were exciting but Sainz couldn't find an opportunity to overtake Max. Good race for Mercedes, Hamilton got another podium and Russell finished fourth, and driver of the day was definitely Charles Leclerc. He went from last place to finish fifth. He could've been in better position if he didn't get caught in the traffic after pit stop. Fun race though, not the best one we've seen.

Leclerc really shined and it's a shame that the events of the race prevented him from having an even more wonderful day... first he was stuck behind Steban Ocon on tires that could have given him a few more important positions, and after the pitstop a few more. DSR that prevented him from advancing... finally we could still see him shine at the end of the circuit and finish fifth. but I believe he deserved at least to have won another place on the podium.
I hope he continues to shine in the next races, he is a driver who has surprised me since he started in F1.

He has surprised everyone and not just you.He was a normal driver or at least we thought of him to be a normal driver because he had not until yet the possibility to drive a winning car.Now that he has this opportunity he is shining in every race and only increasing his performances except at Imola where the pressure to do good in front of Ferrari fans got the best out of him and he made a lot of errors.He is fighting hard to win every race but a lot of problems got the best of him lately,a power engine failure in Spain,a catastrophic team error in Monaco,another failure in Baku and now in Canada forced to start in the end of the grid.Difficult for him but if he is good enough he should take advantage of the not so fast tracks that we are going to visit in the next couple of races.

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