No petrol/diesel car sales by 2035/ Reality or dream? - page 17.

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average electric car price is very expensive

Quite a few cannot buy the brand new petrol car either, it would be a waste to them as even a ten year old car is reliable enough to work and do the job just fine. If we compare the electric car market secondhand also, its similar in that prices can be affordable. Some think electric car cannot last ten years but in fact they do with some capacity reduction, most people driving through a town will be fine for this type of cheap usage second hand. The larger challenge is going to be long haul and trucks is something Im not so sure about.
Overall technology will keep improving and battery technology, its quite feasible for improvements to filter through the market to normal average budget people.

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Quote from: disconnectme on July 03, 2023, 04:00:59 PM

For now, I believe this is a pipe dream, the question that comes to mind is that what are these people pushing this agenda after, we did not ban horses when the gasoline car was invented, why can't they let the market forces dictate this. if they think the electric cars are better and sound, the market will align with this thought with time. we have had so many advancements in technology over the years and people were not forced into making a choice, the better ones always win.

The market has always found its way. No matter how much interference, innovation always comes if people who want innovation insist on what they want. But, as you said, the arrival of an innovation does not mean that the old one is not used. We don't have to make a choice.

What we need will come to us in time. As I said, time will tell the answers to these questions. The date given in the title may not be correct because the automobile market is a huge market that covers the whole world.

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Quote from: molsewid on July 03, 2023, 04:10:59 PM

Quote from: disconnectme on July 03, 2023, 04:00:59 PM

For now, I believe this is a pipe dream, the question that comes to mind is that what are these people pushing this agenda after, we did not ban horses when the gasoline car was invented, why can't they let the market forces dictate this. if they think the electric cars are better and sound, the market will align with this thought with time. we have had so many advancements in technology over the years and people were not forced into making a choice, the better ones always win.

It is possible since almost all of the things now are electronics and most of the mechants now accepts crypto , the only thing that didn't accept crypto so much is the govt but all in all we can say that it is reality that when 2035 arrives there will be less car fueled by gas or anything and the price arises each day but again it will not come easily, some people cannot accepts innovation properly.

this goal is achievable in most european small countries, which have been onto this goal for years already. so more than a decade of preparation i believe is enough for them to achieve such target. however, if the country is quite big and there are so many stakeholders stopping such mission, it won't happen even after so many decades of preparation.

let's take for example of these 7 countries who are serious to say goodbye to fossil-fuel powered cars with corresponding population
https://futurism.com/these-7-countries-want-to-say-goodbye-to-fossil-fuel-based-cars
germany - 83.31M
norway - 5.54M
india - 1.42B
france - 68.04M
the UK. -68.95M
netherlands - 17.86M
china - 1.455B

which one do you think has high probability of achieving such target? definitely, the first country which will achieve such feat is norway. coming second is netherlands. just my guess here.

molsewid

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Quote from: disconnectme on July 03, 2023, 04:00:59 PM

For now, I believe this is a pipe dream, the question that comes to mind is that what are these people pushing this agenda after, we did not ban horses when the gasoline car was invented, why can't they let the market forces dictate this. if they think the electric cars are better and sound, the market will align with this thought with time. we have had so many advancements in technology over the years and people were not forced into making a choice, the better ones always win.

It is possible since almost all of the things now are electronics and most of the mechants now accepts crypto , the only thing that didn't accept crypto so much is the govt but all in all we can say that it is reality that when 2035 arrives there will be less car fueled by gas or anything and the price arises each day but again it will not come easily, some people cannot accepts innovation properly.

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For now, I believe this is a pipe dream, the question that comes to mind is that what are these people pushing this agenda after, we did not ban horses when the gasoline car was invented, why can't they let the market forces dictate this. if they think the electric cars are better and sound, the market will align with this thought with time. we have had so many advancements in technology over the years and people were not forced into making a choice, the better ones always win.

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Many governments are moving to push hard to reduce sales of diesel and petrol cars, the European Parliament has officially approved a law banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the EU from 2035

Quote

The landmark law will require carmakers to cut down CO2 emissions by 100 percent.
The 100 percent cut in CO2 emissions from new cars sold would make it impossible to sell petrol or diesel-powered cars in the 27-country bloc. The law that comes into effect in phases that will require a 55 percent cut in CO2 emissions for new cars starting 2030, which is a much higher target in comparison to the current 37.5 percent.

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

Honestly it feels totally unrealistic to expect such a large shift in such a short period of time. There is a gradual shift over and the balance is definitely tipping towards electric cars, at least in the most developed countries around the world, but they are currently still super expensive and out of reach of most people. The second hand market in electric vehicles is still in it's infancy and the leaps in battery technology is excellent but varied. There is a whole swath of different charging technology that needs to become more standardized and masses of infrastructure needs a rethink to accommodate it. In many countries the actual ability to charge such a volume of electric cars seem so incomprehensible and difficult right now.

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Currently electric cars have become a serious threat to diesel and gasoline cars, and I believe that by 2035 everything will become a reality that there are no more diesel or gasoline cars, all countries will use electric cars, let alone the government has issued a law, of course this is a serious problem they want to realize, but the problem will be the average electric car price is very expensive so people who are economy class will be more difficult to own a car, So this problem must also be adjusted.

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Quote from: Huppercase on July 03, 2023, 02:59:04 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on July 02, 2023, 04:59:27 AM

The correct answer is this:
- In highly developed countries, there is a high probability that there will be a dramatic reduction in the production and sales of PERSONAL vehicles powered by internal combustion engines. There are all the conditions for this - an acceptable income of the majority of the population to replace/buy hybrid/electric cars, a developed infrastructure for electric cars.
- In other countries, there will be a trend, but there will not be a quick transition. The reasons are exactly the opposite - insufficient income level of citizens, lagging behind the infrastructure of generation and delivery of electricity for cars of mass use.

There is more to why this adaptation of electronic cars will be difficult in less developed countries, it's not that some individuals don't have the money to purchase this vehicles to follow the trend but where to use it becomes a challenge due to bad roads. Most of these hybrid cars can only be use where there is good roads and source of electricity and the less developed countries are always having this problem of having 24/7 power supply, how will they use these cars, they don't have good infrastructure to begin with, I can't imagine cases of emergency and no source of power in the car, it will be a terrible thing to observed.

The dream of no petrol cars might be effective and soar in developed countries but I don't think so for third world countries that are struggling to feed and cure poverty rate, because it has been proven that Electric cars are even more costly than petrol cars. Many people will settle for the lessers price even in developed countries where the trend will be available.

Yes, I totally agree !
In addition to financial and technological problems, there are infrastructural and operational problems. But there is a solution here too, in favor of China

China produces a lot of budget electric cars, with very simple characteristics, and not very demanding to the "environment". I'll immediately assume that many "non-budget" carmakers will also be entering this market - the market of budget electric cars, and it is even possible mass construction of plants for the production of basic units and plants for large-scale assembly of such products. This is also profitable - the demand is high, the margin is not large - but the sales volumes can be very high. But...it takes time

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Quote from: xSkylarx on February 17, 2023, 06:46:01 AM

How about those poor countries? Are they capable of having charging stations in those remote areas? I think this would be implemented in rich countries, as they are sure to be capable of it. For sure, in that year, electric cars will be more affordable compared to their price right now, as most people really want electric vehicles, but the problem is that they don't have charging stations, and the price is also very expensive. Also now for sure that it is pretty normal to see electric cars running on the road, unlike right now, it is a head-turner when you see one.

Maybe only certain countries can replace the dominance of petrol/diesel fuel cars with electric cars that are environmentally friendly, such as Germany, which has excess electricity supply, maybe the realization can be quicker. To realize electric cars dominate in a country or kill petrol/diesel fuel cars, it needs a bigger supply of electricity because to charge an electric car battery reportedly it takes 6000 VA for one car.
The popularity of electric cars has skyrocketed thanks to technological breakthroughs by Tesla, General Motors (GM) and Nissan, which have resulted in low-cost production of batteries for vehicles. The role of electric cars is considered very important for the purpose of minimizing exhaust emissions, greenhouse emissions and air pollution. Several major countries are starting to draw up plans to end sales of vehicles that use petrol/diesel fuel.

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Quote from: Huppercase on July 03, 2023, 02:59:04 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on July 02, 2023, 04:59:27 AM

The correct answer is this:
- In highly developed countries, there is a high probability that there will be a dramatic reduction in the production and sales of PERSONAL vehicles powered by internal combustion engines. There are all the conditions for this - an acceptable income of the majority of the population to replace/buy hybrid/electric cars, a developed infrastructure for electric cars.
- In other countries, there will be a trend, but there will not be a quick transition. The reasons are exactly the opposite - insufficient income level of citizens, lagging behind the infrastructure of generation and delivery of electricity for cars of mass use.

There is more to why this adaptation of electronic cars will be difficult in less developed countries, it's not that some individuals don't have the money to purchase this vehicles to follow the trend but where to use it becomes a challenge due to bad roads. Most of these hybrid cars can only be use where there is good roads and source of electricity and the less developed countries are always having this problem of having 24/7 power supply, how will they use these cars, they don't have good infrastructure to begin with, I can't imagine cases of emergency and no source of power in the car, it will be a terrible thing to observed.

The dream of no petrol cars might be effective and soar in developed countries but I don't think so for third world countries that are struggling to feed and cure poverty rate, because it has been proven that Electric cars are even more costly than petrol cars. Many people will settle for the lessers price even in developed countries where the trend will be available.

What about electric SUVs ? There is a good number of such cars available on the market, which makes bad roads aint biggest problem of electric car adoption. Price isnt the bigger problem as well. Yes electric cars are more expensive than cars that runs on regular petrol, but we are now in electric cars trend. 5-10 years and we wont be surprised to see electric car in a tiny and forgotten village.

The main problems are short number of charging stations (that depends from the city and more stations can be installed with time) and charging time. Until developers dont figure out how to fully charge electric car with less than 5 min and make them run for +700km on a single tank, there wont be mass adoption. Current electric cars are for use in-city only. As soon as you want to travel or drive out of the city, we go back 30-50 years. To times when we have to plan our route, we are bond to using map. Yet we cant hop in and drive in any direction we want and as long as we want.

Huppercase

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Quote from: DrBeer on July 02, 2023, 04:59:27 AM

The correct answer is this:
- In highly developed countries, there is a high probability that there will be a dramatic reduction in the production and sales of PERSONAL vehicles powered by internal combustion engines. There are all the conditions for this - an acceptable income of the majority of the population to replace/buy hybrid/electric cars, a developed infrastructure for electric cars.
- In other countries, there will be a trend, but there will not be a quick transition. The reasons are exactly the opposite - insufficient income level of citizens, lagging behind the infrastructure of generation and delivery of electricity for cars of mass use.

There is more to why this adaptation of electronic cars will be difficult in less developed countries, it's not that some individuals don't have the money to purchase this vehicles to follow the trend but where to use it becomes a challenge due to bad roads. Most of these hybrid cars can only be use where there is good roads and source of electricity and the less developed countries are always having this problem of having 24/7 power supply, how will they use these cars, they don't have good infrastructure to begin with, I can't imagine cases of emergency and no source of power in the car, it will be a terrible thing to observed.

The dream of no petrol cars might be effective and soar in developed countries but I don't think so for third world countries that are struggling to feed and cure poverty rate, because it has been proven that Electric cars are even more costly than petrol cars. Many people will settle for the lessers price even in developed countries where the trend will be available.

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Quote from: adiksau0414 on July 02, 2023, 12:47:15 AM

Just wondering why there are some inventors already develop solar energy engine for cars yet they are not supported by big company? Is just because of benefit they gain from big oil companies? Also, there are also study that water can also used to makes car move, why not try to invest from it and it will make a lot of individual gain from rather than small number of big companies.

One of the reasons why solar cars are not supported by big companies is because they are unreliable at night and because panels are easy to break. Just imagine if someone throws a stone on it and one panel is damaged, and you can't get the full capacity of charging. Also, with the water, there is a lot of controversy because we know oil companies are big players, and if that water fuel car is implemented, then for sure a lot of those companies would be affected, even the countries, but again, for sure you've heard about what happened to those inventors on it.

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Quote from: Ozero on April 25, 2023, 08:35:42 AM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on April 24, 2023, 12:33:57 PM

In my point of view 2035 is not much far away from now, most probably this would be implement in rich countries it will be easier for them, but what about poor countries? are they capable of having charging station in each and every coroner? in city it is not much big deal but what about remote areas? that's why in my opinion view mechanism of cycle must be invented which suits for cars or we can make the machines from which ethanol and fuels like petroleum can generate electricity and we can use both electric as well as ethanol based vehicles, which can help the countries which are economically less constant and produce fuels (rude oil) as well as farmers, who produce sugarcane for ethanol

I think that the process of humanity's transition to electric cars may be even easier than some people think. Along the way, we will switch to the use of alternative energy sources and, above all, solar panels, which are becoming cheaper and more powerful, with an increase in efficiency. It is possible that then there will be no big problems with recharging electric cars. Therefore, I am quite optimistic about the desire of European countries to get rid of internal combustion engines. This should have been done much earlier.

Right now, what I'm noticing here in our country is that vehicles such as single motors that are Chinacharge-only E-bikes are called only the battery, no fuel is needed, and even if you don't have a license, they are gradually becoming known and promoted you can also use it, there are now the new ones that come out almost as fast as a gasoline motor but only charge it before charging for 8-12hrs.

If this continues to happen, then if I look at it, it will look better to use than the ordinary motor that I will spend fuel on when it is no longer. Then it is eco-friendly compared to gasoline which is not.

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

It will take a longer period of time to truly convince users that electric vehicles are more efficient than those with internal combustion engines. We are still in the kick-start phase, so it will require another 5 to 10 years to determine whether electric cars are more efficient than current automobiles.

Furthermore, the maintenance costs are currently high due to the limited availability of spare parts in this early adoption stage. Therefore, any form of damage is inevitably much costlier compared to traditional fuel-powered vehicles.

Society always tends to opt for transportation modes that are more cost-effective, both in terms of maintenance and daily consumption. They tend to disregard the environment's excessive exposure to CO2, as its impacts are not immediately felt.

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That might only happen in a few developed countries and in some developing countries. And most countries probably won't finish building infrastructure for electric cars and the like that don't require petrol or diesel fuel.

But in Indonesia, the construction of infrastructure for electric cars is currently being carried out quickly. the target this year there should be around 3,000 units of Public Electric Vehicle Charging Stations (SPKLU)¹. But still, this may not mean that in 2035 Indonesia will fully use electric vehicles for its citizens. because the territory of Indonesia is quite wide.

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Reference:
https://indonesia.go.id/kategori/editorial/6892/kolaborasi-pembangunan-infrastruktur-kendaraan-listrik?lang=1

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Quote from: Argoo on June 29, 2023, 11:31:01 AM

Quote from: slapper on April 25, 2023, 10:55:09 AM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on April 24, 2023, 12:33:57 PM

In my point of view 2035 is not much far away from now, most probably this would be implement in rich countries it will be easier for them, but what about poor countries? are they capable of having charging station in each and every coroner? in city it is not much big deal but what about remote areas? that's why in my opinion view mechanism of cycle must be invented which suits for cars or we can make the machines from which ethanol and fuels like petroleum can generate electricity and we can use both electric as well as ethanol based vehicles, which can help the countries which are economically less constant and produce fuels (rude oil) as well as farmers, who produce sugarcane for ethanol

I must object like an enigmatic plot twist. Conceiving a mechanism for automotive cycles isn't the solution we seek. Instead, the globe demands charging stations, transcending wealthy nation boundaries.

Easier for affluent countries? Indeed. But forsaking impoverished lands is unconscionable. United, we must unearth an answer that elevates all, irrespective of fiscal prowess.

Concurrently, investing in alternatives like ethanol and petroleum-derived fuels is commendable. However, electric vehicles cast an undeniable shadow on the horizon. Embrace the metamorphosis, and forge a sustainable legacy for humanity.

People are always selfish and talk a lot and inconsistently, even if they are on the verge of an abyss. Our climate is changing very dramatically due to the predatory attitude of man to nature. And we are still discussing whether it is worth correcting the situation or not, because not everyone is ready to change their habits. Humanity will never be ready for this. Here you need to act tough, otherwise the consequences can be catastrophic. In any case, gasoline engines must be abandoned, this problem has long been overripe.

This is a discussion that has been going on for quite a long time and is still going on, but humans will find it difficult to change if they are comfortable or happy with what they are getting now and continue to drain it until there is nothing left in the future.

DrBeer

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The correct answer is this:
- In highly developed countries, there is a high probability that there will be a dramatic reduction in the production and sales of PERSONAL vehicles powered by internal combustion engines. There are all the conditions for this - an acceptable income of the majority of the population to replace/buy hybrid/electric cars, a developed infrastructure for electric cars.
- In other countries, there will be a trend, but there will not be a quick transition. The reasons are exactly the opposite - insufficient income level of citizens, lagging behind the infrastructure of generation and delivery of electricity for cars of mass use.

erep

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Quote from: Vaskiy on June 30, 2023, 06:40:20 PM

When we talk about the abandoning of gasoline engines we should also discuss about the pollution caused while manufacturing batteries that are to be fitted with the electric cars and bikes. The pollution caused during the time of pollution is very high against what is being released by petrol and diesel engines. Most of the time it is the business that drives away the old things and introduce new products into the market. For the marketing there is need of something that needs to be pointed out and in such a way is the emission discussion with the EVs.

Actually electric cars are designed for use that are environmentally friendly or reduce pollution to the environment compared to oil and diesel fuel cars will have an impact on air pollution when the car is operating, the use of batteries that accommodate electrical energy is still under development so it requires several years of testing to use clean energy sources to environment. Electric cars are now operational, so we need detailed data to review the level of pollution they produce, but I'm sure that maybe in 2050 more people will use electric cars because the price of electric cars is relatively cheap and many people are already complaining that the price of fuel oil and diesel is getting higher.

However, sometimes oil and diesel fuel are increasingly scarce because they have been stockpiled by irresponsible individuals in the interest of obtaining higher profits when world oil prices increase.

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Just wondering why there are some inventors already develop solar energy engine for cars yet they are not supported by big company? Is just because of benefit they gain from big oil companies? Also, there are also study that water can also used to makes car move, why not try to invest from it and it will make a lot of individual gain from rather than small number of big companies.

STT

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Zero would be a dream, its not happening. Put it this way, peak coal was over a century ago and yet here we are still using it. To think we wont be heavily using oil 20 or 30 years from now is unrealistic. But also its possible to vastly reduce the usage and so the fumes emission in main cities, that would make sense to reduce drastically as we have been moving towards for decades.

Topic: No petrol/diesel car sales by 2035/ Reality or dream? - page 17. (Read 3573 times)