No petrol/diesel car sales by 2035/ Reality or dream? - page 24.

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Quote from: White pawn on February 17, 2023, 05:42:28 PM

Quote from: Woodie on February 17, 2023, 01:25:21 PM

Quote from: White pawn on February 17, 2023, 12:18:54 PM

2035 is not too far away. It’s 12 years away. I don’t think the EU could totally eliminate petrol and diesel fueled vehicles in that amount of time.

I thought this isn't enough time for car manufacturers to sell all vehicles they have in inventory and also allow their research departments to find ways to build these electric cars cost effectively while making a profit...well only time will tell if this deadline can be met.

It definitely isn’t enough time for car manufacturers to sell all their petrol and diesel fueled cars they’ve got in inventory. They’ve probably gotten teams already put together way back to research effective ways in which they could easily transition to electric driven vehicles. They would have done so purely for business purposes.
No doubt, the world is slowly moving away from its dependence on oil. It would take quite a while cause we’ve been so reliant on oil. It sure would not take 12 years.

Although currently there are many promotions for electric cars but only for advanced urban areas, recharging is not available in other areas. So planning for a worldwide deployment of car chargers will take a very long time. I take for example the 5G network example, even though the network card and cellphone support the 5G network, but not all regions have updated the network on the tower.

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Many governments are moving to push hard to reduce sales of diesel and petrol cars, the European Parliament has officially approved a law banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the EU from 2035

Quote

The landmark law will require carmakers to cut down CO2 emissions by 100 percent.
The 100 percent cut in CO2 emissions from new cars sold would make it impossible to sell petrol or diesel-powered cars in the 27-country bloc. The law that comes into effect in phases that will require a 55 percent cut in CO2 emissions for new cars starting 2030, which is a much higher target in comparison to the current 37.5 percent.

Source ---> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/auto/electric-cars/no-petrol/diesel-car-sales-by-2035-european-parliament-approves-ban/articleshow/97939363.cms

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

This news is a better-sweet one for my country. It is a bitter one because majority of our income comes from selling crude oil. The ban of electric cars might lead to less consumption of crude oil which will negatively affect our economy.
It is a good one because petrol and diesel powered engines are really destroying our environment because of it's waste emission. So may people have been diagnosed of respiratory problems because of this environmental pollution. This news is also a wake-up call to our government to start making moves to diversify our economy.

It might not be possible for the entire European bloc to achieve this aim in 2035 because thier economy and technology are not in the same level. Some might achieve this feat while others might phaseout diesel and petrol powered cars later.

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Quote from: Woodie on February 17, 2023, 01:25:21 PM

Quote from: White pawn on February 17, 2023, 12:18:54 PM

2035 is not too far away. It’s 12 years away. I don’t think the EU could totally eliminate petrol and diesel fueled vehicles in that amount of time.

I thought this isn't enough time for car manufacturers to sell all vehicles they have in inventory and also allow their research departments to find ways to build these electric cars cost effectively while making a profit...well only time will tell if this deadline can be met.

It definitely isn’t enough time for car manufacturers to sell all their petrol and diesel fueled cars they’ve got in inventory. They’ve probably gotten teams already put together way back to research effective ways in which they could easily transition to electric driven vehicles. They would have done so purely for business purposes.
No doubt, the world is slowly moving away from its dependence on oil. It would take quite a while cause we’ve been so reliant on oil. It sure would not take 12 years.

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on February 17, 2023, 04:49:53 PM

Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

Personally, I am expecting the price of electric vehicles to come down drastically as soon as demand increases, i believe that the reason why the prices are still on the high side is because -
1. There is no much demand for EVs around the world yet, and as such, only a very few of them are being produced based on demand, this is why they are currently very expensive.
2. Due to low demand, it is currently just a few companies that are making EVs, and because of this, there is currently no market competition for electric vehicles yet, the value of EVs will greatly decrease as soon as the demand rises and more car manufacturing companies move into manufacturing EVs, price will decrease because of EV companies competing amongst themselves to be the market leader of most EVs sold.

And yes, I agree that a complete electric vehicle society is very possible and achievable by 2035.

Trying to compare out the prices then it isnt really that justifiable i would say which it is really that too much expensive on buying those EV's without even considering into those expensive maintenance in the future specially about its battery packs.

We arent that dumb not to consider out on how these vehicles would be asking on a particular period which means it would be adding up the cost and expenses which it wont really be that cheap.
I agree on some points above that the performance wouldnt really be the same when we do speak about those petrol powered engines than into electrical ones.

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

Statistically, it is known global production of EVs would be required to significantly ramp up for 2035 deadlines to be met.

Copper production would need to increase multiple times over, to meet copper wire demand for EVs. Credit and liquidity could be required to fund the expansion. A healthy consumer market would be needed to purchase the EV's and keep automakers solvent during the vulnerable transition from gasoline combustion vehicles to electric or hybrid. There are a number of dominos that would need to fall into place for a transition from fossil fuel to electric vehicles being possible.

Tesla has planned for many years to built a discount EV priced @ $25,000. Their entry level vehicle could be constructed using tesla's new 4096 tabless batteries. The logistics and price point of the vehicle have been in the works since before COVID and could be exactly what EVs need to hit mainstream markets.

China also has its own range of EVs, some of which are selling in the USA at prices as low as $2,000. There are some analysts who claim china is positioned to takeover the EV market. Although it remains to be seen if they will pan out.

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Quote from: dothebeats on February 17, 2023, 01:56:16 PM

I doubt petrol/diesel cars will be phased out by then. Petro states will surely be against this big time and they will not allow this to happen at all costs. There probably would be a large cut on the number of ICE cars that will be produced but they will never be removed from the markets until the oil from these petro states are completely depleted and there's no more oil to be had. Perhaps a lot of countries will opt to a lot of hybrids in the coming years instead of fully abandoning petrol cars, and that is the safer option IMO.

They wont really be allowing it to happen and if EV would really be pushed through but still there would be those hybrids which do really still remain those combustion engine.Whether we do like it or not
i would really that still preferred on having those petrol/diesel cars compared to those electrified ones if we do speak about torque which is something that incomparable
if we do speak into it.Im not saying that EV's are shit but they are really that not just enough on patching up petrol cars all the way.Yes it does help out the environment but
there are really things which arent meant to be solely be focused on.

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

Personally, I am expecting the price of electric vehicles to come down drastically as soon as demand increases, i believe that the reason why the prices are still on the high side is because -
1. There is no much demand for EVs around the world yet, and as such, only a very few of them are being produced based on demand, this is why they are currently very expensive.
2. Due to low demand, it is currently just a few companies that are making EVs, and because of this, there is currently no market competition for electric vehicles yet, the value of EVs will greatly decrease as soon as the demand rises and more car manufacturing companies move into manufacturing EVs, price will decrease because of EV companies competing amongst themselves to be the market leader of most EVs sold.

And yes, I agree that a complete electric vehicle society is very possible and achievable by 2035.

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

The energy crisis that Europe is going through since entering into an indirect confrontation with Russia has made it think of alternatives that do not make Europe dependent on any party.
If we talk about the European Union only, and if we take into account the number of companies working in the field of hydraulic cars, it is difficult to eliminate this industry within 12 years only because the European market is one of the largest consumers of this type of car.
At the same time, what are the proposed alternatives to diesel cars. Electric cars may offer an alternative, but this industry also has its problems (mainly batteries), and I do not think that the global production of electric cars will be able to meet the needs of the market.

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Quote from: TimeTeller on February 17, 2023, 04:28:25 PM

Quote from: avikz on February 17, 2023, 02:14:04 PM

Can be a reality in smaller countries like many EU countries but not at all practical for the bigger countries like Russia, China, US, India, Australia etc. Also the price of an EV is a big turndown. 40% of the cost goes to just it's battery.

I quite often go for a long drive. I do at least one long drive every month. Now if I want to use EV, every single time I will have to halt for at least an hour just to recharge the car.

So the target of 2035 looks quite ambitious to me. Unless a technological breakthrough is achieved like fast charging or extraordinary range, EV will remain impractical for bigger countries.

That's one obstacle of EVs, not for long driving if the place has no charging stations yet.
The target may be true to some European countries, but I believe the rest of the world may still be having these petrol/diesel cars at that time.
This aim can easily be implemented in small developed countries like Singapore, but most of the third world countries can't afford this yet.
I just hope that by the year 2035, EVs are more affordable in price, as this is one of the bottlenecks why most people won't let go of the traditional cars.

The price of electric cars will go down as more people begin to buy them and manufacturers can afford to sell their cars for a lower price as they obtain profits due to the volume they manage, however it is difficult to see those cars ever being as cheap as conventional cars, so I doubt we will see much adoption of electric cars on the countries which are still developing their economies, also the average individual is not doing so well and it is possible that in the future they may decide to use the public transportation instead of buying an electric car as this becomes a luxury outside of what your average family can afford.

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Quote from: avikz on February 17, 2023, 02:14:04 PM

Can be a reality in smaller countries like many EU countries but not at all practical for the bigger countries like Russia, China, US, India, Australia etc. Also the price of an EV is a big turndown. 40% of the cost goes to just it's battery.

I quite often go for a long drive. I do at least one long drive every month. Now if I want to use EV, every single time I will have to halt for at least an hour just to recharge the car.

So the target of 2035 looks quite ambitious to me. Unless a technological breakthrough is achieved like fast charging or extraordinary range, EV will remain impractical for bigger countries.

That's one obstacle of EVs, not for long driving if the place has no charging stations yet.
The target may be true to some European countries, but I believe the rest of the world may still be having these petrol/diesel cars at that time.
This aim can easily be implemented in small developed countries like Singapore, but most of the third world countries can't afford this yet.
I just hope that by the year 2035, EVs are more affordable in price, as this is one of the bottlenecks why most people won't let go of the traditional cars.

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Quote from: avikz on February 17, 2023, 02:14:04 PM

Can be a reality in smaller countries like many EU countries but not at all practical for the bigger countries like Russia, China, US, India, Australia etc. Also the price of an EV is a big turndown. 40% of the cost goes to just it's battery.

I quite often go for a long drive. I do at least one long drive every month. Now if I want to use EV, every single time I will have to halt for at least an hour just to recharge the car.

So the target of 2035 looks quite ambitious to me. Unless a technological breakthrough is achieved like fast charging or extraordinary range, EV will remain impractical for bigger countries.

I have used LG smartphones before. They were great smartphones (great design, great screen, light weight, great cameras).

However, their battery life left a lot to be desired. Also, these smartphones very slowly charged the battery from charging.

However, now I use smartphones from the Chinese company Xiaomi and see great progress in the field of batteries and fast charging technology. Batteries easily hold a charge for two days, and charge in 40 minutes. This indicates that technological progress is developing very quickly.

Returning to LG smartphones - despite the weak battery, they had a very useful feature - a removable battery. Electric vehicles may also have a removable battery that can be quickly replaced while driving.

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Can be a reality in smaller countries like many EU countries but not at all practical for the bigger countries like Russia, China, US, India, Australia etc. Also the price of an EV is a big turndown. 40% of the cost goes to just it's battery.

I quite often go for a long drive. I do at least one long drive every month. Now if I want to use EV, every single time I will have to halt for at least an hour just to recharge the car.

So the target of 2035 looks quite ambitious to me. Unless a technological breakthrough is achieved like fast charging or extraordinary range, EV will remain impractical for bigger countries.

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I doubt petrol/diesel cars will be phased out by then. Petro states will surely be against this big time and they will not allow this to happen at all costs. There probably would be a large cut on the number of ICE cars that will be produced but they will never be removed from the markets until the oil from these petro states are completely depleted and there's no more oil to be had. Perhaps a lot of countries will opt to a lot of hybrids in the coming years instead of fully abandoning petrol cars, and that is the safer option IMO.

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Many governments are moving to push hard to reduce sales of diesel and petrol cars, the European Parliament has officially approved a law banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the EU from 2035

Quote

The landmark law will require carmakers to cut down CO2 emissions by 100 percent.
The 100 percent cut in CO2 emissions from new cars sold would make it impossible to sell petrol or diesel-powered cars in the 27-country bloc. The law that comes into effect in phases that will require a 55 percent cut in CO2 emissions for new cars starting 2030, which is a much higher target in comparison to the current 37.5 percent.

Source ---> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/auto/electric-cars/no-petrol/diesel-car-sales-by-2035-european-parliament-approves-ban/articleshow/97939363.cms

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

It can definitely be a reality especially for the Europe it can be a reality much sooner than the rest of the world. Reason is Europe is already ahead in this race than others and most the electricity produced in the country also comes from non conventional and non polluting renewable sources only which makes sense for them to implement e vehicles. 15 years down the dream can definitely be a reality. But for overall airpollution and CO2 levels i am not so sure how much of it comes from Vehicles only.

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

It's nothing more than theatrics. There isn't an electrical grid that exists today that could take all petrol powered vehicles and support them if they required electrical charging stations. The grid would not be able to handle that volume.

If would take many more decades for the infrastructure to be build and for EV/battery technology to be perfected to actually be more efficient than traditional vehicles. Keep in mind, the batteries need raw metals to be manufactured, and it requires energy to extract these metals through mining operations. The calculus of EV's does not merely exist within the confines of a charging station. There's a lot more that's involved.

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Electrical cars comes with its advantages most importantly it will make the environment more conducive for breathing since it won’t emit any harmful gases.
IT’s adoption will be drive by the government. For example in Africa the cost of purchasing Electrical cars might be too expensive except maybe the government provide incentives to purchase it. The biggest challenge for a continent like Africa in moving away from fossil fuel cars is electricity. Electricity has always been an issue which does comes cheap. For instance to a charge a Tesla car cost up to 4,000 Nigeria naira which is equivalent to the 13% of the country’s minimum wage.

Another challenge is will countries that produce oil and gas not be greatly affected by it mass adoption?

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For an automobile cutting down carbon emissions by 100 percent is not possible, best if they said cutting down Co2 we shall buy this!

Btw there are other components of electric cars that will always emit this element talk about tires these will always have a carbon footprint , besides an increase in electric vehicles on the road means more pressure on electricity generation which means fossil fuels will still be burnt to try and produce more of this, but for the sake of the next generation...we have to support the cause as doing nothing we cause more damage and its best to try with something one step at a time till will get to the zero emissions Roll Eyes

Quote from: White pawn on February 17, 2023, 12:18:54 PM

2035 is not too far away. It’s 12 years away. I don’t think the EU could totally eliminate petrol and diesel fueled vehicles in that amount of time.

I thought this isn't enough time for car manufacturers to sell all vehicles they have in inventory and also allow their research departments to find ways to build these electric cars cost effectively while making a profit...well only time will tell if this deadline can be met.

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Many governments are moving to push hard to reduce sales of diesel and petrol cars, the European Parliament has officially approved a law banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the EU from 2035

Quote

The landmark law will require carmakers to cut down CO2 emissions by 100 percent.
The 100 percent cut in CO2 emissions from new cars sold would make it impossible to sell petrol or diesel-powered cars in the 27-country bloc. The law that comes into effect in phases that will require a 55 percent cut in CO2 emissions for new cars starting 2030, which is a much higher target in comparison to the current 37.5 percent.

Source ---> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/auto/electric-cars/no-petrol/diesel-car-sales-by-2035-european-parliament-approves-ban/articleshow/97939363.cms

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

It would definitely be a dream for all, but frankly it is only possible for the very richest countries at the moment and the more developing countries will slowly get more of this technology after it becomes cheaper later on. One thing that I hope the politicians and policy makers are taking into consideration is how much pollution is produced from things like the rare metals that batteries contain and that should definitely be factored into the pollution & ecological calculations. If in switching from oil to precious materials we end up releasing poison in a different form, it's a shallow way to act. In the long run electric vehicles should be much better for air quality in many ways, but maybe the next step is re-inventing the wheel - rubber leaves a big mess of it's own.

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Quote from: Smartprofit on February 17, 2023, 07:06:19 AM

As a child, I loved to read Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.
The hero of this novel is the legendary captain Nemo (aka the Indian prince Dakkar). Captain Nemo built a submarine called the Nautilus. She was completely powered by electricity! All Captain Nemo's underwater equipment also worked exclusively on electricity - guns with electric bullets (with which he killed all the pirates), diving suits, etc.

You missed the part about producing the electricity in the first place, which kind of ironic in this context, was done with coal:

Quote from: Lucius on February 17, 2023, 10:43:49 AM

I also think that the big oil producers will not just accept that their black gold becomes less valuable with the potential to become completely worthless in the future.

Some of them will just move to other ventures, as Aramco is already doing it, Shell has 90 000 charging stations already and plans 500 000, the world has learned how dangerous is to rely on energy imports and everyone wants it produced locally, and the ones that thought they could blackmail the world with it are in for one hell of a surprise.
If somehow the EU manages to finally silence the hardcore eco groups, those that oppose everything, and go ahead with PSH systems to balance the grid, it can drive the prices of operating a EV car so much it won't matter to the initial difference in cost anymore. Plus, there is always the hydrogen fuel cell car, one that Wink

Musk doesn't like!

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2035 is not too far away. It’s 12 years away. I don’t think the EU could totally eliminate petrol and diesel fueled vehicles in that amount of time. The world with the EU in it has been far too reliant on petrol and diesel fuel vehicles for too long. From comments I’ve read on various places, I think there are still people that prefer petrol fueled cars and don’t like the idea of having electric vehicles for whatever reasons.

From the article, I understood that the production of petrol and diesel used vehicles would stop by 2035. Also the law would be in phases. Perhaps that could be exploited by oil giants to stall the full implementation of the law. But surely, people would still be buying and using petrol fueled cars far beyond the year 2035.

Topic: No petrol/diesel car sales by 2035/ Reality or dream? - page 24. (Read 3566 times)