Topic: [NR 1] Triplemining.com <> BIG jackpot every week <> - page 17. (Read 113696 times)

Jackpot is filling up again When will it fall ?

150 GH/s!  Doing good!

We're doing very good lately.... So many blocks... Hop onboard!

As some of you have noticed, I've changed the accounts page by the 2 pages: the transaction page now lists all detailed records of profits and payouts on our site.

maintenance is over... everything up and running...

Triplemining website and eu2.triplemining.com will be down tomorrow around 11 GMT

Maintenance will be done on the servers.  During this downtime the pool WILL REMAIN AVAILABLE as eu1.triplemining.com will remain online.  
Servers will be back online after 1-2 hours.

Yeah, I'm waiting too... But we can't influence luck :/

it definately jumped up my share since its been implemented. now if only we could find a block...

Yes.  All PPLNS implementations do this.

So it'll be a proportional payout then, but just over the last 24 hours of shares?

number of shares submitted by you last 24h divided by number of shares submitted by everyone in the pool last 24h multiplied by 50.  Both numbers are visible on the accounts page

Hey kinlo,

I can't find this anywhere (so I'm probably not looking hard enough), but under PPLNH|H=24, what will you be paying per share for the previous 24 hour worth of shares?

So; on a lighter note: what do you guys think about the new payments history page?

You are correct that you cannot just see problems by looking at the pool alone.   But by "monitoring the pool" I understand a lot more then just looking at logs or statistics.  I mean monitoring the community and how they formulate ideas on how hopping can be done and abused on our payment system.

Running simulations is also a good idea, I'll try to make some time for that next week to see if I missed anything in my initial analysis.  But again, since I don't see any evidence of being hoppable, I'll stick to the current setup for now

How will you know the pool is being hopped if you don't know how miners are trying maximise their share value? Just look for unusually lucky miners? I think you need to look for a results from first principals or from a good simulation. Otherwise you're in the dark.

You are correct that someone has to pay the bill for poolhopping, and I agree that loyal miners should not be the victim of the abuse.   PPS and DGM are great payout systems, however, they are not the only ones that are hop-proof.  The difference between the systems is in variance and the way the payout system handles the pool's luck.  I've chosen this system to allow luck to increase the payouts for the miners. But this does not make this system any less valid or worse.  It's just a decision, do you wish to always get the same payout, or do you wish to get some part of the luck/bad luck a pool has?  Regardless of which decision you take, these systems are fair.

I still have not yet seen that the system we are using is actually hoppable.  Therefore I will closely monitor the pool, and if I see anyone successfully perform poolhopping, I will change the payout system.  I will also change when someone can show me a mathematically proven model. However, unless I've missed something, most people only say that the variance is not stable.   This is correct, but a feature, loyal users will benefit from this...

the "normal" PPLNS you are talking about is a bit more complex then the PPLNS most implement.   Do you know any pool that implements PPLNS correctly so no differencechanges can be hopped?   But still nevertheless, the difficultychanges are only limited...


Variance does change with hashrate in PPLNS, if N is small enough.   The only thing that is true is that people not loyal to the pool will not get any money if they poolhop due to the fact that the rounds are often > 24h, but this is also true for about 50% of PPLNS, N=1/2D.   So yes, in the end, non-loyal users are punished the most, poolhoppers will not get any pay when the round is >24h.  But those loyal, which are the miners that mine every day, will make up for that later on.

So basically what you are saying is that the variance is higher then for example a PPS.  This is true.  This is true for all PPLNS systems.  But loyal users - users that mine every day, will not notice, as they meet the requirement to always be inside the payment window.  And this is also fair.  This pool gives you some variance on the pools luck.  with PPS you don't have any variance, with PPLNS systems you will earn more if the pool is lucky.  This is not a disadvantage... If the pools lucky, you get your share.

I still fail to see any reason why this system would be cheat-able (getting - statistically proven - more earnings by hopping the pool) except for the difficulty hopping - which I still haven't seen that it is just more then a theoretical remark that is practically useless.

I really appreciate everybody's thoughts about this, and I welcome all feedback.  If someone can point out any way to hop the pool, in a way that can be both statistically proven and relevant (the variance of the pool due to the PPLNS nature will be greater at this moment then the possible rewards you can get from difficulty hopping, so this is irrelevant as it is practically unfeasible), I will change the payout system again, so the pool cannot be cheated.

Just my 2cents:

Someone has to pay the bill for pool hopping, to bad those people will be your loyal miner.
Don't put them into a disadvantage again moving your system from a hoppable to another (maybe less) hoppable method.
PPS and DGM will be the future. I think DGM would be perfect for TripleMining, you just have to adjust the parameter to your needs.

Maybe you wanna sleep a night over your decision.

No, not every system is hoppable. Normal PPLNS isn't if you do it right. It's just time based PPLNH is.
What's hard about vanilla PPLNS?  

Maybe showing how your miners will be negatively affected by PPLNH *without* pool hoppers it might make more sense for you.

PPLNH is a drawback for your miners if the pool hashrate drops. Think about it. Your non-poolhopper hashrate is about 30Ghps. On average that would be a block solved every two days, so already your PPLNH|H=24 is equivalent to PPLNS|N=1/2. If your hashrate drops to 20, PPLNH|H=24 is equivalents to PPLNS|N=1/3.  A week? PPLNS|N=1/7.

This is a huge increase in variance for your miners. Variance doesn't change with hashrate under PPLNS. As your miners see their variance increase, they'll leave since the whole reason to be in a pool is to decrease variance away from solo mining variance, not tend toward it.

And if you're thinking about varying H if the hashrate reduces, then you're halfway to PPLNS anyway.

Edit: and if you want a low variance method that doesn't mean keeping track of 24 hours worth of miner submission history, try the double geometric payout method. It's not as scary as it looks on first blush, it's being used at a few other pools already, and your miners get reduced payout variance.

There will always be poolhopping, every system has it's drawbacks.  But unless someone points out that there is more then a few percents more profit you can make due to the payment system chosen, I don't think neither me, nor most people will loose any sleep over it.  In the end there are other considerations such as transparency and ease of use which have to be considered too.  Proportional is indeed a big problem, as there was much more to gain from it, so that's why we needed to change....