PH banned online cockfighting - Worst gambling-related cases recorded! - page 8.

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Quote from: blockman on May 23, 2022, 03:47:56 PM

Quote from: Naficopa on May 23, 2022, 08:13:53 AM

This is an old game and mostly related to domestic stuff. The animal they groom is their whole asset. And they take care of them more their own health - because the cock is the one which brings food to the table. However bans are not going to have much effect on the game.

There is livelihood really on this, I have a cousin who once became a breeder and not betting into cockfighting but knows how to groom well and put into condition the rooster that he's about to sell.
It's actually a lucrative business even until now because there go the physical arenas where people are really going just to bet. And in relation of the ban for online cockfighting, there were kidnappings that has happened because they're cheating and putting on the arena with a total weak condition cock.

That kidnapping incident is the reason why Online Cockfighting is banned today, they are so greedy and even if killing people will become normal for them just for the sake of profit. Yes, there are a lot of breeders and they can still operate since traditional cock fighting are still legal its just that many already called out about this inhumane activities, the government didn’t say anything about this though.

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Quote from: Naficopa on May 23, 2022, 08:13:53 AM

This is an old game and mostly related to domestic stuff. The animal they groom is their whole asset. And they take care of them more their own health - because the cock is the one which brings food to the table. However bans are not going to have much effect on the game.

There is livelihood really on this, I have a cousin who once became a breeder and not betting into cockfighting but knows how to groom well and put into condition the rooster that he's about to sell.
It's actually a lucrative business even until now because there go the physical arenas where people are really going just to bet. And in relation of the ban for online cockfighting, there were kidnappings that has happened because they're cheating and putting on the arena with a total weak condition cock.

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Quote from: OgNasty on May 22, 2022, 12:38:48 PM

I had no idea that online cockfighting was a thing, but it makes sense. I'm sure as technologies like cryptocurrency become more widespread and more people become comfortable setting up platforms on the onion routing network, things like this will become more common. It seems like only a matter of time before some sort of darknet gameshow like something out of a horror film becomes a reality. I'm sure such a thing probably already exists, but certainly isn't mainstream...yet.

Online cockfighting in the Philippines has become the trend since the pandemic has started and so its easier for the people to gamble even at the expense of their homes, but i don't know yet in other countries if cockfighting are also operated online. However, despite of the current ban, cockfighting is still visible in the Philippines in different coliseums, as it can be hardly ban totally as it has been here already in the ancient stage. So its either people will love it or avoid it, but it won't be easily ban.

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Quote from: Smartprofit on May 23, 2022, 03:52:22 AM

Any government should support the desire of households to improve their financial well-being. At the same time, the government should not allow conflict and chaos due to the addiction of its citizens to gambling.

The government of the country should also take care of the moral character of its citizens. Violent and bloody sports should not be encouraged. Here it is necessary to maintain a balance between the interests of different segments of the population.

Those are good points you brought up, and the role of government and the things it should and shouldn't do is (and always has been) a very complex discussion.

However, one point you didn't bring up is cruelty to animals, which many governments have laws against. If you ask me, cockfighting is animal abuse, though I'm sure there are a lot of members who'd disagree. They're just chickens, right? And I'm by no means a PETA activist, but I consider modern chicken farming to be a form of abuse as well (like packing them together with no room to move, pumping steroids in them such that they gain so much weight that they can't move, etc.).

But hey, that's just me. The government of my country doesn't seem to mind how chickens are farmed, although they regulate it. They do have laws against cockfighting. Not always consistent with their actions or their philosophy, are they?

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Quote from: Smartvirus on May 23, 2022, 07:00:56 AM

Sometimes, we don't have these addicts to blame nor the providers of these services. I mean, dey are already addicted and only a therapy of some sort could be some means to putting a stop on addiction. Hence, a sudden hold or stop on a practice don't seem to add up or wo t work without an alternative to it being put in place. It might work for those who just go ahead with gambling just for the sake of it, seeing it as a thing for the moment but, when your addicted, it's it's whole different story. When you have the cravings to gamble and you see it for a means to save your life or make a huge income, no ban can stop you at that point. Hence, the companies capable of providing such gambling services within a ban locality seems to make even more money.
An alternative should be provided and that would help to ease the ban!

This is an old game and mostly related to domestic stuff. The animal they groom is their whole asset. And they take care of them more their own health - because the cock is the one which brings food to the table. However bans are not going to have much effect on the game.

Smartvirus

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Quote from: Fredomago on May 23, 2022, 05:41:56 AM

Quote from: stadus on May 23, 2022, 03:59:14 AM

This kind of game only makes the rich(operator) richer, while the poor (gamblers) poorer.

Nothing to oppose but the reality that we will continue to see while this kind of business continues to operate, even the online ban has been implemented, the operation from the actual cockfight still kicking. Many of those who got addicted will find ways to bet and try some luck if they will win or they will continue to lose their money.

Sometimes, we don't have these addicts to blame nor the providers of these services. I mean, dey are already addicted and only a therapy of some sort could be some means to putting a stop on addiction. Hence, a sudden hold or stop on a practice don't seem to add up or wo t work without an alternative to it being put in place. It might work for those who just go ahead with gambling just for the sake of it, seeing it as a thing for the moment but, when your addicted, it's it's whole different story. When you have the cravings to gamble and you see it for a means to save your life or make a huge income, no ban can stop you at that point. Hence, the companies capable of providing such gambling services within a ban locality seems to make even more money.
An alternative should be provided and that would help to ease the ban!

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Quote from: stadus on May 23, 2022, 03:59:14 AM

This kind of game only makes the rich(operator) richer, while the poor (gamblers) poorer.

Nothing to oppose but the reality that we will continue to see while this kind of business continues to operate, even the online ban has been implemented, the operation from the actual cockfight still kicking. Many of those who got addicted will find ways to bet and try some luck if they will win or they will continue to lose their money.

Making those operators to continue collecting more money from people who love to use this venue for their gambling satisfactions..

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Quote from: Smartprofit on May 23, 2022, 03:52:22 AM

Quote from: stadus on May 23, 2022, 01:42:04 AM

Quote from: Smartprofit on May 23, 2022, 01:17:41 AM

Filipino farmers face big losses if these bans are enforced.

Are you kidding me, as if raising a breed would help a lot of farmers, besides, they are not farmers, we called them breeders and this does not help to the supply and demand of the people because it's use for cockfighting. I get your point, there are people who loss on the action of the government, but you have to understand that government decides for the benefit of majority, not to a certain group only.

As far as I understand, the cost of elite fighting cocks is very high. This is not a mass, but a piece product. Therefore, it is very profitable to breed and train such roosters.

This is a complex moral and ethical issue ...

Any government should support the desire of households to improve their financial well-being. At the same time, the government should not allow conflict and chaos due to the addiction of its citizens to gambling.

The government of the country should also take care of the moral character of its citizens. Violent and bloody sports should not be encouraged. Here it is necessary to maintain a balance between the interests of different segments of the population.

And you correctly noted that the interests of the majority of the country's population are a priority.

I understand, but my point is, it's not like it affects the job or the business of the poor and the economy of the country will never be affected if E-Sabong is ban, instead, it will affect the economy if they will continue as poor people keep losing their money and it will worsen the poverty problem.

This kind of game only makes the rich(operator) richer, while the poor (gamblers) poorer.

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Quote from: stadus on May 23, 2022, 01:42:04 AM

Quote from: Smartprofit on May 23, 2022, 01:17:41 AM

Filipino farmers face big losses if these bans are enforced.

Are you kidding me, as if raising a breed would help a lot of farmers, besides, they are not farmers, we called them breeders and this does not help to the supply and demand of the people because it's use for cockfighting. I get your point, there are people who loss on the action of the government, but you have to understand that government decides for the benefit of majority, not to a certain group only.

As far as I understand, the cost of elite fighting cocks is very high. This is not a mass, but a piece product. Therefore, it is very profitable to breed and train such roosters.

This is a complex moral and ethical issue ...

Any government should support the desire of households to improve their financial well-being. At the same time, the government should not allow conflict and chaos due to the addiction of its citizens to gambling.

The government of the country should also take care of the moral character of its citizens. Violent and bloody sports should not be encouraged. Here it is necessary to maintain a balance between the interests of different segments of the population.

And you correctly noted that the interests of the majority of the country's population are a priority.

stadus

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Quote from: Smartprofit on May 23, 2022, 01:17:41 AM

Filipino farmers face big losses if these bans are enforced.

Are you kidding me, as if raising a breed would help a lot of farmers, besides, they are not farmers, we called them breeders and this does not help to the supply and demand of the people because it's use for cockfighting. I get your point, there are people who loss on the action of the government, but you have to understand that government decides for the benefit of majority, not to a certain group only.

Smartprofit

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In fact, raising fighting cocks in the Philippines is a small business for Filipino farmers.

That is, Filipino peasants probably perceive cockfighting not as a game of chance, but as an opportunity to earn money. For example, during the Klondike gold rush, it was not the miners who made the most profit. The owners of drinking establishments and sawmills, sellers of flour, meat and eggs received the greatest profit.

The Philippine government's bans should probably not be seen as gambling bans, but as restrictions on small business in the Philippines. The breeding of fighting cocks has probably become a very important part of the Philippine poultry industry.

Filipino farmers face big losses if these bans are enforced.

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Quote from: Naficopa on May 22, 2022, 09:55:26 AM

On a lighter note - these gamblers are not very rich - here in our country the cock fighting happens in villages. Where poor gamblers get some extra buck from them. But than again these cocks are their assets and they spend so much money on them. But I think it is not good bez it against animal rights.

Because cockfighting is derived from traditional gambling games, it is very popular among small people and they use their pet chickens to gamble and earn money. This is why maybe not many rich people used to play cockfighting. The rich people thought cockfighting was a game for the lower middle class.

But along with public awareness about animal rights, I think gambling with animals has begun to be regulated and reduced by the existence of regulations from the government.

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Quote from: OgNasty on May 22, 2022, 12:38:48 PM

I had no idea that online cockfighting was a thing, but it makes sense. I'm sure as technologies like cryptocurrency become more widespread and more people become comfortable setting up platforms on the onion routing network, things like this will become more common. It seems like only a matter of time before some sort of darknet gameshow like something out of a horror film becomes a reality. I'm sure such a thing probably already exists, but certainly isn't mainstream...yet.

probably. when government makes it illegal, people are more inclined to try it like a cuban cigar.

yes cockfighting is a thing in Philippines. when you guys talks about whos your dog while watching a boxing match, we in the Philippines use the term " who's your manok" which means which rooster you're rooting. applies to elections too.

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Quote from: Yamifoud on May 21, 2022, 03:34:40 PM

Quote from: Botnake on May 21, 2022, 03:11:14 PM

....they are losing money while the operators are making a lot of profit on a daily basis.

the biggest operator of E-Sabong in the Philippines are making millions of money in a daily basis, so if we will try to analyze that, that's more than 100 millions pesos of bets going to that platform on a daily basis, and majority of that money are coming from the poor, so we really cannot blame the government of their action to ban it.

I think this is for the best, personally I do not like a government that bans something in an arbitrary manner because this will eventually lead people to do the same but on the black market, however there are activities that indeed deserve to be banned and cockfighting is one of them, it simply does not sit right with me that two animals are forced to fight just for people to get entertainment out of it, taking into account the many options we have now to entertain ourselves harmlessly I do not see the point of something like this.

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Quote from: Fredomago on May 22, 2022, 07:30:24 AM

Quote from: blockman on May 21, 2022, 04:40:23 PM

It's true, there are too many games that everyone can play, and not just with this online cockfight. But you know our culture, there has been a tradition and people got used to this gambling game. It doesn't matter if there are animals part of it and lives are being exchanged for it.
But it's the norm that has been formed for centuries and that's hard to remove, now, a ban has been said but this won't stop the culture and tradition. There will still be ways that these gamblers will look to bet in online cockfights especially if they're addicted to it.

No one can stop those addicted gamblers, even the ban already implemented. If there's still someone who will continue to the offer a same kind of gambling behind the government's back, those people will continue to play and lose their money. Sabong is a part of our tradition and with how the internet access more people easily, they penetrate deeper and now the government need to act to avoid more addicted and ruined families to suffer from losing more money.

And when the restrictions and borders are loosened, much worse is the arena cockpit could be back. Yeah, just like the physical casinos, they're likely to be back.
As the mandate says, the online cockfighting is banned because there are too many lives that are destroyed but with the actual arena fight, they're not banning it and they both the same in paying taxes and the same effect for those addicted gamblers.

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I had no idea that online cockfighting was a thing, but it makes sense. I'm sure as technologies like cryptocurrency become more widespread and more people become comfortable setting up platforms on the onion routing network, things like this will become more common. It seems like only a matter of time before some sort of darknet gameshow like something out of a horror film becomes a reality. I'm sure such a thing probably already exists, but certainly isn't mainstream...yet.

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Quote from: Fredomago on May 22, 2022, 07:30:24 AM

Quote from: blockman on May 21, 2022, 04:40:23 PM

Quote from: Quidat on May 21, 2022, 12:41:57 PM

I dont believe that there's lacking about games offered online on why they are really into cockfight betting but rather they do really just looking it for it to be interesting
because if we do speak of the current online games into casinos and the easy access then i dont see for it to be that lacking.
So its not surprising that government would really be taking some action.

It's true, there are too many games that everyone can play, and not just with this online cockfight. But you know our culture, there has been a tradition and people got used to this gambling game. It doesn't matter if there are animals part of it and lives are being exchanged for it.
But it's the norm that has been formed for centuries and that's hard to remove, now, a ban has been said but this won't stop the culture and tradition. There will still be ways that these gamblers will look to bet in online cockfights especially if they're addicted to it.

No one can stop those addicted gamblers, even the ban already implemented. If there's still someone who will continue to the offer a same kind of gambling behind the government's back, those people will continue to play and lose their money. Sabong is a part of our tradition and with how the internet access more people easily, they penetrate deeper and now the government need to act to avoid more addicted and ruined families to suffer from losing more money.

The very reason why the Philippine government banned E-Sabong is because the gamblers/participants are not rich, in fact, the majority of these gamblers are only poor or some average people who only got enough money to buy food and other needs for the family that's why it's really unfortunate if these certain gamblers get addicted as their family will be directly affected by the consequence if they lost.

Even up to now, I saw on the news that there are still hard-headed operators of E-sabong that are continuing their operations and the president is directing the NBI to catch this perpetrators.

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Quote from: Twentyonepaylots on May 22, 2022, 09:38:17 AM

When this could be true, that millions are coming from the pockets of the poor, we couldn't say that it is really the reason why the government decided to ban the E-Sabong. If the majority are producing millions of pesos per day, imagine how much money those who bred have put to their cockfighters to fight to the arena, called "Tupada" in filipino. I think what could be reason why E-Sabong is suspended is due to some issues with the players, just a month ago almost 30 people went missing and they are involve in E-Sabong, some are players but most of them are breeders. And also, cheating in E-Sabong is widely known the "fixed" games are still investigated, and they could not just ignore it since it is a multi-million gambling.

President Rodrigo Duterte stated that E-Sabong is producing PHP600,000,000 of tax per month, that's roughly around $12,000,000 a month. So the cause/s of suspension might not just because of the majority players are common people.

On a lighter note - these gamblers are not very rich - here in our country the cock fighting happens in villages. Where poor gamblers get some extra buck from them. But than again these cocks are their assets and they spend so much money on them. But I think it is not good bez it against animal rights.

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Quote from: Yamifoud on May 21, 2022, 03:34:40 PM

Quote from: Botnake on May 21, 2022, 03:11:14 PM

....they are losing money while the operators are making a lot of profit on a daily basis.

the biggest operator of E-Sabong in the Philippines are making millions of money in a daily basis, so if we will try to analyze that, that's more than 100 millions pesos of bets going to that platform on a daily basis, and majority of that money are coming from the poor, so we really cannot blame the government of their action to ban it.

When this could be true, that millions are coming from the pockets of the poor, we couldn't say that it is really the reason why the government decided to ban the E-Sabong. If the majority are producing millions of pesos per day, imagine how much money those who bred have put to their cockfighters to fight to the arena, called "Tupada" in filipino. I think what could be reason why E-Sabong is suspended is due to some issues with the players, just a month ago almost 30 people went missing and they are involve in E-Sabong, some are players but most of them are breeders. And also, cheating in E-Sabong is widely known the "fixed" games are still investigated, and they could not just ignore it since it is a multi-million gambling.

President Rodrigo Duterte stated that E-Sabong is producing PHP600,000,000 of tax per month, that's roughly around $12,000,000 a month. So the cause/s of suspension might not just because of the majority players are common people.

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Quote from: Fredomago on May 22, 2022, 07:30:24 AM

Quote from: blockman on May 21, 2022, 04:40:23 PM

Quote from: Quidat on May 21, 2022, 12:41:57 PM

I dont believe that there's lacking about games offered online on why they are really into cockfight betting but rather they do really just looking it for it to be interesting
because if we do speak of the current online games into casinos and the easy access then i dont see for it to be that lacking.
So its not surprising that government would really be taking some action.

It's true, there are too many games that everyone can play, and not just with this online cockfight. But you know our culture, there has been a tradition and people got used to this gambling game. It doesn't matter if there are animals part of it and lives are being exchanged for it.
But it's the norm that has been formed for centuries and that's hard to remove, now, a ban has been said but this won't stop the culture and tradition. There will still be ways that these gamblers will look to bet in online cockfights especially if they're addicted to it.

No one can stop those addicted gamblers, even the ban already implemented. If there's still someone who will continue to the offer a same kind of gambling behind the government's back, those people will continue to play and lose their money. Sabong is a part of our tradition and with how the internet access more people easily, they penetrate deeper and now the government need to act to avoid more addicted and ruined families to suffer from losing more money.

sabongeros will gamble when there is a platform even if its a duck vs rooster on the arena. they'd gladly bet still.

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