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Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 363. (Read 845654 times)

hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
December 24, 2014, 01:07:56 PM
You want us to read? What value is there in it for us?

You tell ME, how anyone can make judgment or discernment through NOT EXPERIENCING?

So, I am inaccurate when I call your truth foolishness. Rather, it is destructive heresy, and your "refutings" are utter, raving nonsense.

Because your god is the devil, his words are destructive heresy, and you are in league with his demons... all of you servants of the devil.

So you denounce because you "simply have priorities"?  Lips sealed

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
December 24, 2014, 01:05:51 PM
Hi BADecker, the purpose of the Journals is stated in the first few pages of each and every Journal.
About the author and the mission

And your writings not only tell you to NOT restate any points, but also that you may not even state that you are not supposed to restate point?
I deny ever reading that in the writings. Still, you should always go to the source. I suggest that you might endeavor to learn photoreading if you find the volume of writings overwhelming.

Why do I need to go to the source? You just told me this answer. Or are you calling yourself a liar, so that I need to go to the source to find out what you are lying about.


Quote

God wants Truth to spread, but I will not distribute this material on an ad-hoc basis.

I am happy to quote from Journals, but why do you need me to re-state something when all the knowledge is already on the web? Did you really need me to summarize the above quotation and make those two points? I think you could have deduced those points for yourself.

Why are you so fearful of stating in simple words just a couple of the basic things that you are all about? Sounds like you don't think very highly of the things that you promote. Or are you just ignorant?


Quote

Always it gets down to "responsibility". You can "offer" but more than that--you are efforting to "cause" through one form of coercion or another--your "opinions" upon another and manipulate that "other's" responsibility aspect. Remember Little Crow's rather "crude" but impressive statement?: "People are too lazy, wanting somebody to help them see the light. Get off your dead ass and look for the light yourself. Find the switch, turn it on..." You cannot do a thing FOR somebody else any more than you can have the right nor the capability to take on another's responsibility.

I would prefer not to argue or re-hash what is written. Like I said, you can deduce the points from the writings themselves since they are always clear, explicit, and literal.

Some people are lazy. Most people simply have priorities. They have to have priorities because there isn't time to do everything. Show us that there is value in the things that you advertise, or nobody will waste his time. Give us a few (2 or 3) basic points or benefits that your writings (or whatever they are) have, which are valuable enough for us that we should read them.

You want us to read? What value is there in it for us? In fact, what value is there in it for you? Is your family being held hostage, that if you don't answer something in these forums your family dies? Your stuff is from God because you say so? Give me a break. You don't know enough about your own stuff that you can even offer us a couple of points about it.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
December 24, 2014, 12:52:57 PM

Do you realize that Christ never said "I, Jesus, am the Son of God"?
That is because "Jesus" was never his name while he was alive.

I'm finally starting to understand your deceptions a little.

Jesus was never His name while He was alive, for the same reason that He never said "I, Jesus, am the Son of God." He didn't use modern English. Even in His travels to the British Isles, He never used modern English. Why not? Because it hadn't been invented yet back then.

Get off it, will you?

Smiley

His name was Immanuel, which means 'God is with us.'

So who gave him the name 'Jesus'?

If you were asking this question because you wanted to know the answer, I might answer you. However, since you seem to know all about it, you either know who gave Him the name Jesus, or you know that you could find out.

I'm not interested in playing that game with you.

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
December 24, 2014, 12:52:10 PM
I find the "books" (JOURNALS) are denounced without so much as holding a copy in hand, much less the reading of such documents. Perhaps it HAS TO BE THAT WAY, however, or the eyes and soul (if one is present) would see Truth?? (Huh)

I am continually amused at how many tell me to "go back to Christ!" How so--I TRAVEL WITH YOUR "CHRIST"!! AND, FURTHERMORE, IF ANYONE BOTHERED TO READ MY WRITINGS--IT CAN NOT BE REFUTED. So, WHO is the fool? Well, perhaps "me" for wasting your time with it for, after all, I have all the "time" in the Universe--and you are VERY LIMITED IN THAT COMMODITY. I would ask you, however, WHAT ELSE ARE YOU DOING THAT TAKES SO MUCH "TIME"?

Hey BADecker, here are the two points that you wanted, straight from the Journals! I may add some more, but these are pretty good; I will summarize the points above like so:

1. You denounced my truth, but did you read my truth?
2. You denounced my Christ, but do you know my Christ?

There you go.

Make believe points that are really questions to me rather than points about your beliefs.

Is that you don't know what you believe?

Smiley
Those points are easily revised like so:

1. You denounced my truth, but you did not read my truth. How ignorant is that?
2. You denounced my Christ, but you do not know my Christ. How ignorant is that?

I believe in TRUTH (opposite of ignorance).
Your beliefs are based on ignorance and denouncing your brother?
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
December 24, 2014, 12:44:48 PM
I find the "books" (JOURNALS) are denounced without so much as holding a copy in hand, much less the reading of such documents. Perhaps it HAS TO BE THAT WAY, however, or the eyes and soul (if one is present) would see Truth?? (Huh)

I am continually amused at how many tell me to "go back to Christ!" How so--I TRAVEL WITH YOUR "CHRIST"!! AND, FURTHERMORE, IF ANYONE BOTHERED TO READ MY WRITINGS--IT CAN NOT BE REFUTED. So, WHO is the fool? Well, perhaps "me" for wasting your time with it for, after all, I have all the "time" in the Universe--and you are VERY LIMITED IN THAT COMMODITY. I would ask you, however, WHAT ELSE ARE YOU DOING THAT TAKES SO MUCH "TIME"?

Hey BADecker, here are the two points that you wanted, straight from the Journals! I may add some more, but these are pretty good; I will summarize the points above like so:

1. You denounced my truth, but did you read my truth?
2. You denounced my Christ, but do you know my Christ?

There you go.

Make believe points that are really questions to me rather than points about your beliefs.

Is that you don't know what you believe?

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
December 24, 2014, 12:25:35 PM
Hi BADecker, the purpose of the Journals is stated in the first few pages of each and every Journal.
About the author and the mission

And your writings not only tell you to NOT restate any points, but also that you may not even state that you are not supposed to restate point?
I deny ever reading that in the writings. Still, you should always go to the source. I suggest that you might endeavor to learn photoreading if you find the volume of writings overwhelming.

God wants Truth to spread, but I will not distribute this material on an ad-hoc basis.

I am happy to quote from Journals, but why do you need me to re-state something when all the knowledge is already on the web? Did you really need me to summarize the above quotation and make those two points? I think you could have deduced those points for yourself.

Always it gets down to "responsibility". You can "offer" but more than that--you are efforting to "cause" through one form of coercion or another--your "opinions" upon another and manipulate that "other's" responsibility aspect. Remember Little Crow's rather "crude" but impressive statement?: "People are too lazy, wanting somebody to help them see the light. Get off your dead ass and look for the light yourself. Find the switch, turn it on..." You cannot do a thing FOR somebody else any more than you can have the right nor the capability to take on another's responsibility.

I would prefer not to argue or re-hash what is written. Like I said, you can deduce the points from the writings themselves since they are always clear, explicit, and literal.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
December 24, 2014, 12:08:24 PM

Do you realize that Christ never said "I, Jesus, am the Son of God"?
That is because "Jesus" was never his name while he was alive.

I'm finally starting to understand your deceptions a little.

Jesus was never His name while He was alive, for the same reason that He never said "I, Jesus, am the Son of God." He didn't use modern English. Even in His travels to the British Isles, He never used modern English. Why not? Because it hadn't been invented yet back then.

Get off it, will you?

Smiley

His name was Immanuel, which means 'God is with us.'

So who gave him the name 'Jesus'?
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
December 24, 2014, 12:07:24 PM
I find the "books" (JOURNALS) are denounced without so much as holding a copy in hand, much less the reading of such documents. Perhaps it HAS TO BE THAT WAY, however, or the eyes and soul (if one is present) would see Truth?? (Huh)

I am continually amused at how many tell me to "go back to Christ!" How so--I TRAVEL WITH YOUR "CHRIST"!! AND, FURTHERMORE, IF ANYONE BOTHERED TO READ MY WRITINGS--IT CAN NOT BE REFUTED. So, WHO is the fool? Well, perhaps "me" for wasting your time with it for, after all, I have all the "time" in the Universe--and you are VERY LIMITED IN THAT COMMODITY. I would ask you, however, WHAT ELSE ARE YOU DOING THAT TAKES SO MUCH "TIME"?

Hey BADecker, here are the two points that you wanted, straight from the Journals! I may add some more, but these are pretty good; I will summarize the points above like so:

1. You denounced my truth, but did you read my truth?
2. You denounced my Christ, but do you know my Christ?
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
December 24, 2014, 08:01:33 AM
@Blakjag:

I probably shouldn't do this but, can you give us at least a couple of the main points of your religion or books, or main reasons for their existence? I mean, like I have said in the past, the reasons for the Bible are basically, in simplistic form:
1. Salvation of souls for the afterlife;
2. Directions and instructions for living a better life here.

Regarding #1 above: It seems that all people die. There don't seem to be any coming forward and saying that they are 500-years-old. At least not with any evidence to back it up. I haven't even seen it. Salvation of souls for the afterlife has to do with saving people's personal identities - their souls - so that they can be reunited with their bodies in the resurrection of all people at the last day.

Regarding #2 above: The Bible gives instructions for living a good life here. It is filled with many examples of how God favors people who follow the instructions. It gives many examples of how God is against those people who don't follow the instructions, even though He patiently puts up with them, often for a long time. In addition, it shows how difficult it is to live a life that follows the instructions entirely.

Do you maybe have a couple points that you can list like that, regarding  your religious writings? Or if your writings have instructed you not to make points from their content, might you at least tell us that much? Or is that what you have been doing by not giving us any solid points? And your writings not only tell you to NOT restate any points, but also that you may not even state that you are not supposed to restate point?

If you have stated points already, please restate a couple of them is simlistic style like I have stated #1 and #2 above. Even LaudaM who is generally at odds with the things that I say, seems to want some simple points listed, in this quote:

Sum that up if you want to make a post, I'm not reading that much text for no real purpose.


Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
December 24, 2014, 03:13:48 AM
He never said "I, Jesus, am the Son of God." He didn't use modern English. Even in His travels to the British Isles, He never used modern English.

 has jesus travelled in british isles?? Huh Smiley
I didn't know this either, apparently he did. Although I'm pretty sure that they didn't travel to anywhere, but yeah you should believe the nonsense of what people have written down.   Roll Eyes

Quote
Joseph of Arimathea(the man who was later given Jesus’s body and laid it in the tomb) figures significantly in these traditions, of which there are at least four. Summarizing them, Joseph of Arimathea was a tin merchant who had mining interests in the Glastonbury region of England. He took the boy Jesus with him on at least one of his trips to the British Isles. They traveled by ship and arrived in southwestern England.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Crypto-ideologist
December 23, 2014, 09:34:30 PM
He never said "I, Jesus, am the Son of God." He didn't use modern English. Even in His travels to the British Isles, He never used modern English.

 has jesus travelled in british isles?? Huh Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
December 23, 2014, 09:06:28 PM

Do you realize that Christ never said "I, Jesus, am the Son of God"?
That is because "Jesus" was never his name while he was alive.

I'm finally starting to understand your deceptions a little.

Jesus was never His name while He was alive, for the same reason that He never said "I, Jesus, am the Son of God." He didn't use modern English. Even in His travels to the British Isles, He never used modern English. Why not? Because it hadn't been invented yet back then.

Get off it, will you?

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
December 23, 2014, 06:45:29 PM
The Bible and God, on the other hand, are not religion, simply because they are the most real of all realities.

The Bible is the most real? Then you should have no problem responding to this post:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9916356

Well, it was trouble. I had to log in to do it.

http://www.everystudent.com/features/bible.html

Smiley

None of those points relate to what I posted. To start with:

Are you going to explain what your source called "the known teachings of Jesus" and how such teachings are different from what I understand as "the teachings of Jesus", which you have called "heresy"?

Do you realize that Christ never said "I, Jesus, am the Son of God"?
That is because "Jesus" was never his name while he was alive.

You who tell me to "go back to Jesus Christ" had better take a long, hard look at the rest of that "book" in point.

If you know so little about us as to not read the books and STILL think you have valid INPUT to our work, whatever that might be--I suggest you think again--most carefully! We serve ONE master here--GOD! If your perception differs as to who that might be--then go find the ones who serve according to YOUR PERCEPTION AND BLESS US WITH YOUR ABSENCE, PLEASE.

I find the "books" (JOURNALS) are denounced without so much as holding a copy in hand, much less the reading of such documents. Perhaps it HAS TO BE THAT WAY, however, or the eyes and soul (if one is present) would see Truth?? (Huh)

If you hear or see an image of Clinton on the vidiot box or hear his voice on the airwaves or on a telephone line--do you accept or deny the possibility that IT IS Clinton? Then why is it so hard to accept that GOD and his MESSENGERS just MIGHT be allowed the same possibility?

By the way--the ones who deny ME are the ones who also tell you to not witness this material--"throw it out". You tell ME, how anyone can make judgment or discernment through NOT EXPERIENCING? PSYCHICS? OH I THINK NOT!

I am continually amused at how many tell me to "go back to Christ!" How so--I TRAVEL WITH YOUR "CHRIST"!! AND, FURTHERMORE, IF ANYONE BOTHERED TO READ MY WRITINGS--IT CAN NOT BE REFUTED. So, WHO is the fool? Well, perhaps "me" for wasting your time with it for, after all, I have all the "time" in the Universe--and you are VERY LIMITED IN THAT COMMODITY. I would ask you, however, WHAT ELSE ARE YOU DOING THAT TAKES SO MUCH "TIME"?
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
December 23, 2014, 03:40:35 PM
The Bible and God, on the other hand, are not religion, simply because they are the most real of all realities.

The Bible is the most real? Then you should have no problem responding to this post:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9916356

Well, it was trouble. I had to log in to do it.

http://www.everystudent.com/features/bible.html

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
December 23, 2014, 03:11:46 PM
The Bible and God, on the other hand, are not religion, simply because they are the most real of all realities.

The Bible is the most real? Then you should have no problem responding to this post:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9916356
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
December 23, 2014, 12:16:12 AM
The Old Testament portion of the Bible is complete bullshit. It's full of murder and hated commanded by "god".

We don't need religion, but, for the meantime and for most of the world, it works. It gives hope. Until the day another group or system comes up that can give people the hope and love they need, religion will always be there.

You are mistaken about the O.T., and about God.

We don't need religion. Yet we DO need an understanding of what religion is.

True religion is groupings of beliefs, often based on things that are perceived as truth.

The Bible and God, on the other hand, are not religion, simply because they are the most real of all realities.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
December 23, 2014, 12:11:39 AM
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING anyone can do to change the system or to fight God.

Uh, yeah there is. We stopped the practice of slavery and subjugating women that he commanded.

Yes. In areas of the world, man started such a thing as slavery, and then man stopped it. Slavery was not God's idea. He condoned it so that He could work with both, masters and slaves, so that He might save some for eternal life.

Slavery has been formally abolished by all the major nations of the world. Yet it is still practiced in many places. Much of Northwestern Africa condones it even though it is against their formal laws. Slavery is so imbedded in the slave classes of African people, that many groups of slaves have no idea what freedom means. You can't offer them freedom, because they don't understand what that means.

Slavery is of man, not God. God's plan is salvation in the afterlife, where all will be free.

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
December 22, 2014, 10:37:12 PM
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING anyone can do to change the system or to fight God.

Uh, yeah there is. We stopped the practice of slavery and subjugating women that he commanded.


True. The Old Testament portion of the Bible is complete bullshit. It's full of murder and hated commanded by "god".

We don't need religion, but, for the meantime and for most of the world, it works. It gives hope. Until the day another group or system comes up that can give people the hope and love they need, religion will always be there.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 22, 2014, 09:34:05 PM
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING anyone can do to change the system or to fight God.

Uh, yeah there is. We stopped the practice of slavery and subjugating women that he commanded.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
December 22, 2014, 07:42:08 PM
Faith doesn't need proof, and you cannot prove it since he is created in the minds of humans.
So it is the work of their imagination. I knew it.

If that were so for all varieties of "spiritual" experience then you would be able to use "the work of their imagination" to provide an answer to the Problem of Seth's Origin:
http://www.rivier.edu/faculty/pcunningham/Research/Problem_of_Seths_Origin.pdf

Presumably your explanation would fall under "hypnotic self-suggestion" and "high creativity", but these explanations do not adequately answer the Problem.
Sum that up if you want to make a post, I'm not reading that much text for no real purpose.


That is a published paper; you can read the abstract and conclusion.

The purpose is to show you a different perspective, and introduce you to substantial issues such as the Problem of Seth's Origin and related questions such as the "Content-Source Problem".

Do you have any links to video evidence of this Jane Roberts doing her thing? I did have a read through some of the paper, while it does claim some extraordinary things and makes some valid points, it doesn't seem to follow much of a scientific method. The fact that the majority of the material was transcribed by her husband instantly sets skeptical alarm bells off in my mind.
I am not familiar with this material; all I have is Cunningham's papers and a copy of The Nature of Personal Reality which I did not even finish; also, I note that Jane Roberts is mentioned in Phoenix Journal #2.

If you are alarmed by the possibility of fraud, I suggest a read of the Eisenbeiss case where fraud was determined to be highly unlikely.
http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/case24_soulmate.pdf

There is limited science because this paper is a phenomenological study.

[Phenomenology] is primarily a descriptive discipline and is undertaken in a way that is largely independent of scientific, including causal, explanations and accounts of the nature of experience. Topics discussed within the phenomenological tradition include [but are not limited to] the nature of intentionality, perception, time-consciousness, self-consciousness, awareness of the body and consciousness of others.

Of course, making a conclusion is difficult... because of the content-source problem! Still, the Seth material is suggestive;

No academic psychologist, including Dr. Instream, will give you a statement to the effect that [Seth is] a survival personality. Dr. Instream will give a statement I believe, as to Robert and Jane's character, the quality of the Seth material, and the fact that no fraud of any kind is involved.

Not nearly as suggestive as the Phoenix Journals though! I also like the Cosmic Awareness messages (mention is made in Journal #85).

Speaking of which, the emphasis here is mine:

Are you among the few who could read the messages from Cosmic Awareness [or any channeled source] and neither believe nor disbelieve, but use them to stimulate your thoughts and bring your own consciousness toward search and discovery for yourself?
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