Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers - page 7.

LoyceV

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Quote from: m2017 on April 20, 2023, 05:58:56 AM

It's funny, isn't it? It is one thing when it is a hammer for the most ordinary driving of nails and quite another when a hammer is used to engrave the seed-phrase. This is some kind of magic: the hammer instantly becomes "golden" for the buyer. Do their marketers have the philosopher's stone that the alchemists were looking for to turn ~~lead~~ hammer into gold. Cheesy

Marketing has always worked like that. Many specialized shops sell items at several times the price of other shops, but people still buy them. I'm not judging them, it's totally fine. Supply and demand is a free market, and people love to buy "the idea".

m2017

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Quote from: LoyceV on April 20, 2023, 03:11:35 AM

Quote from: cygan on April 20, 2023, 02:19:38 AM

the starter kit shown below is available for €149

That's a lot of money just to make it look nice. It's not as if you can use it to show off, so I'd rather go for a much cheaper hammer and letters.
Worse than the price is that the seller knows exactly what you need it for, unlike when you buy tools at a hardware store.

It's funny, isn't it? It is one thing when it is a hammer for the most ordinary driving of nails and quite another when a hammer is used to engrave the seed-phrase. This is some kind of magic: the hammer instantly becomes "golden" for the buyer. Do their marketers have the philosopher's stone that the alchemists were looking for to turn ~~lead~~ hammer into gold. Cheesy

Such are the simple laws of the market: cunning sellers are trying to cash in on naive buyers.

cygan

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Quote from: LoyceV on April 20, 2023, 03:11:35 AM

Quote from: cygan on April 20, 2023, 02:19:38 AM

the starter kit shown below is available for €149

That's a lot of money just to make it look nice. It's not as if you can use it to show off, so I'd rather go for a much cheaper hammer and letters.
Worse than the price is that the seller knows exactly what you need it for, unlike when you buy tools at a hardware store.

agree with you on both points and would definitely not order it through the seller.
but that's also the thing like e.g. with a ledger purchase - who orders this, has then certainly invested 95% in cryptos and would like to store them on this hw...

LoyceV

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Quote from: cygan on April 20, 2023, 02:19:38 AM

the starter kit shown below is available for €149

That's a lot of money just to make it look nice. It's not as if you can use it to show off, so I'd rather go for a much cheaper hammer and letters.
Worse than the price is that the seller knows exactly what you need it for, unlike when you buy tools at a hardware store.

cygan

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as i wrote in the german thread, there is a startup in germany called SEEDOR that specializes in exactly this type (washers) of seed storage.
in this variant, instead of an anvil, a base plate made of solid stainless steel is used, which is then attached directly under the stamping jig.
the starter kit shown below is available for €149 and comes in a fine box with magnetic closure.

https://www.seedor.io/en

dkbit98

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Quote from: bpkdasbaum on March 28, 2023, 07:06:29 PM

I can make you a Seed Backup Jig in any size. Visit my shop here and message me your exact specifications that you want:

Can you tell me what type of plastic and 3d printing machine you are using?
Nice work and I like you are offering free shipping, but I don't like you are using Etsy that can be very restrictive and easily ban it's users, plus they don't accept Bitcoin payments Roll Eyes

I would create website or blog to offer jigs directly, or you could offer them for BTC in Marketplace section.

vapourminer

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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?

Quote from: fillippone on June 25, 2022, 02:25:53 PM

Quote from: n0nce on June 25, 2022, 02:08:10 PM

Quote from: fillippone on June 25, 2022, 01:57:04 PM

To be honest those look quite similar to barbell weights, but isn’t a bold the object peeking in the bottom right of the picture? Is that a giant bolt?

Probably the actual barbell. Everything in the picture looks like barbell parts.

Quote from: fillippone on June 25, 2022, 01:57:04 PM

In addition to that, what is the oven story?

He probably had to heat the tools to be able to dent the barbell weights' surface. But I'd really like to see how the words look like; even if it's a single letter.

I have seen those “strongest man” competition where you are supposed to lift spherical stones, turn gigantic tires or stuff like that. News year the prize will be awarded to who will be able to print a seed phrase on those barbell weights!

if youre a VERY good shot with serious ammo i imagine someone with the mad skillz could shoot the 1st 3 letters of the all the seed words into a single large dumbbell weight. and to several while youre at it maybe.

i would try this myself but im not that good a shot.

i mean if youre gonna store seeds like this it would be hella more fun than using a punch set. and come on, fun is where you find it.

edit: i suppose i could mark this as sarcasm, but anyone who knows me.. well i have no comment at this time.

LoyceV

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Quoting for the image to show up:

Quote from: bpkdasbaum on March 28, 2023, 07:06:29 PM

https://www.etsy.com/shop/BaumCrypto

I wanted to report your post (advertising isn't allowed), but it actually looks good and fits the topic. If you accept Bitcoin, you should create a topic on the Goods board.

bpkdasbaum

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Quote from: AverageGlabella on March 07, 2023, 05:05:17 PM

I do not own a 3d printer can I buy your jig from any where or will I have to buy the cryptocloak jig? I want to use bigger washers and not 25mm which are the only one that cryptocloak support. Only $10 for the jig is a good price and I do not think I can make one cheaper then that because I would need to use a company to print the jig.

I can make you a Seed Backup Jig in any size. Visit my shop here and message me your exact specifications that you want:

https://www.etsy.com/shop/BaumCrypto

https://i.etsystatic.com/41503409/r/il/689efd/4813988559/il_1588xN.4813988559_fcds.jpg

Worldwide free shipping.

n0nce

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Quote from: AverageGlabella on March 07, 2023, 05:05:17 PM

I do not own a 3d printer can I buy your jig from any where or will I have to buy the cryptocloak jig? I want to use bigger washers and not 25mm which are the only one that cryptocloak support. Only $10 for the jig is a good price and I do not think I can make one cheaper then that because I would need to use a company to print the jig.

Depending on your location and whether you're comfortable with sharing it with myself, you can DM me and we'll figure something out. Don't worry about the price. Wink

fillippone

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 24, 2023, 02:40:23 AM

easy to work with (bending/soldering)

Blimey! You are not Italian, otherwise in your school history you would be plenty, I mean plenty, of copper bas-reliefs. Ask the dumbest Italian about copper and the third thing that will come out after wires and drain pipes, is those stupid primary school artworks everyone had to do.

Quote from: LoyceV on February 24, 2023, 02:40:23 AM

Try to make a 1 mm deep seed word in stainless steel, how many times do you need to hit it?

In my experience, with a heavy hammer and the jig, just one good hit is enough.

AverageGlabella

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I do not own a 3d printer can I buy your jig from any where or will I have to buy the cryptocloak jig? I want to use bigger washers and not 25mm which are the only one that cryptocloak support. Only $10 for the jig is a good price and I do not think I can make one cheaper then that because I would need to use a company to print the jig.

Welsh

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 24, 2023, 02:40:23 AM

Copper is good at several things: conducting electricity, killing microbes, easy to work with (bending/soldering) and lasts very long

It's naturally antibacterial, obviously that's good for certain applications, but not so much for a seed backup. Conducting electricity isn't that helpful in this use case either. However, by no means is it a useless metal. Hence, why we still use it today for various applications. Every home likely has copper used somewhere inside it, and a lot of them have waste that they could potentially cut from it. I've seen some horrendous jobs where a contractor has come in, cut into the pipe, and inserted what is basically a cap. Then, they just leave the excess pipe there. So, free pipe. There are certain times they do this because the owner might want to expand at a later date, but sometimes it's also due to laziness or not having the means to dispose of it.

Quote from: LoyceV on February 24, 2023, 02:40:23 AM

Try to make a 1 mm deep seed word in stainless steel, how many times do you need to hit it?

Now that depends on how strong you're, right? Wink

LoyceV

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Quote from: dkbit98 on February 23, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

It is more expensive than stainless steel so it must be better for something, maybe not for backing up bitcoin seed phrase but for something else.

Copper is good at several things: conducting electricity, killing microbes, easy to work with (bending/soldering) and lasts very long (I admit: I had to Google this, because I didn't think of the last 2).
Try to make a 1 mm deep seed word in stainless steel, how many times do you need to hit it?

dkbit98

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 23, 2023, 10:17:52 AM

I don't think anyone throws out copper, it's worth €6.50/kg! In fact, copper theft is a serious problem. So if you have old pipes, sell it, and buy washers Cheesy

There are recycling centers all around the world that buys used metal materials, but beware that there are many different type of copper.
It is more expensive than stainless steel so it must be better for something, maybe not for backing up bitcoin seed phrase but for something else.
One example how price of copper increased a lot, on Jameson Lopp review website Safe Seed copper plate was $16 (one of the cheapest at that time), and few years later price is $28... nice inflation.

Quote from: Welsh on February 23, 2023, 10:38:19 AM

They do! You'd be surprised by the amount of waste of construction sites.

People throw out everything Cheesy

I know people who found perfectly working good quality laptops in garbage, or they had some small error.

Welsh

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 23, 2023, 10:17:52 AM

I don't think anyone throws out copper, it's worth €6.50/kg! In fact, copper theft is a serious problem. So if you have old pipes, sell it, and buy washers Cheesy

They do! You'd be surprised by the amount of waste of construction sites. Copper isn't even the most expensive thing they throw away. You can blame the quantity surveyors, but there's a ton of waste on construction sites. I know people who have outfitted their camper van with the waste from the construction site that they work at. I'm assuming with permission Tongue

. I'm not sure how much pipes or copper cabling weighs mind you, might take a bit to get to the price per kilogram.

However, on the topic of wastage or where you can save a little money; steel washers are everywhere in rubbish places. So, you can always ask them or even construction sites again. Washers are often tossed away after they've completed the project. I'm sure if you ask nicely you could get a freebie.

fillippone

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 23, 2023, 10:17:52 AM

Quote from: Welsh on February 23, 2023, 08:58:30 AM

if you don't need to extra strength or durability of stainless steel, then sure copper is a cheap alternative. It could even be free as you say, since most households have dead legs of copper pipes where alterations have been made, and they just capped it off instead of removing it. So, yeah you could probably source it pretty cheaply. You could potentially even talk to construction site managers, and see if you can have some of their waste material. Since, they could through a ton, and a lot of it gets thrown out in their skips.

I don't think anyone throws out copper, it's worth €6.50/kg! In fact, copper theft is a serious problem. So if you have old pipes, sell it, and buy washers Cheesy

My point is how saving 10 USD or so can become a relevant aspect when securing intergenerational wealth.
Some aspect of my guide are clearly an overkill on the bare minimum, but I struggle with the concept of taking risks on the materials used for stamping.

LoyceV

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Quote from: Welsh on February 23, 2023, 08:58:30 AM

if you don't need to extra strength or durability of stainless steel, then sure copper is a cheap alternative. It could even be free as you say, since most households have dead legs of copper pipes where alterations have been made, and they just capped it off instead of removing it. So, yeah you could probably source it pretty cheaply. You could potentially even talk to construction site managers, and see if you can have some of their waste material. Since, they could through a ton, and a lot of it gets thrown out in their skips.

I don't think anyone throws out copper, it's worth €6.50/kg! In fact, copper theft is a serious problem. So if you have old pipes, sell it, and buy washers Cheesy

Welsh

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Quote from: dkbit98 on February 20, 2023, 05:03:32 PM

Someone else mentioned copper first, and I know it's not perfect but it's still much better than aluminum and other cheap metals.
If you already have something copper at home than it's possible to use that as custom backup, nobody will think anything suspicious about it, even if it's pipes we are talking Cheesy

Here is Jameson Lopp testing Copper Safe Seed plate that passed all tests with perfect score, and it costs only $28:
https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/reviews/safe-seed/

I'm not knocking the idea, I just think there's better options. However, that entirely depends on your threat model. I mean, if you don't need to extra strength or durability of stainless steel, then sure copper is a cheap alternative. It could even be free as you say, since most households have dead legs of copper pipes where alterations have been made, and they just capped it off instead of removing it. So, yeah you could probably source it pretty cheaply. You could potentially even talk to construction site managers, and see if you can have some of their waste material. Since, they could through a ton, and a lot of it gets thrown out in their skips.

I personally prefer a more permanent solution though, and by that I mean the extra durability, and corrosion resistance that Stainless Steel offers. Honestly, I believe stainless steel to be overall the best option since it's also not that expensive, and does a good job for most environments.

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with copper you can go with say leather stamps and you don't need sledgehammer. $10

those latter steel guys are fucked up slightly no?

Topic: Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers - page 7. (Read 6990 times)