Should Ratimov aka Symmetrick be in DT1? - page 21.

dkbit98

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 25, 2023, 02:34:42 AM

DT1 is a voting system. If good people leave, only the bad people are left. So leaving the system makes it worse.

If system is bad it doesn't really matter how many people in the system are ''good'' or ''bad''.
I wouldn't participate in any voting or elections if I know that results won't significantly change anything.
First improve DT system, than ask people to join or leave.

Learn Bitcoin

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 24, 2023, 10:42:43 PM

Also, it's not so clear to me that they are off-topic simply because he deleted them. If someone accidentally exposes a piece of evidence that reveals they have broken the rules and upon realizing it immediately deletes the post, referring to the deleted post is off-topic? Of course it isn't. And I'm not saying this is the case but it's an example that it shouldn't automatically be considered off-topic to refer to a post that someone has deleted.

At first, I did not notice that before moderators deleted those three posts, they edited my first post and merged all four into one. All I saw is I got three PMs and three emails that my posts were deleted from this thread, which is why I was kinda confused about the forum rules. Under which rules did those posts become off-topic or violate any other forum rules?

But since those posts were merged before they deleted the original ones, I know the reason why they merged. All those posts were replies to Ratimov. Once Ratimov deleted all his posts, my posts became all in a row. According to the forum rules, I cannot write multiple posts in a row.

The argument could be I did not post them in a row. But it becomes all in a row because someone decided to delete their post. I do not control others. I never know if they will delete all their posts or not.

Imagine you were writing to me in a thread back and forth, and I deleted all my posts, and now all your posts are in a row. LOL. That's how I can manipulate the system.

Helena Yu

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 25, 2023, 02:34:42 AM

What's up with that?

He deleted his own topic, my assumption is he want to get rid from users who say he's a plagiarist or he use google translate to write that? not really sure, but something like that. Since there's nothing wrong for someone to delete their post, so it's what it's.

LoyceV

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Quote from: examplens on October 24, 2023, 01:34:58 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 12:37:17 PM

I've said it before: when I read such feedback, filled with name calling, I don't take it seriously. And it tells me a lot about the user who left that feedback.

The same feedback left by different users can have a completely different weight, regardless of the personal trust list.

Good point. If one person calls someone an idiot, I assume it's just name calling. But if many people call someone an idiot, he may just be an idiot Cheesy

Quote from: dkbit98 on October 24, 2023, 02:52:58 PM

From the top of my mind I can think of few other members who deserve to be expelled from DT1 for abuse of trust system, but they are still there.

I am really glad I left DT1 on my own, and it will stay like that until I see some real changes, not just cosmetic trim.

DT1 is a voting system. If good people leave, only the bad people are left. So leaving the system makes it worse.

Quote from: nutildah on October 24, 2023, 10:27:37 PM

Because Ratimov deleted his posts

I noticed this:

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What's up with that?

Poker Player

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Quote from: nutildah on October 24, 2023, 10:27:37 PM

Quote from: Learn Bitcoin on October 24, 2023, 09:40:07 PM

All of those posts were On Topic and constructive. I did not use any foul language like others did even though I know using these words is allowed. So, why those posts were removed? Because some so-called heavy-weight reputed member reported them?

Because Ratimov deleted his posts and thus your posts were rendered off-topic.

I think the most likely thing here is that after deleting his posts, Ratimov reported Learn Bitcoin's posts no? Or is it that the moderators are following the thread and deleting posts like that on their own initiative? Ok, so I've seen the explanation on another thread.

Also, it's not so clear to me that they are off-topic simply because he deleted them. If someone accidentally exposes a piece of evidence that reveals they have broken the rules and upon realizing it immediately deletes the post, referring to the deleted post is off-topic? Of course it isn't. And I'm not saying this is the case but it's an example that it shouldn't automatically be considered off-topic to refer to a post that someone has deleted.

nutildah

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Quote from: suchmoon on October 24, 2023, 01:20:26 PM

Also keep in mind that even when caught plagiarising he thought the best excuse is not admitting that was he was doing was unethical, but that Google Translate made him do it.

Somewhat coincidentally, I recall that Lauda was also busted on a plagiarism issue (from years back, like 2015 or 2016) and it caused a minor stir when there was no moderation action taken against them.

Quote from: digaran on October 24, 2023, 05:38:52 PM

Have you noticed every single DT and non-DT always complains about trust system

I don't complain about it. I think it works fairly well, so long as we keep each other in check.

Quote from: Learn Bitcoin on October 24, 2023, 09:40:07 PM

All of those posts were On Topic and constructive. I did not use any foul language like others did even though I know using these words is allowed. So, why those posts were removed? Because some so-called heavy-weight reputed member reported them?

Because Ratimov deleted his posts and thus your posts were rendered off-topic.

Edit: the posts in question weren't deleted, just merged

Learn Bitcoin

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Okay, I had no intention of returning to this thread, but it seems Moderators are also maintaining double standards. Last night, I was emailed that my three posts were removed from this thread. Here is the archive link of those posts;

https://ninjastic.space/post/63040347

https://ninjastic.space/post/63040507

https://ninjastic.space/post/63040536

All of those posts were On Topic and constructive. I did not use any foul language like others did even though I know using these words is allowed. So, why those posts were removed? Because some so-called heavy-weight reputed member reported them?

digaran

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🖤😏

Have you noticed every single DT and non-DT always complains about trust system, ironically even those who'd abuse others say the same thing, like when you talk with poor and rich, they both complain about inflation, and whine like little kids, it makes you wonder, who is happy here if everyone is complaining? Lol I love this community, it's the weirdest of them all.🤥

I mean, go ask theymos to see what is his opinion, if he didn't complain about it, I will change my name, it makes you wonder once again, who is behind this trust system if even the one who designed it is not happy about it?🤣

dkbit98

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DT drama theater came back in town again or what?
I am not supporting Ratimov in any way but throwing him out won't fix anything, and it won't make currently broke DT system any better.
From the top of my mind I can think of few other members who deserve to be expelled from DT1 for abuse of trust system, but they are still there.

I am really glad I left DT1 on my own, and it will stay like that until I see some real changes, not just cosmetic trim.

examplens

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 12:37:17 PM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on October 24, 2023, 08:57:07 AM

Let's read some neutral feedback.

I've said it before: when I read such feedback, filled with name calling, I don't take it seriously. And it tells me a lot about the user who left that feedback.

The same feedback left by different users can have a completely different weight, regardless of the personal trust list. One of the reasons why more experienced forum members do not participate in large numbers in such discussions is whether someone should be a DT member or not.
Perhaps this makes it difficult for newcomers to understand the entire DT system.

suchmoon

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Quote from: nutildah on October 24, 2023, 01:10:58 AM

Lauda had a bunch of bad ratings as well, was extremely vindictive and used (his/her/their) power to basically bully people into submission... its almost like they got off on it. I haven't witnessed Ratimov do that but perhaps I just haven't been in those threads.

Certainly not the first time he's flying off the handle, and he's never ever wrong. Not quite the qualities I'd expect from a DT member.

Also keep in mind that even when caught plagiarising he thought the best excuse is not admitting that was he was doing was unethical, but that Google Translate made him do it. IMO on the scale of trustworthiness that's right up there with another plagiarist who got off by claiming they bought the plagiarist account.

Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 03:39:30 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on October 23, 2023, 01:02:18 PM

because of the spineless nature of DT1 there is basically no recourse.

Suggestion: ask theymos to undo your own DT1-exclusion and make your Trust list mean something for voting again

But then I won't be able to bitch about spineless DT1...

LoyceV

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on October 24, 2023, 08:57:07 AM

Let's read some neutral feedback.

I've said it before: when I read such feedback, filled with name calling, I don't take it seriously. And it tells me a lot about the user who left that feedback.

Quote

If any of these were applied to your feedback page, I am sure you would not mind at all.

It's not pretty indeed.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 08:42:58 AM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on October 24, 2023, 07:53:27 AM

Many things are handled by trust system that shouldn't be handled.

True. But that doesn't mean I can't advocate the correct use of the Trust system.

Yeah keep advocating, good luck.

Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 08:42:58 AM

I don't mind the neutral tags much. But negative (and positive) lose their value if they're often used incorrectly.

Let's read some neutral feedback.

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Liar and rumor monger. He believes that everything he does on the forum should not be criticized. He attacks anyone who criticizes him through distrust and negative trust.

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Misuses Trust system while being DT1 user. Liar, troll, making ridiculous fake accusations for which he presents no evidence. Very untrustworthy user, which deliberately spreads lies. Avoid.

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Used to be, in my eyes, a respected and reputable member of Bitcointalk but in recent times they've turned incredibly vindictive while virtue signaling to the extreme. Sad to see.

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BEWARE: BitcoinGirl.Club cannot be trusted. Made baseless accusations against me as part of a revenge ploy to post lies then keep repeating them. Do not trust a compulsive liar as BitcoinGirl.Club

BitcoinGirl.Club seems mentally unwell, suffers from serious anger problems and from delusions of grandeur because of an overinflated ego (revised to neutral)

Quote

"BenCodie" made remarkable statements he was trying to get selected on Whirlwind signature campaign when he was convinced it was a scam. He opted to not warn others who applied believing it was a genuine business.

Reluctantly I am leaving neutral feedback rather than red because he semi-retracted the claim later.

Quote

BEWARE: "unibitcoinist" cannot be trusted. With his 6 posts in the previous 3 years and 3 months, this alt-account is being used occasionally by the duplicitous operator.

As the previous feedback states, "unibitcoinist" is a general nuisance trying pass himself off as concerned member. The real forum account of the puppeteer is not known.

Looking on the color you call them neutral, but when you read the sentence do you feel it was neutral? If any of these were applied to your feedback page, I am sure you would not mind at all.

Neutral feeedback should be neutral, like literally it should be neutral.
Some examples:

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Arsenal fails to win [which they will] the season title, Mouse gives me 1mbtc or I give 2.5mbtc. Side bet.

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Open side bet in EPL Pool. I will finish the season ahead of this CLS63 f**ker LOL.

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Negative revised to neutral. Account was maybe hacked and returned to owner.

LoyceV

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on October 24, 2023, 07:53:27 AM

Many things are handled by trust system that shouldn't be handled.

True. But that doesn't mean I can't advocate the correct use of the Trust system.

Quote

Someone is pissed, they will leave a neutral note with insults on the trust feedback
Someone thinks the other one is not writing up to the standard posts, they will write these or that guy is a spammer.

I don't mind the neutral tags much. But negative (and positive) lose their value if they're often used incorrectly.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 04:27:08 AM

Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on October 24, 2023, 04:10:23 AM

it's hard to convince myself, at least at the moment, that theft -- intellectual theft, in this case -- does not fall under the cases when negative feedback can be used.

I'm more pragmatic: plagiarism is dealt with by forum rules, and if something is handled by forum rules, it shouldn't be handled by the Trust system.

Many things are handled by trust system that shouldn't be handled.

Someone is pissed, they will leave a neutral note with insults on the trust feedback
Someone thinks the other one is not writing up to the standard posts, they will write these or that guy is a spammer.

Problem in this community, when something do not affect you personally, members are silent and writing things that are politically correct and don't make others their target but when the same thing effect you directly then you feel it's not right.

The trust system would work much better if we were not selfish and had the genuine interest to speak when it's needed for the forum, not when it's needed for personal benefit.

What GazetaBitcoin is doing are inspired by his personal reasons.

I was always proactive against Ratimov and JollyGood. Ratimov was able to burn his wrongs in the grave yard, not sure if he is continuing the same but JollyGood is still actively using you all. However, after all these days I am done though. I said, I" was always ..."

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Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on October 23, 2023, 02:02:08 PM

Quote from: holydarkness on October 23, 2023, 01:53:38 PM

Ratimov, may I ask why the new feedback while on the previous [removed] post you said you tried to do everything you could to resolve this conflict by removing the tag? Was it because the deal is off the table, because Gazeta refuses to remove his tag? Thus, what Gazeta said somewhat contain some degree of truth in it, that what you tried to do was to deal yourself out of a stuation?

I hope you already know the answers to your questions, right?

Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on October 24, 2023, 01:51:20 AM

[...]
@holydarkness (this is also addressed to all other users interested about this topic), here's a list of other rhetorical questions you can ask (and be sure that Ratimov will never answer to them):
[...]

I'm actually giving him a room to air his laundry and/or to say something to explain the reason behind his decision, I believe you know that's how I operates. I can't help but wonder why he isn't yet, he posted on several other boards, but seemingly ignoring this thread.

Quote from: PytagoraZ on October 24, 2023, 04:33:42 AM

[...]
Maybe because he no longer believes in mods and feels better than him. Very selfish, huh? Luckily Thyemos is very wise, otherwise everything would be lost... LOL

Umm... IIRC, Gazeta reported a lot, a lot of posts. And by a lot, I mean tens of thousands.

PytagoraZ

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Jolly? I think I've heard that name before. hmm

Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 04:27:08 AM

Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on October 24, 2023, 04:10:23 AM

it's hard to convince myself, at least at the moment, that theft -- intellectual theft, in this case -- does not fall under the cases when negative feedback can be used.

I'm more pragmatic: plagiarism is dealt with by forum rules, and if something is handled by forum rules, it shouldn't be handled by the Trust system.

Strongly agree

Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 04:27:08 AM

Quote

Sadly, it would be no point in reporting those posts, because they are older than 6 months and reports will get (almost) automatically marked as Bad.

I've reported old posts, and as long as it's for the right reasons (so not "We generally do not moderate posts this old for on-topicness, substantiveness, multi-posting, and other "cleanliness" issues."), it gets handled.
Why care about Bad reports anyway? I think Bad reports as "proof" I don't only report the obvious cases, but also report the edge cases where the Mod can decide.

Maybe because he no longer believes in mods and feels better than him. Very selfish, huh? Luckily Thyemos is very wise, otherwise everything would be lost... LOL

LoyceV

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Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on October 24, 2023, 04:10:23 AM

it's hard to convince myself, at least at the moment, that theft -- intellectual theft, in this case -- does not fall under the cases when negative feedback can be used.

I'm more pragmatic: plagiarism is dealt with by forum rules, and if something is handled by forum rules, it shouldn't be handled by the Trust system.

Quote

Sadly, it would be no point in reporting those posts, because they are older than 6 months and reports will get (almost) automatically marked as Bad.

I've reported old posts, and as long as it's for the right reasons (so not "We generally do not moderate posts this old for on-topicness, substantiveness, multi-posting, and other "cleanliness" issues."), it gets handled.
Why care about Bad reports anyway? I think of Bad reports as "proof" I don't only report the obvious cases, but also report the edge cases where the Mod can decide.

lovesmayfamilis

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✿♥‿♥✿

I can't read that many walls of text, but I'll repeat myself since my post was shown as an opinion.
Yes, strong people and people who consider themselves right will never spit slop. The words expressed in anger by Ratimov, concerning GazetaBitcoin's mother, and the nation, look terrifying to me personally. Not being able to control yourself so much, not being able to understand that for someone this is tantamount to an insult, for which offline would be punished very severely. I think Ratimov would never say something like that to a Chechen or a person of Caucasian nationality. But on the Internet we are brave, and this is very sad. Most often this happens to people who have absolutely no value in the offline.
I would suggest taking down reviews from each other that was posted in anger and using all possible methods to avoid seeing posts and not communicating. Every person has people whom they call “friends” or “strangers”. Just remove yourself from each other's lives.

GazetaBitcoin

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 03:39:30 AM

I try to be very conservative with negative feedback and trust exclusions. I think this is part of what got my my "Switzerland" nickname.

I know...

Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 03:39:30 AM

Timelord's feedback had been off for years.

Isn't this also the case of Ratimov? I precisely presented recent examples, but also ones from years ago, in order to provide evidence that he does it continuously, just like TL.

Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 03:39:30 AM

In this case, I still hope both of you will see you're doing it wrong. That includes your latest negative feedback: I think that one should also be neutral.

Due to my high respect to you, I will think about that. But it's hard to convince myself, at least at the moment, that theft -- intellectual theft, in this case -- does not fall under the cases when negative feedback can be used. As you probably noticed, I always emphasized about correct use of Trust system and the fact that positive and negative feedbacks should be used for successful deals or, respectively, for prejudices determined by bad deals. So I know the guidelines of the system. And, in this case, I tend to believe that Ratimov did intellectual theft in a continuous form, did it knowing precisely what he's doing and did it only for luring forum users of what a good contributor he is while, in fact, he only stole work of others and presented it as being his. Indeed, he did not sneak his hand in someone's pocket for stealing money; instead, he sneaked in someone's workshop and stole that person's work. At least this is how I see it...

However, the main question from this topic is if Ratimov's behavior is constant abuse of Trust or not -- therefore should he be part of DT or not?

Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 03:39:30 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on October 23, 2023, 01:02:18 PM

because of the spineless nature of DT1 there is basically no recourse.

Suggestion: ask theymos to undo your own DT1-exclusion and make your Trust list mean something for voting again

I also vouch strongly for that. (Maybe since there are two of us suchmoon will let herself be convinced? Roll Eyes

)

Quote from: LoyceV on October 24, 2023, 03:39:30 AM

Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on October 23, 2023, 02:02:08 PM

it is now clear that he also broke rule 27.

Great. Report it. Let the Mods decide. Move on.

Sadly, it would be no point in reporting those posts, because they are older than 6 months and reports will get (almost) automatically marked as Bad. there are 99% chances for this to happen. Otherwise I would report them.

Topic: Should Ratimov aka Symmetrick be in DT1? - page 21. (Read 9838 times)