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Topic: SilkRoad domain Seized? - page 5. (Read 46634 times)

hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 504
October 02, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
This would be the blockchain for the BTC sent to red&white for the second hit. ~1670 BTC on 3/31/13

http://blockchain.info/en/tx/4a0a5b6036c0da84c3eb9c2a884b6ad72416d1758470e19fb1d2fa2a145b5601

EDIT and incase you missed my other post

Quote
Response from a MOD on SR forums. Seems LE has control of the forums, using it to absorb any and all evidence possible.

http://i.imgur.com/v4LC2Fw.png (screenshot post from MOD on SR fourms)

Kind of creepy looking at a transaction that may have been for a murder-for-hire
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
Keep it real
October 02, 2013, 07:11:17 PM
This would be the blockchain for the BTC sent to red&white for the second hit. ~1670 BTC on 3/31/13

http://blockchain.info/en/tx/4a0a5b6036c0da84c3eb9c2a884b6ad72416d1758470e19fb1d2fa2a145b5601

EDIT and incase you missed my other post

Quote
Response from a MOD on SR forums. Seems LE has control of the forums, using it to absorb any and all evidence possible.

http://i.imgur.com/v4LC2Fw.png (screenshot post from MOD on SR fourms)

The timeline in the post is wrong, the server image is from June 2013 not 2012.  Also he's assuming the LE has control of the forums, doesn't state that they do.
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
October 02, 2013, 07:10:20 PM
It's tragic that an innocent person will be inprisoned by the government and that the free market has been interfered with, but I'm confident that an even better Silk Road will appear in the near future.

Didn't DPR say that he bought Silk Road from someone else? What happened to that? Was he just lying?

Would you believe that I, as an ancap, also find Rothbard unconvincing?  Not only that, but I don't think the "non-aggression principle" is an adequate guide for political philosophy.  I'm not a libertarian due to moral axioms, but rather, because I think it produces the best outcomes. 

I'm also a "Friedmanite ancap", though I also generally believe that the NAP is a good moral rule to follow in almost all cases. Rothbard may have contributed a lot to libertarianism and economics, but his ethical theory is contradictory in some places in disturbing in others.

Even if you're an ancap purely for moral reasons, it's good to know the non-moral arguments for it: A lot of people simply disagree with the NAP, and your moral arguments will be useless against such people.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
October 02, 2013, 07:04:53 PM
This would be the blockchain for the BTC sent to red&white for the second hit. ~1670 BTC on 3/31/13

http://blockchain.info/en/tx/4a0a5b6036c0da84c3eb9c2a884b6ad72416d1758470e19fb1d2fa2a145b5601

EDIT and incase you missed my other post

Quote
Response from a MOD on SR forums. Seems LE has control of the forums, using it to absorb any and all evidence possible.

http://i.imgur.com/v4LC2Fw.png (screenshot post from MOD on SR fourms)
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
October 02, 2013, 07:03:10 PM
Hmm, looks like I have to withdraw much of my skepticism about the assassination text allegedly found on DPR's server...Such a wire from a bank account in Australia should be easy to verify but harder to fake.

The source of the info/disinfo is still the Feds so skepticism is always in order. ...

That's why I said "much" not all. The vital piece of information for me is the bank account wire. I can't see that being easy to fabricate. I'm not saying impossible, but certainly not easy. For any fabrication a government makes the risk must be weighed for the possibility of being caught, and if so the ramifications of that. In this case the assassination story IMO leans more on the side of truthfulness of the feds this time.
hero member
Activity: 687
Merit: 500
October 02, 2013, 07:00:58 PM
Was all of his bitcoins compromised by the Feds?
If I had that much BTC I would spread it out.

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
October 02, 2013, 06:56:30 PM
Hmm, looks like I have to withdraw much of my skepticism about the assassination text allegedly found on DPR's server...Such a wire from a bank account in Australia should be easy to verify but harder to fake.

The source of the info/disinfo is still the Feds so skepticism is always in order.

These are the same mindsets that took $5 million from gox just cuz.
full member
Activity: 134
Merit: 100
October 02, 2013, 06:50:58 PM
who decides what should be illegal anyway?
I never remember attending to a yearly/bi-yearly...so on voting regarding any of the matter (legality of drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc..)

I thought we are in a democracy, why don't our opinion count???
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
October 02, 2013, 06:49:46 PM
And possible info on that first "murder for hire" plot, the one he said he got done for $80k.. seems he was set up in that one too by the feds!
This news article has a lot of info I havnt heard about so far.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bal-silk-road-owner-ross-william-ulbricht-allegedly-tried-to-arrange-witness-murder-in-md-20131002,0,5476223.story

Hmm, looks like I have to withdraw much of my skepticism about the assassination text allegedly found on DPR's server:

Quote
The agent led Ulbricht to believe that the killing had been carried out, including staged photos of the employee being tortured, and on March 1 Ulbricht wired $80,000 from an account in Austrailia to an account controlled by authorities.

Such a wire from a bank account in Australia should be easy to verify but harder to fake.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
October 02, 2013, 06:46:06 PM
And possible info on that first "murder for hire" plot, the one he said he got done for $80k.. seems he was set up in that one too by the feds!
This news article has a lot of info I havnt heard about so far.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bal-silk-road-owner-ross-william-ulbricht-allegedly-tried-to-arrange-witness-murder-in-md-20131002,0,5476223.story

The plot thickens (many similarities with the Walter White saga, both in the supposed facts and in the psychology related to them):

Quote
The Maryland charges stem from his alleged interactions starting in April 2012 with an undercover agent here. The agent began communicating with Ulbricht, court documents say, claiming to be a high-level drug smuggler who wanted to move inventory on Silk Road.

When one of Ulbricht's employees got arrested in January as a result of one their arranged transactions, authorities say Ulbricht worried that the employee would blow his cover.

Ulbricht allegedly asked the undercover agent to have the employee killed, saying he had "never killed a man or had one killed before, but it is the right move in this case."

The agent led Ulbricht to believe that the killing had been carried out, including staged photos of the employee being tortured, and on March 1 Ulbricht wired $80,000 from an account in Austrailia to an account controlled by authorities.

The series of events emboldened Ulbricht, according to separate documents filed in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York. Later in March, according to private messages reviewed by federal agents, a Silk Road vendor threatened to blackmail Ulbricht by exposing information about the site's users and transactions.

Ulbricht then reached out to a user to take care of the problem, according to court records.

"I would like to put a bounty on his head if it's not too much trouble for you," he wrote in a message on March 29, authorities say in court documents. "Necessities like this do happen from time to time for a person in my position."

Messages exchanged between Ulbricht and the user show they discussed prices between $150,000 and $300,000, depending on whether Ulbricht wanted it done "clean or non-clean." On April 1, the user told Ulbricht that his problem had been "taken care of" and sent a picture of the victim.

It's not clear whether such a killing occurred -- agents wrote that they could find no record of there being someone with the name of the victim that was exchanged. They said they contacted authorities in White Rock, British Columbia about whether a homicide had been committed on March 31.
legendary
Activity: 1552
Merit: 1047
October 02, 2013, 06:39:06 PM
That he was an an-cap?  Well, so is probably 20% of the community here.
That also includes Jeffery Tucker, Roger Ver, Jeff Berwick, Stefan Molyneux, and quite a few others. Maybe Mike Hearn can publicly debate them sometime, if he's got something more than insults to bring to the table.
+1

It's really disappointing to see such pathetic outbursts of authoritarianism coming from Mike Hearn. He lost all respect I had for him today. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad he did, now we know his true colors.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
October 02, 2013, 06:25:29 PM
And possible info on that first "murder for hire" plot, the one he said he got done for $80k.. seems he was set up in that one too by the feds!
This news article has a lot of info I havnt heard about so far.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bal-silk-road-owner-ross-william-ulbricht-allegedly-tried-to-arrange-witness-murder-in-md-20131002,0,5476223.story
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
October 02, 2013, 06:22:41 PM
Response from a MOD on SR forums. Seems LE has control of the forums, using it to absorb any and all evidence possible.

http://i.imgur.com/v4LC2Fw.png (screenshot post from MOD on SR fourms)
legendary
Activity: 1040
Merit: 1001
October 02, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Would you believe that I, as an ancap, also find Rothbard unconvincing?  Not only that, but I don't think the "non-aggression principle" is an adequate guide for political philosophy.  I'm not a libertarian due to moral axioms, but rather, because I think it produces the best outcomes. 

When I talk about anarcho-capitalism, I don't mean ending a govt and leaving a void.  Rather, I hope that certain institutions replace current institutions.  I don't desire lack of security or legal adjudication; I want a market for such.  In place of monopoly, I want competition.  Upon reading this, I'm sure you already have objections, such as, "Why won't various security providers simply fight each other?  Wouldn't they basically be gangs?"  Good question.  Just like you mentioned how at the supra-national level, there's relative peace because of economic development and the high costs of war, in my ideal world, security providers would find peace more profitable than war.  You might be skeptical; I don't blame you.  It's not without cautious skepticism that I hold my views. 

To flesh out these ideas better, there's no better book than The Machinery of Freedom http://www.daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf by David Friedman.  If you appreciate a beautiful argument and a razor-sharp mind mixed with humility, you'll love the book.

As far as empirical examples, there are examples to various degrees, even if not in totality:

* federalism in the early US
* no supra-national govt at the world stage
* medieval merchant law
* insurance companies having procedures to settle disputes outside of courts
* rural California ranchers (Friedman's more advanced book Law's Order goes into this more)
* as mentioned earlier, medieval Iceland

Let's also recognize that just because something is unprecedented, that doesn't mean it's impossible.  Institutionalized slavery was a human universal... until it wasn't.  Women's suffrage was crazy... until it wasn't.  Democracy itself was nutty (one ancient Egyptian to another "What, the ruler will simply step down if he loses a popularity contest?!?!  Haha, you so crazy!!")...until it wasn't.  The idea of a functional cryptocurrency was crazy... until Satoshi made it work.

So yes, the list of functional ancap societies in the modern area is blank, but that doesn't imply they can't exist.  What matters is--can societies thrive under such a system?  Can they evolve into such a system?  The reason I call myself an ancap is because I believe, cautiously, that the answer to both questions is "yes". 

..lots of stuff snipped...

I've actually read some Rothbard. I found his prose to be deeply unconvincing. I respect economists who develop theories and then test them against real world data. Theories that exist in the world of abstract philosophy is how you end up with the deflationary spiral idea - stuff that simply doesn't match observed reality.

Rothbard had a lot of very strange ideas about the nature of cartels and monopolies. DPR was fond of citing him as some kind of authority. But when you read his writings, where are the examples, where are the studies that show his theory matches observed reality better than other theories do? He didn't bother. He asserted some ideas as facts and then engaged in ever more tenuous logical extrapolations. My mind was open and what I found simply didn't win me over.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 504
October 02, 2013, 06:10:46 PM
Hey we can't allow people to kill each other.
That's were I draw the line.
You kill someone you go to jail/go to the chair.
Simple as that.
One could make the argument that objectively the system that SR had in place likely prevented more murders than it caused. But yes he is, if proven in a fair trial (however likely that may be) beyond a shadow of a doubt, a murder and does not deserve freedom.
lives are not numbers.
If you kill one person you're as bad as the person who kills a thousand.

I beg to differ. I am in no way saying its ok to murder anybody...but you can't seriously consider somebody who commits one murder out of self preservation equal to a person who kills a thousand
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
October 02, 2013, 06:07:15 PM
Hey we can't allow people to kill each other.
That's were I draw the line.
You kill someone you go to jail/go to the chair.
Simple as that.
One could make the argument that objectively the system that SR had in place likely prevented more murders than it caused. But yes he is, if proven in a fair trial (however likely that may be) beyond a shadow of a doubt, a murder and does not deserve freedom.
lives are not numbers.
If you kill one person you're as bad as the person who kills a thousand.
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
October 02, 2013, 06:05:28 PM
Hey we can't allow people to kill each other.
That's were I draw the line.
You kill someone you go to jail/go to the chair.
Simple as that.
One could make the argument that objectively the system that SR had in place likely prevented more murders than it caused. But yes he is, if proven in a fair trial (however likely that may be) beyond a shadow of a doubt, a murder and does not deserve freedom.
BCB
vip
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
BCJ
October 02, 2013, 06:01:54 PM
Ross Ulbricht - Thoughts on freedom from his Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/notes/ross-ulbricht/thoughts-on-freedom/108140845903395


Thoughts on FREEDOM
July 5, 2010 at 11:32pm

In light Independence Day, I have been inspired to write down my thoughts on freedom, about a page in length. I hope they will stimulate YOUR thoughts, which I would most enjoy hearing.

What does it mean to be free? This word has been used to describe many things, including feelings, states of being, political and social arrangements, mental states, and physical states. Like something beyond the power of words to describe, freedom exists, but only as it occurs to someone experiencing it. Is it possible for someone locked in a cage to be freer than someone who isn’t? What if they are free from limiting beliefs and can imagine experiences without limits, while the other limits themselves to a prison of dull routines? Can freedom stand up to inter-personal comparisons, or is it a wholly personal experience?

Because of its vague nature, it is useful to make further distinctions. One way to identify freedom is by what one is free from. For example, social freedom could describe freedom from limitations imposed by others. Physical freedom could be freedom from physical restraint either imposed by others or by nature. Personal freedom could describe freedom from beliefs one may have about one’s self, others, and nature that limit what one believes is possible. Always, freedom arises in the absence of limitation. When someone is not limited by others, their physical environment, lack of knowledge or skill, or their own beliefs about what is possible; it is natural for them to expand how they express themselves in the world until the next barrier to their self-expression is reached.

One’s limitations can be difficult to identify because they are not always in plain view, especially the self-imposed ones but also the ones imposed by others and nature. For example, death and taxes are widely agreed upon to be inevitable, but are they? While one may have a choice in how they respond to external limitations, this does not negate their existence. Death and taxes are still real and observable, but inevitable? This is an interpretation. It is an extrapolation from the past in an attempt to predict the future, is not the truth and therefore limits what is possible.

That being said, it is my observation that far too much attention is directed, by people in general, toward limitations that arise out of a lack of skill or knowledge that could be better directed toward eliminating self-imposed limitations and one’s beliefs about seemingly inevitable external limitations. This is understandable because, for limitations in skill or knowledge, the problem, solution, and benefit are easy to see and predict. For example, I know I will have more freedom if I know how to play the piano and that all I need to do is learn to play and practice. However, the solution to and benefit of ridding one’s self of a belief such as “I’m shy” or “telepathy is impossible” are not so apparent. Imagine how rich and fulfilling your life could be, well beyond learning a new skill, if you could let go of the beliefs you have that limit you and live your life to its fullest potential. Imagine what could be accomplished and experienced.

Are you free? Yes and no. Freedom is a relative and unquantifiable thing. The question is, “How can I be freer?” and the answer to that depends on YOU. For me, I could be freer by letting go of beliefs like “life is hard,” “if you want something done right you should do it yourself,” “why try, I’ll probably fail” and so on. I could also be freer by creating and acquiring more resources that allow me to express myself in bigger and broader ways, both physical in form and in the form of relationships.

Let Independence Day be a reminder to us that we live in a most unique time, and are freer, as a generation, than any that has come before us. Let us be thankful for our freedom, and build a world where we, and the generations that follow us, will be freer than any that have come before!
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
October 02, 2013, 05:49:13 PM
lol @ ppl discussing here now that drugs is infact, liberal and thus a good thing

bitcoiners.. always in for a joke





Lol he's in on it he's in on it he's one of the feds!
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