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Topic: SilkRoad domain Seized? - page 7. (Read 46632 times)

legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
October 02, 2013, 05:09:13 PM
Page 10 of the complaint claims the site had a section listing hitmen. Is this true??  I thought the site refused to list guns and such... just consensual transactions. Whats the scoop?

Yes, the site officially refused that AFAIK. Just note that guns were not listed on SR because DPR said the volumes did not justify operating "The Armory" (as the guns section of SR was named), not because of some sort of ethic or moral choice - but anyhow "The Armory" existed on SR for a while, but it seems it was just unprofitable for DPR.

What I understand from the affidavit is that inside the "services" category there was *one* item on sale which was a "HUGE black market contact list", and that list included hitmen contacts among many other things.
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
October 02, 2013, 05:03:36 PM
Page 10 of the complaint claims the site had a section listing hitmen. Is this true??  I thought the site refused to list guns and such... just consensual transactions. Whats the scoop?
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
October 02, 2013, 04:57:44 PM
I guess I will miss my Ritalin  Undecided Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1040
Merit: 1001
October 02, 2013, 04:54:56 PM
Briefly: Ulbricht subscribed to a philosophy that boiled down to "the state is inherently bad and must be overthrown". He explicitly said that was his belief several times in public. Why do you think people tolerate or support the state, as a political institution? It's because we know what the world looks like when the state becomes weak or disappears. It looks like Mexico or Somalia. Not some peaceful, non-violent utopia but a place dominated by men like Ulbricht - people who are quite willing to assassinate anyone who gets in the way of their business empire.

Ah, now we're getting down to business!  You interpret no state as "Somalia".  Well no wonder you don't like ancaps.  

But I ask you, if a lack of a state results in gangs perpetually at war with each other, doesn't that imply a need for a world govt?  After all, without a world govt, the national govts would be at perpetual war with each other.  Now granted, nations do war quite frequently, but what explains the relative peace between first world nations?  There's no supra-national govt to keep the peace, so why isn't there perpetual war?

Look, I know from watching your talks that you're a sharp guy.  But it's apparent that if your argument against anarcho-capitalism is that it by default boils down to gangs at war and Somalia, then you don't know the rich history of scholarship around the topic, and you've not taken the time to ruminate on it.  I hope you do.  
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1134
October 02, 2013, 04:54:12 PM
That's a terrible analogy. Political views are something you deliberately choose and which influence your actions. Race isn't.

I didn't say "he was an anarcho capitalist thus he was obviously a murder". The and a drug dealer part is pretty damn important!
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
October 02, 2013, 04:53:38 PM
Heh. So if I say DPR was an anarcho capitalist and also not a nice guy (two things that are very likely to be true), that's an insult, but calling me an authoritarian is not an insult?

Of course it's an insult. I actually said "authoritarian asshole" IIRC. So, yeah, I wanted to insult you, after you broadly compared ancaps like me with potential murderers. I believed I've manage to control my temper better than you did, though.

EDIT: Once more justusrainver put it better than me, so I'll just quote him:
Now I'll add on "disingenuous" to "authoritarian". Instead of owning up to what you said, you're now trying to obscure the issue by subtly rewriting history to change your quote into something other than what it was.

You didn't say "DPR was A and B", you said "Because DPR was A and B, we shouldn't be surprised of C".

Let's replace B with a different adjective, just to make the bigotry blindingly obvious for all the spectators:

"By the way - I'm amazed at how many people are surprised that a drug dealer with extreme black tendencies turned out to be not a swell guy! Imagine that!"

You'd never dare say something like that in public, because that group isn't an socially acceptable target for bigotry any more, but you're more than willing to smear anarcho-capitalists the same way because you think no one will call you out on it.

Briefly: Ulbricht subscribed to a philosophy that boiled down to "the state is inherently bad and must be overthrown". He explicitly said that was his belief several times in public. Why do you think people tolerate or support the state, as a political institution? It's because we know what the world looks like when the state becomes weak or disappears. It looks like Mexico or Somalia. Not some peaceful, non-violent utopia but a place dominated by men like Ulbricht - people who are quite willing to assassinate anyone who gets in the way of their business empire.

Sigh... I won't derail this rapidly growing topic. But you're just ignorant and should read a bit more on ethics and economics.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
October 02, 2013, 04:51:32 PM
Guys don't believe the assassination story so quickly. According to the official documents nobody seems to have actually been killed or even exist by the alleged names recovered from Silk Road servers, which have been in FBI custody...

That kind of personality seems totally out of character for DPR. I don't know him but his postings show clear thoughtfulness, like his response to the closing of Atlantis, or his posted rules for SR instead of letting it be an "I don't care what you do, just pay me bitcoins" environment. Hardly seems the type to be ruthless about murder. On the other hand the Feds would look good framed that way, like the heroes who shut down this site with illegal (according to US law) drugs from this clearly evil person.

Before you convict DPR keep in mind the assassination target seems not to exist.

If you read we all agree on the fact DPR was scammed, it's pretty much clear on the affidavit. The thing is that it looks like he was willing to commit that murder.

That's what I'm saying people should not be so quick to believe.

Think of it this way. SR had posted rules for behavior. It wasn't an anything goes Wild West environment. That doesn't sound like the kind of site an immoral ruthless, technically skilled by the way, person would set things up. If SR operated exclusively in Amsterdam, for example, where many drugs are legal then it would be hard to say DPR should have been charged with anything other than operating a professional business. It's only the fact that the site clearly challenges the way things are done in the US that is the problem. Isn't it convenient we now find out DPR was such an immoral a-hole? Good thing the feds found his servers before more people got "hit".

I'm saying we only have one side of the story here, that of the feds.

EDIT: that should say some drugs are "tolerated", but not legal in Amsterdam.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
October 02, 2013, 04:50:14 PM
Despite no one here having any way of verifying the truth or falsehood of the allegations, some people are more than happy to to use it to advance their own unrelated agenda. For those people, I doubt the truth actually matters.

Well said and thanks for saying it.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
October 02, 2013, 04:49:54 PM
So if I say DPR was an anarcho capitalist and also not a nice guy (two things that are very likely to be true), that's an insult, but calling me an authoritarian is not an insult? I think that's rather hypocritical.
Now I'll add on "disingenuous" to "authoritarian". Instead of owning up to what you said, you're now trying to obscure the issue by subtly rewriting history to change your quote into something other than what it was.

You didn't say "DPR was A and B", you said "Because DPR was A and B, we shouldn't be surprised of C".

Let's replace B with a different adjective, just to make the bigotry blindingly obvious for all the spectators:

"By the way - I'm amazed at how many people are surprised that a drug dealer with extreme black tendencies turned out to be not a swell guy! Imagine that!"

You'd never dare say something like that in public, because that group isn't an socially acceptable target for bigotry any more, but you're more than willing to smear anarcho-capitalists the same way because you think no one will call you out on it.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1026
In Cryptocoins I Trust
October 02, 2013, 04:46:39 PM
From what I've read on bitcointalk.org there are sites that are comparative to SR on the deep net, yes?
There are many other hidden services that sell drugs. The hidden wiki has a list of most of them.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
October 02, 2013, 04:44:42 PM
Was he? Why do you think we're all smarter than him? He may have well know that he was being scammed and used the hit thing as a bargaining chip to pay only $150K instead of $500K. It's a very considerable difference, after all. Many of you would kill just to get your hands on those $350K he saved Cheesy

I thought that too. The problem with that reasoning is that he'd be trusting the blackmailer not to attempt to blackmail him again in the future.

There's also the possibility of this whole hired murder thing being fake. The US gov is definitely not a trustworthy entity. Maybe they preferred to create this story so that DPR's image is severely tainted, and he cannot present himself in courts as a "peaceful individual" who was "removing violence from drug trade".

All this is just speculation, though.
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009
October 02, 2013, 04:43:56 PM
lmao! TOR is now FBI property.... ERR'BODY GETTIN' SEIZED IN THIS BIACH!!!  Deep net isn't looking so deep now....

There's a theory going around that a large amount of TorNodes are actually run by the NSA.
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 1313
October 02, 2013, 04:42:34 PM
You should read a book called "Three Felonies a Day" which (although US based, applied equally well in the EU, and in fact most of the world) shows how on average a citizen commits (unintentionally) three felonies per day because the of number of laws that have been passed.  Some would say that the politicians are passing these law just for this purpose.

If people are aware of this, it is relatively easy to blackmail someone for one of these felonies and quite difficult to avoid putting yourself in such a position.

:-)

(And I agree with previous posts saying that the methods listed in the legal documents we've seen may just be a cover for the real method of outing him.)


I wouldn't put myself in such a position to start with. Somebody above made some comparisons to Walter White. It's quite similar indeed.
...
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 531
Crypto is King.
October 02, 2013, 04:41:22 PM
From what I've read on bitcointalk.org there are sites that are comparative to SR on the deep net, yes?

Not anymore they're not. One disappeared last month before they got their teeth kicked in and the other lost their biggest seller last week, who will spend some time in a government sponsored hotel.
lmao! TOR is now FBI property.... ERR'BODY GETTIN' SEIZED IN THIS BIACH!!!  Deep net isn't looking so deep now....
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
October 02, 2013, 04:39:01 PM
Heh. So if I say DPR was an anarcho capitalist and also not a nice guy (two things that are very likely to be true), that's an insult, but calling me an authoritarian is not an insult? I think that's rather hypocritical. There are points on the political spectrum between anarchy and authoritarianism you know Wink

Briefly: Ulbricht subscribed to a philosophy that boiled down to "the state is inherently bad and must be overthrown". He explicitly said that was his belief several times in public. Why do you think people tolerate or support the state, as a political institution? It's because we know what the world looks like when the state becomes weak or disappears. It looks like Mexico or Somalia. Not some peaceful, non-violent utopia but a place dominated by men like Ulbricht - people who are quite willing to assassinate anyone who gets in the way of their business empire.
Point is state, fascists and anarchists have become (once more in history) the same monster in the means they use to achieve their goals...
Shit times ahead  Sad
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009
October 02, 2013, 04:38:17 PM
From what I've read on bitcointalk.org there are sites that are comparative to SR on the deep net, yes?

Not anymore they're not. One disappeared last month before they got their teeth kicked in and the other lost their biggest seller last week, who will spend some time in a government sponsored hotel.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
October 02, 2013, 04:37:05 PM
Are you actually stupid enough to believe what the feds tell you?

*cough!...Bitcoin Savings and Trust....cough!*
sr. member
Activity: 465
Merit: 254
October 02, 2013, 04:35:57 PM
How about all the hitman stuff being made up between him and that other dude to prevent other hackers from blackmailing him?

Say you hack the server and you go through all the data and you find those chats about him killing some other dude who tried to black mail him. I imagine that would be a nice deterrent for not trying the same thing.

That would also make the use of no encryption make more sense...
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 531
Crypto is King.
October 02, 2013, 04:35:47 PM
From what I've read on bitcointalk.org there are sites that are comparative to SR on the deep net, yes?
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
October 02, 2013, 04:35:22 PM
The Silk Road forums seems to be not working...

Hmm, I wonder why..  Roll Eyes
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