Terms and condition a must read before signing up any online gambling site - page 4.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on July 17, 2021, 09:26:30 AM

This is not the case (at least in my country and I know that approximately the same norms work in most countries). The company can write anything to the ToS and the user can even agree with this, but this does not change the priority of the current legislation, so that the user can at any time sue the company and challenge any provision of the ToS, regardless of whether he previously agreed with them or not. The final decision is always up to the court.

You can only get this in civilized countries where the legislative have the interest of it's citizens at heart but how about countries filled with selfish and monetized leaders who seek their pocket satisfaction waiting for every single opportunity to extort from their citizens.

I am no saying there are no laws restricting most of this ToS from overriding their clients but some countries aren't just suitable for such implementations because it would be an avenue to make massive returns from the complainant and the defendant without passing any reasonable judgement then decide on whom to favour based on who made the highest offer.

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Quote from: pilosopotasyo on July 18, 2021, 03:28:40 AM

Quote from: tabas on July 18, 2021, 02:37:04 AM

As said, most of them don't allow and for sure there are those that allow it. If a casino allows VPN then for sure they'll allow you to withdraw, there's no connection of usage of VPN and withdrawal and it is only applicable to those casinos that don't allow VPN.
So if they don't allow VPN then that's for sure that they won't allow you to withdraw if you're using VPN as you access the website.

Only a few gambling sites allow the use of VPN so if you are going to use a VPN be sure you read the TOS of the gambling site you are playing about using VPN, much better if you ask the support about the use of VPN, many players are flagged because of VPN, because we all know, not every one can play in a gambling site, they do not allow people from restricted areas to avoid legal issues

You check it if you're a VPN user. That's why it's important to check and read the terms/TOS. If you have no confidence on your reading capability and comprehension.
Yeah, checking and asking through the support will help you.

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Quote from: michellee on July 17, 2021, 09:18:14 PM

Quote from: tabas on July 17, 2021, 05:36:19 PM

Quote from: michellee on July 17, 2021, 10:43:23 AM

Thanks for mentioning VPN as the next thing that we need to know as many casinos will not allowing people to use VPN and only allow them to have one account for one person. Maybe if you be honest to them that you use VPN because your ISP does not allow you to visit a gambling site and allow you, that will not be a problem, but that will depend on their policy. After we know about the rules, we hope we can take care of ourselves by playing gambling without trying to break the rules.

Most casinos don't allow the usage of VPN and that's why you have to be careful in using it. Although some allows it to use but if you're spot on the casino that don't allow it then you know the consequence that you're about to take.
That's why it's important to read even a couple of important lines with the TOS of any casino you sign up and also any other website. Because you'll actually get to see what they're up too including data collection.

Yeah, but maybe you can try to use VPN and play because I guess some of those casinos will allow you just to play gambling. But I am not sure if they will allow you to withdraw the money once you win. Maybe from now on and in the future, maybe most online casinos will use strict rules to prevent people from breaking their rules because those casinos bond with regulation from the licensed regulator and do not want their license repeal. We really need to be very careful.

As said, most of them don't allow and for sure there are those that allow it. If a casino allows VPN then for sure they'll allow you to withdraw, there's no connection of usage of VPN and withdrawal and it is only applicable to those casinos that don't allow VPN.
So if they don't allow VPN then that's for sure that they won't allow you to withdraw if you're using VPN as you access the website.

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Quote from: michellee on July 17, 2021, 09:18:14 PM

Quote from: tabas on July 17, 2021, 05:36:19 PM

Quote from: michellee on July 17, 2021, 10:43:23 AM

Thanks for mentioning VPN as the next thing that we need to know as many casinos will not allowing people to use VPN and only allow them to have one account for one person. Maybe if you be honest to them that you use VPN because your ISP does not allow you to visit a gambling site and allow you, that will not be a problem, but that will depend on their policy. After we know about the rules, we hope we can take care of ourselves by playing gambling without trying to break the rules.

Most casinos don't allow the usage of VPN and that's why you have to be careful in using it. Although some allows it to use but if you're spot on the casino that don't allow it then you know the consequence that you're about to take.
That's why it's important to read even a couple of important lines with the TOS of any casino you sign up and also any other website. Because you'll actually get to see what they're up too including data collection.

Yeah, but maybe you can try to use VPN and play because I guess some of those casinos will allow you just to play gambling. But I am not sure if they will allow you to withdraw the money once you win. Maybe from now on and in the future, maybe most online casinos will use strict rules to prevent people from breaking their rules because those casinos bond with regulation from the licensed regulator and do not want their license repeal. We really need to be very careful.

Well this can be risky because if certain country is not allowed by them, they may allow you to deposit and play but if you win big amount they may ask for KYC. If that happens, they may not let you withdraw because you were from forbidden country and was playing via VPN.

Why take such risks when there are so many other sites with no restrictions ?

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 17, 2021, 06:40:39 PM

I did not say that in every case you should go to court, I just showed that the widespread opinion that the company is omnipotent and it is necessary to fulfill its ToS is nothing more than a myth. As for your confidence that reading ToS will help you a lot, it is very naive. If you have read at least a few ToSs, then you probably noticed that almost each of them has a clause like "the company reserves the right to make any final decision in a disputable situation without explaining the reasons" Wink

Well said!

Quote from: michellee on July 17, 2021, 09:18:14 PM

Yeah, but maybe you can try to use VPN and play because I guess some of those casinos will allow you just to play gambling. But I am not sure if they will allow you to withdraw the money once you win. Maybe from now on and in the future, maybe most online casinos will use strict rules to prevent people from breaking their rules because those casinos bond with regulation from the licensed regulator and do not want their license repeal. We really need to be very careful.

I am using a VPN... only with VPN I can play some providers! I never had any problems with withdrawing, but in my case, for amounts under $2k... I saw some people talk about how problems can appear when someone wins some huge money and wants to withdraw! But until now I didn't win some crazy big amount, so I can't confirm or deny this!

Quote from: Peanutswar on July 17, 2021, 11:36:54 PM

Quote from: btc78 on July 08, 2021, 09:08:02 PM

Back in beginning of my Online gambling playing specially here in crypto gambling ? i am not aware of the importance of the TOS or TOC and i don't even read their rules and regulations.
but when time comes that one of my friends god issues about His account being freeze because of Violation ? i start learning lesson and come to read everything and all the details so i won't miss one for my own safety .
It is our obligation to read first before depositing and play.

I guess this is one of the most important if we are trying to involve in things we don't have any kind of idea. Even in terms of agreement for sure most of us are just trying to scroll all the way down just to meet and click the agree button or the check button always try to make sure your self is not involved in a harm way of your information and data but of course you cannot enter to their platform if you cannot agree on their terms without knowing at the first place they already show their terms.

As KTChampions wrote (look above), it's naive if you think that reading ToS can save you if a casino wish to freeze your account for any reason, maybe just because you are winning big... in the end, this explains everything

Quote

"the company reserves the right to make any final decision in a disputable situation without explaining the reasons"

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Quote from: btc78 on July 08, 2021, 09:08:02 PM

Back in beginning of my Online gambling playing specially here in crypto gambling ? i am not aware of the importance of the TOS or TOC and i don't even read their rules and regulations.
but when time comes that one of my friends god issues about His account being freeze because of Violation ? i start learning lesson and come to read everything and all the details so i won't miss one for my own safety .
It is our obligation to read first before depositing and play.

I guess this is one of the most important if we are trying to involve in things we don't have any kind of idea. Even in terms of agreement for sure most of us are just trying to scroll all the way down just to meet and click the agree button or the check button always try to make sure your self is not involved in a harm way of your information and data but of course you cannot enter to their platform if you cannot agree on their terms without knowing at the first place they already show their terms.

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Quote from: michellee on July 17, 2021, 09:18:14 PM

Quote from: tabas on July 17, 2021, 05:36:19 PM

Quote from: michellee on July 17, 2021, 10:43:23 AM

Thanks for mentioning VPN as the next thing that we need to know as many casinos will not allowing people to use VPN and only allow them to have one account for one person. Maybe if you be honest to them that you use VPN because your ISP does not allow you to visit a gambling site and allow you, that will not be a problem, but that will depend on their policy. After we know about the rules, we hope we can take care of ourselves by playing gambling without trying to break the rules.

Most casinos don't allow the usage of VPN and that's why you have to be careful in using it. Although some allows it to use but if you're spot on the casino that don't allow it then you know the consequence that you're about to take.
That's why it's important to read even a couple of important lines with the TOS of any casino you sign up and also any other website. Because you'll actually get to see what they're up too including data collection.

Yeah, but maybe you can try to use VPN and play because I guess some of those casinos will allow you just to play gambling. But I am not sure if they will allow you to withdraw the money once you win. Maybe from now on and in the future, maybe most online casinos will use strict rules to prevent people from breaking their rules because those casinos bond with regulation from the licensed regulator and do not want their license repeal. We really need to be very careful.

Casinos that have a license are usually stricter in their rules, because they don't want to violate the rules of the regulator. So make it a habit to
read the terms and conditions before deciding to join the casino, lest we regret breaking one of the rules and causing our account to be banned,
even our funds can be frozen by the casino. I've had bad experiences when accessing the casino using a VPN, no problem when registering and
making a deposit, but when going to make a withdrawal can not. This is a lesson for me, to always get used to reading the terms and conditions,
so that this incident does not happen again.

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Quote from: tabas on July 17, 2021, 05:36:19 PM

Quote from: michellee on July 17, 2021, 10:43:23 AM

Thanks for mentioning VPN as the next thing that we need to know as many casinos will not allowing people to use VPN and only allow them to have one account for one person. Maybe if you be honest to them that you use VPN because your ISP does not allow you to visit a gambling site and allow you, that will not be a problem, but that will depend on their policy. After we know about the rules, we hope we can take care of ourselves by playing gambling without trying to break the rules.

Most casinos don't allow the usage of VPN and that's why you have to be careful in using it. Although some allows it to use but if you're spot on the casino that don't allow it then you know the consequence that you're about to take.
That's why it's important to read even a couple of important lines with the TOS of any casino you sign up and also any other website. Because you'll actually get to see what they're up too including data collection.

Yeah, but maybe you can try to use VPN and play because I guess some of those casinos will allow you just to play gambling. But I am not sure if they will allow you to withdraw the money once you win. Maybe from now on and in the future, maybe most online casinos will use strict rules to prevent people from breaking their rules because those casinos bond with regulation from the licensed regulator and do not want their license repeal. We really need to be very careful.

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Quote from: crzy on July 17, 2021, 05:27:38 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 17, 2021, 04:56:07 PM

This is not the case (at least in my country and I know that approximately the same norms work in most countries). The company can write anything to the ToS and the user can even agree with this, but this does not change the priority of the current legislation, so that the user can at any time sue the company and challenge any provision of the ToS, regardless of whether he previously agreed with them or not. The final decision is always up to the court.

I can’t imagine how much time and money you’ll spend on suing a company because of their terms and conditions than to read it for just like a 1 to 2hrs, anyway if its a millions of money then I think it’s worth it.

I don’t know why people are too lazy to read those important details that can save them from trouble, btw that’s the risk they are taking and if something bad happen because of their own mistakes, no one to blame for but yourself.

I did not say that in every case you should go to court, I just showed that the widespread opinion that the company is omnipotent and it is necessary to fulfill its ToS is nothing more than a myth. As for your confidence that reading ToS will help you a lot, it is very naive. If you have read at least a few ToSs, then you probably noticed that almost each of them has a clause like "the company reserves the right to make any final decision in a disputable situation without explaining the reasons" Wink

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Quote from: michellee on July 17, 2021, 10:43:23 AM

Thanks for mentioning VPN as the next thing that we need to know as many casinos will not allowing people to use VPN and only allow them to have one account for one person. Maybe if you be honest to them that you use VPN because your ISP does not allow you to visit a gambling site and allow you, that will not be a problem, but that will depend on their policy. After we know about the rules, we hope we can take care of ourselves by playing gambling without trying to break the rules.

Most casinos don't allow the usage of VPN and that's why you have to be careful in using it. Although some allows it to use but if you're spot on the casino that don't allow it then you know the consequence that you're about to take.
That's why it's important to read even a couple of important lines with the TOS of any casino you sign up and also any other website. Because you'll actually get to see what they're up too including data collection.

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 17, 2021, 04:56:07 PM

Quote from: Lucasgabd on July 17, 2021, 09:26:30 AM

you are right @AmoreJaz
a peson wouldn't be able to complain if they violate the ToS
but ToS makers usually dont help either by making it short and direct to the point, have you checked how long does it take to read, let's say, Facebook ToS?
its really long, like hours.

not sure about the casino ones

This is not the case (at least in my country and I know that approximately the same norms work in most countries). The company can write anything to the ToS and the user can even agree with this, but this does not change the priority of the current legislation, so that the user can at any time sue the company and challenge any provision of the ToS, regardless of whether he previously agreed with them or not. The final decision is always up to the court.

I can’t imagine how much time and money you’ll spend on suing a company because of their terms and conditions than to read it for just like a 1 to 2hrs, anyway if its a millions of money then I think it’s worth it.

I don’t know why people are too lazy to read those important details that can save them from trouble, btw that’s the risk they are taking and if something bad happen because of their own mistakes, no one to blame for but yourself.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on July 17, 2021, 09:26:30 AM

you are right @AmoreJaz
a peson wouldn't be able to complain if they violate the ToS
but ToS makers usually dont help either by making it short and direct to the point, have you checked how long does it take to read, let's say, Facebook ToS?
its really long, like hours.

not sure about the casino ones

This is not the case (at least in my country and I know that approximately the same norms work in most countries). The company can write anything to the ToS and the user can even agree with this, but this does not change the priority of the current legislation, so that the user can at any time sue the company and challenge any provision of the ToS, regardless of whether he previously agreed with them or not. The final decision is always up to the court.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on July 17, 2021, 09:26:30 AM

you are right @AmoreJaz
a peson wouldn't be able to complain if they violate the ToS
but ToS makers usually dont help either by making it short and direct to the point, have you checked how long does it take to read, let's say, Facebook ToS?
its really long, like hours.

not sure about the casino ones

Its obvious that casino terms and condition are more shorter compared to FB which is no brainer or already understandable but you cant really compare apples to oranges since they are different industries.

Terms and conditions is really an important thing for a site to have at least the players do know on what are the prohibitions and rules that do really need to be followed for them not to experience
some headache later on.

It might sound too much on wasting time on reading but its up to someone to read it up.Just go directly with the key points and not necessarily to read the whole context.

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Quote from: Zilon on June 27, 2021, 06:00:18 AM

A whole lot of persons have shared their experience lately how some online casinos tend to frustrate them during withdraws, declining their uploaded certificate s for KYC verification. In my own opinion I would suggest before clicking and accepting any terms and condition given by most of this casinos it's better one analyze what he/she is signing up and understand to what extent one can easily deposit and withdrawal from such sites

Gambling is gradually becoming an occupation mostly now where vertically everything is done digitally and many get their major source of income gambling so it wouldn't be wise if after accumulating series of progressive winnings you find it difficult to withdraw from such sites.

I'm not good at referrals so I don't get blamed if the unexpected occurs in your cause of gambling but I recommend you do thorough research before depositing your hard earned token on any casino to avoid getting your self worked up by the so called casino sites.

Lastly gamble responsibly its better to earn in cents than to loss in dollars get other source of income to complement your gambling so you don't lose out completely on your fund because gambling remains a game of probability and so responsible approach keeps you in check

How about the following, if we get an audio option playing terms and conditions and in turn of our confirmation, a voice confirmation is made and recorded. This would eradicate many just skip reading terms and conditions since they are in paragraphs and in pages. The excitement just pushes oneself to just rush through sign ins and registration. Just take time and get familiar with concern site's terms and conditions before going for sign ups.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on July 17, 2021, 09:26:30 AM

you are right @AmoreJaz
a peson wouldn't be able to complain if they violate the ToS
but ToS makers usually dont help either by making it short and direct to the point, have you checked how long does it take to read, ~
not sure about the casino ones

It means you are not in gambling and never checked the terms and conditions page of any casino? T&C is the most important part of a gambling sites. There is no reason to make it short. Gambler use to complain against casino by ignoring the facts of T&C. If casino makes it shorter then the gambler will get more opportunities to blame casino. However, it won't take much time to check the terms and conditions of any casino. Even you don't need to check the whole details of T&C page, just check the important part of it. As example, restricted countries, withdrawal information, VPN usage.

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Quote from: TimeTeller on July 17, 2021, 06:13:20 AM

This is very right. It is better to play on casinos that have active thread here in the forum.
Because in case you got problem, it is easy to reach out to them.
Of course, they don't want their players to be waiting in vain just to resolve simple issues.
Because if that happens, it will be a trouble for them as the player may create noise about the unresolved issue.
The major points in ToS that everyone should look at are what michellee suggested, kyc requirements, min depo/withdrawal, fees.
If I may add, the use of VPN as some casinos are not allowing the use of it. So you may want to confirm it from them if you are using VPN.
Some are accepting deposits even if you used VPN but when it comes to withdrawal, they may froze your account because of VPN issue.
So it is better to clarify it from them so you won't be surprised once you need to get out of your funds.

Thanks for mentioning VPN as the next thing that we need to know as many casinos will not allowing people to use VPN and only allow them to have one account for one person. Maybe if you be honest to them that you use VPN because your ISP does not allow you to visit a gambling site and allow you, that will not be a problem, but that will depend on their policy. After we know about the rules, we hope we can take care of ourselves by playing gambling without trying to break the rules.

Quote from: BuNga_cute on July 17, 2021, 06:47:40 AM

I'm sure most gamblers are lazy to read the terms and conditions, because they are usually quite long if we have to read all of them.
So I agree that at least we can use the search feature to find the points we need, so there's no need to read all the terms and conditions.
But if we have free time, it is better to read all the terms and conditions, I'm afraid maybe that there are important points that might miss.
I also prefer gambling sites that have an ANN thread on this forum, besides we can directly ask the things we want to know, and it makes
it easier for me to judge the gambling site is worth using or not.

Yes, you are right hahaha Grin

We come to the site, register an account, start deposit, start playing some games, and winning some money. After that, we want to withdraw the money and boom, and we are in trouble because we do not know what their rule is. Although the rule seems similar to most gambling sites out there, there will be a difference from each gambling site. At least, if the gambling site has an ANN thread on here, we can ask something that we do not understand directly and I am sure we do not have to wait for a long time to get the answer. But still, we need to be patient for a while because we are not the only members on their site with a problem.

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you are right @AmoreJaz
a peson wouldn't be able to complain if they violate the ToS
but ToS makers usually dont help either by making it short and direct to the point, have you checked how long does it take to read, let's say, Facebook ToS?
its really long, like hours.

not sure about the casino ones

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Quote from: BuNga_cute on July 17, 2021, 06:47:40 AM

I'm sure most gamblers are lazy to read the terms and conditions, because they are usually quite long if we have to read all of them.
So I agree that at least we can use the search feature to find the points we need, so there's no need to read all the terms and conditions.
But if we have free time, it is better to read all the terms and conditions, I'm afraid maybe that there are important points that might miss.
I also prefer gambling sites that have an ANN thread on this forum, besides we can directly ask the things we want to know, and it makes
it easier for me to judge the gambling site is worth using or not.

Yes, I think one of the dilemmas here is if it is right to make the terms and conditions more precise to at least shorten the content and encourage more people to read it. Although, one point that must be considered if there will be no missed information by doing so. What do you think guys?

ANN threads are definitely helpful because these helps people to comprehend things easily while also having direct communication with the community and the gambling site managers.

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Quote from: michellee on July 17, 2021, 05:49:59 AM

Quote from: TheGreatPython on July 17, 2021, 01:55:29 AM

Quote from: Rruchi man on July 16, 2021, 09:03:44 PM

I really like to read the terms and conditions but truly it is usually presented in a manner that does not support user friendliness so it is difficult for me to settle down and read the whole terms and conditions properly. To save myself from the drama, what i do is that i only use gambling platforms and sites that i have friends who have used it and got paid there hassle free, that is, i use gambling sites only by word of mouth recommendation or referral, not trying to be the first among my friends who i know gamble more than i do to discover a new gambling site.

That is what most of us are doing actually, we play at sites we know are here for a long time and even if there might be a problem, we expect the casino to solve it peacefully. I agree that reading all the minute details is really hard because neither we have the patience nor the exact understanding of the terms & conditions. Although I would suggest reading the terms around the KYC procedure at least, to avoid problems later on if you win something significant.

And maybe when you have free time and are playing games, you can slowly read the terms and conditions like reading few points and then back to gambling, this way you can read it without getting bored.

I am sure that will help us stay away from making a mistake or break their rule because we do not want to see our account will get ban by them. Maybe we can skip reading all of the terms and conditions but we only need to search the KYC, the minimal deposit and withdrawal and how much the fee is. If we do not understand something that is written on the term and conditions, we can ask to support system and I am sure they will guide us and give the right answer.

If the gambling site has an ANN thread here, we can directly ask them and that is why I prefer to use the gambling sites from here to playing gambling because we can easily contact them if we got trouble.

I'm sure most gamblers are lazy to read the terms and conditions, because they are usually quite long if we have to read all of them.
So I agree that at least we can use the search feature to find the points we need, so there's no need to read all the terms and conditions.
But if we have free time, it is better to read all the terms and conditions, I'm afraid maybe that there are important points that might miss.
I also prefer gambling sites that have an ANN thread on this forum, besides we can directly ask the things we want to know, and it makes
it easier for me to judge the gambling site is worth using or not.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on July 16, 2021, 09:03:44 PM

I really like to read the terms and conditions but truly it is usually presented in a manner that does not support user friendliness so it is difficult for me to settle down and read the whole terms and conditions properly.

They make the writing there so many that you can stay all day for just reading an agreement and some words are ambiguous for a normal person to understand and interpret except a lawyer. This is why some people don't find time to read such but sign up to it.

Quote from: Rruchi man on July 16, 2021, 09:03:44 PM

To save myself from the drama, what i do is that i only use gambling platforms and sites that i have friends who have used it and got paid there hassle free, that is, i use gambling sites only by word of mouth recommendation or referral, not trying to be the first among my friends who i know gamble more than i do to discover a new gambling site.

This is a good idea and I also do that. I feel comfortable to play where someone I know is already playing, I just have to ask for the rules from them and not to read all that was written.

Topic: Terms and condition a must read before signing up any online gambling site - page 4. (Read 2325 times)