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Topic: The UFC Info and Prediction Thread - page 3. (Read 97456 times)

legendary
Activity: 2478
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November 22, 2024, 06:10:12 PM
You saying Fig has a higher chance to win the match than what the line is showing?  Dunno...  Fig might steal the early rounds with more activity but as this is a 5 rounder, Yan will pick up the pace and win the last couple of rounds.  So I guess this is a live betting opportunity for Yan?  Grin Grin

Yeap, Fig can win this. If Petr usually looses his first rounds, and Fig, as a Brazilian and black belt in bjj uses Sterling tactics of takedown and control, he might win by slip decision. In addition Fig is on 3 win streak and can knock people down.

Is this really Charles? I don't see any delivery bag on him, he looks more like a typical Brazilian motorbike purse snatcher  Grin

Yeap, that is him. In his interviews he told that he has worken on pizza delivery to earn for gym and for life. So there is a high chance that he is on a way to work (or gym). Otherwise who would ride for fun in rain  Grin
full member
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November 22, 2024, 11:56:50 AM
Have you guys discussed the UFC 310 Rakhmonov Vs Garry yet? I wasn't around when it was announced.
Anyhow, it's official now. I think it's a decent match-up, both are undefeated (18-0 and 15-0, respectively), one is considered one of the best prospects and material for a long-reigning champion, the other is insufferable cunt that everyone wants to see beaten. Will Shavkat give MMA fans what they want? Bookies seem to be thinking so, as he's a x1.30 favourite.

And I see Vicente Luque Vs Nick Diaz got cancelled, not sure why.
It was a good match. I saw a poster like this the other day but it wasn't official, so this one is an official match.
Both fighters are undefeated. One of them will lose their undefeated match.
Shavkat probably won't be the one to lose this match but it will still be an interesting match. 1.30 odds bookmakers haven't given Garry any chance. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1561
November 22, 2024, 11:44:27 AM
(...) Chandler manages to attract viewers and fans, I start to think that he is overestimated. Even though his fights are thrilling to watch, I dont remember seeing something extraordinary in his performance.

Chandler is a great example that the showmanship and an entertaining factor can take you further in the UFC than actual results. Many of his fights are what I call victorious losses, despite the negative outcome, he's remembered in a positive light. i.e. most fans will only remember Chandler slamming Oliveira twice at the end of the fight forgetting about his loss.

He now lost 4 out of his last 5 fights (only winning a total of 2 in the UFC) but even after the last loss he will still be highly valued. He's ranked 7th at the moment and I don't think they will match him up with anyone ranked below him. I'll be guessing he'll be fighting again with either Dan Hooker or Justin Gaethje. Chandler Vs either of them would guarantee a good show.

Friday portion of fun. Will you scam this pizza delivery guy for tips? Cheesy



Is this really Charles? I don't see any delivery bag on him, he looks more like a typical Brazilian motorbike purse snatcher  Grin
legendary
Activity: 3976
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Life, Love and Laughter...
November 22, 2024, 09:00:37 AM
Anyway, who among you guys are excited for the next event?  I just want two match ups here, the main event with Yan vs Fig and Oezdemir vs Ulberg.  I think I'll just parlay Yan and Ulberg but I have a feeling Fig could steal some rounds and will prolly do enough to win via decision.  Dunno tho...  What do you guys think?  Yan at 1.29 and Fig at 3.50 seems too wide.

Yan is x1.33 favourite and I think rightfully so. He may have lost 3 out of his last 5 fights, but he lost in a good style against very solid fighters (+ I think he was robbed in the O'Malley fight). He's also younger than Figueiredo (31 Vs 36), so Yan should have some cardio advantage if they are to go for a full 5 rounds.
The problem is it's been a while since the last time Yan managed to finish his opponent (2020), so it's very likely it will go to the judges where anything is possible.

And yeah.  And it's a 5 rounder.  If it's just three rounds and at these lines, I think Fig would be value.  But for 5 rounds, it's prolly all Yan at R4 and R5.  Fig's cardio kinda sucks.


Yan corner sucks Cheesy That guy, Artem Levin is his striking coach. That guy has appeared in Petrs camp since second fight against Sterling and Petr has been loosing since then, or his striking tactics since then became worse. On Russian mma forums it is discussed, that Levin is the reason why Yan isnt dominating in striking anymore. Because during fight Levin is silent. He does not give any hints, nor make corrections in tactics. That is why we see in recent fights, that Petr is doing same thing over and over again: lose first rounds but then takes last.  

First rounds Petr is doing according to game plan and 50/50 win or lose them.
Middle of he fight: Petr should change something, but nobody says him what to do.
Last rounds: takes them.

That was vs O'Malley, Sterling, Yadong. Same thing. He always looses start and middle of a fight, than thanks to character takes last rounds. Same thing will be vs Figueiredo, lose first two rounds, takes rest.

You saying Fig has a higher chance to win the match than what the line is showing?  Dunno...  Fig might steal the early rounds with more activity but as this is a 5 rounder, Yan will pick up the pace and win the last couple of rounds.  So I guess this is a live betting opportunity for Yan?  Grin Grin

Here are the weigh in results...  I can't find the weigh vids for some reason so if anybody sees it, please post.  Tyvm.

Petr Yan (135.5) vs Deiveson Figueiredo (135)
Yan Xiaonan (116) vs Tabatha Ricci (115.5)
Song Kenan (171) vs Muslim Salikhov (170.5)
Wang Cong (126) vs Gabriella Fernandes (126)
Volkan Oezdemir (206) vs Carlos Ulberg (205.5)
Ozzy Diaz (205) vs Zhang Mingyang (205)
Balgyn Jenisuly (135) vs Su Young You (135.5)
Dong Hoon Choi (125.5) vs Kiru Sahota (125)
Xiaocan Feng (115) vs Ming Shi (115.5)
Carlos Hernandez (125.5) vs Nyamjargal Tumendemberel (125.5)
Lone’er Kavanagh (126) vs Jose Ochoa (125)
Quang Le (136) vs Xiao Long (135)
Hayisaer Maheshate (155.5) vs Nikolas Motta (155)

Have you guys discussed the UFC 310 Rakhmonov Vs Garry yet? I wasn't around when it was announced.
Anyhow, it's official now. I think it's a decent match-up, both are undefeated (18-0 and 15-0, respectively), one is considered one of the best prospects and material for a long-reigning champion, the other is insufferable cunt that everyone wants to see beaten. Will Shavkat give MMA fans what they want? Bookies seem to be thinking so, as he's a x1.30 favourite.

And I see Vicente Luque Vs Nick Diaz got cancelled, not sure why.

Yeah been meaning to post that...  It's a dream come true.  Finally we see somebody beat Garry's face in.  Cheesy Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1492
November 22, 2024, 03:10:13 AM
Have you guys discussed the UFC 310 Rakhmonov Vs Garry yet? I wasn't around when it was announced.

Nope, not yet. I think we havent spoken and discussed everything about UFC 309 Cheesy If main event was kind boring and predictive, then I think we havent discussed at all co-main event. Oliveira vs Chandler. Even though Chandler manages to attract viewers and fans, I start to think that he is overestimated. Even though his fights are thrilling to watch, I dont remember seeing something extraordinary in his performance.

Friday portion of fun. Will you scam this pizza delivery guy for tips? Cheesy

legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1561
November 21, 2024, 05:19:21 PM
Have you guys discussed the UFC 310 Rakhmonov Vs Garry yet? I wasn't around when it was announced.
Anyhow, it's official now. I think it's a decent match-up, both are undefeated (18-0 and 15-0, respectively), one is considered one of the best prospects and material for a long-reigning champion, the other is insufferable cunt that everyone wants to see beaten. Will Shavkat give MMA fans what they want? Bookies seem to be thinking so, as he's a x1.30 favourite.

And I see Vicente Luque Vs Nick Diaz got cancelled, not sure why.
hero member
Activity: 2800
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November 21, 2024, 01:16:35 PM
Anyway, who among you guys are excited for the next event?  I just want two match ups here, the main event with Yan vs Fig and Oezdemir vs Ulberg.  I think I'll just parlay Yan and Ulberg but I have a feeling Fig could steal some rounds and will prolly do enough to win via decision.  Dunno tho...  What do you guys think?  Yan at 1.29 and Fig at 3.50 seems too wide.

Yan is x1.33 favourite and I think rightfully so. He may have lost 3 out of his last 5 fights, but he lost in a good style against very solid fighters (+ I think he was robbed in the O'Malley fight). He's also younger than Figueiredo (31 Vs 36), so Yan should have some cardio advantage if they are to go for a full 5 rounds.
The problem is it's been a while since the last time Yan managed to finish his opponent (2020), so it's very likely it will go to the judges where anything is possible.

And yeah.  And it's a 5 rounder.  If it's just three rounds and at these lines, I think Fig would be value.  But for 5 rounds, it's prolly all Yan at R4 and R5.  Fig's cardio kinda sucks.


Yan corner sucks Cheesy That guy, Artem Levin is his striking coach. That guy has appeared in Petrs camp since second fight against Sterling and Petr has been loosing since then, or his striking tactics since then became worse. On Russian mma forums it is discussed, that Levin is the reason why Yan isnt dominating in striking anymore. Because during fight Levin is silent. He does not give any hints, nor make corrections in tactics. That is why we see in recent fights, that Petr is doing same thing over and over again: lose first rounds but then takes last.  

First rounds Petr is doing according to game plan and 50/50 win or lose them.
Middle of he fight: Petr should change something, but nobody says him what to do.
Last rounds: takes them.

That was vs O'Malley, Sterling, Yadong. Same thing. He always looses start and middle of a fight, than thanks to character takes last rounds. Same thing will be vs Figueiredo, lose first two rounds, takes rest.

It's probably going to be a 5 round fight like they said above. Yan is hard to takedown and Figgy can also box.
Maybe they are trying to impress the Chinese audience since Wang Cong is becoming a celebrity, she could be the next Weili to dominate women's flyweight. They waste these great matches in FN.

Nice to add her to the parlay for fun though. Petr Yan, Wang Cong, Song Kenan and Carlos Ulberg. Fight schedule could be a reason not able to watch.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1492
November 21, 2024, 07:30:20 AM
Anyway, who among you guys are excited for the next event?  I just want two match ups here, the main event with Yan vs Fig and Oezdemir vs Ulberg.  I think I'll just parlay Yan and Ulberg but I have a feeling Fig could steal some rounds and will prolly do enough to win via decision.  Dunno tho...  What do you guys think?  Yan at 1.29 and Fig at 3.50 seems too wide.

Yan is x1.33 favourite and I think rightfully so. He may have lost 3 out of his last 5 fights, but he lost in a good style against very solid fighters (+ I think he was robbed in the O'Malley fight). He's also younger than Figueiredo (31 Vs 36), so Yan should have some cardio advantage if they are to go for a full 5 rounds.
The problem is it's been a while since the last time Yan managed to finish his opponent (2020), so it's very likely it will go to the judges where anything is possible.

And yeah.  And it's a 5 rounder.  If it's just three rounds and at these lines, I think Fig would be value.  But for 5 rounds, it's prolly all Yan at R4 and R5.  Fig's cardio kinda sucks.


Yan corner sucks Cheesy That guy, Artem Levin is his striking coach. That guy has appeared in Petrs camp since second fight against Sterling and Petr has been loosing since then, or his striking tactics since then became worse. On Russian mma forums it is discussed, that Levin is the reason why Yan isnt dominating in striking anymore. Because during fight Levin is silent. He does not give any hints, nor make corrections in tactics. That is why we see in recent fights, that Petr is doing same thing over and over again: lose first rounds but then takes last.  

First rounds Petr is doing according to game plan and 50/50 win or lose them.
Middle of he fight: Petr should change something, but nobody says him what to do.
Last rounds: takes them.

That was vs O'Malley, Sterling, Yadong. Same thing. He always looses start and middle of a fight, than thanks to character takes last rounds. Same thing will be vs Figueiredo, lose first two rounds, takes rest.
legendary
Activity: 3976
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Life, Love and Laughter...
November 21, 2024, 06:50:46 AM
^  I don't get the duck reference.  Why is Jones called a duck again?  Is it cos he has a gut now?  Lol.  

Because he's DUCKing Tom. That's all.

Anyway, who among you guys are excited for the next event?  I just want two match ups here, the main event with Yan vs Fig and Oezdemir vs Ulberg.  I think I'll just parlay Yan and Ulberg but I have a feeling Fig could steal some rounds and will prolly do enough to win via decision.  Dunno tho...  What do you guys think?  Yan at 1.29 and Fig at 3.50 seems too wide.

Yan is x1.33 favourite and I think rightfully so. He may have lost 3 out of his last 5 fights, but he lost in a good style against very solid fighters (+ I think he was robbed in the O'Malley fight). He's also younger than Figueiredo (31 Vs 36), so Yan should have some cardio advantage if they are to go for a full 5 rounds.
The problem is it's been a while since the last time Yan managed to finish his opponent (2020), so it's very likely it will go to the judges where anything is possible.

OOOOHHH...  Rofl.  That's funny.  

And yeah.  And it's a 5 rounder.  If it's just three rounds and at these lines, I think Fig would be value.  But for 5 rounds, it's prolly all Yan at R4 and R5.  Fig's cardio kinda sucks.

I think I'm gonna do different parlays with Yan as the common denominator.  Grin

Anyway other guys I'm leaning on are Motta, Zhang Mingyang, Song Kenan and Yan Xiaonan.  

UFC Free Fight:  Petr Yan vs Urijah Faber
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m19FwyMysJo

UFC Free Fight:  Deiveson Figueiredo vs Marlon Vera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFJU5dgjlbA
sr. member
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November 21, 2024, 01:32:56 AM
It seemed to me like Bones was going to give Tom the shot everyone wants him to have. I think the whole duck thing is a negotiation tactic. Jones even seemed to hint after his last win that he was going to talk to Dana and give the people what they want soon. The man just wants a massive payday on his way out.
Jones is an anti-hero and he doesn't care about the morals and desires of some UFC fans because he only cares about himself. On the other hand it seems like Jones' fans know his sneaky nature. The fight against Miocic is 99% an easy win for Jones. But he just wants to be able to claim to be the GOAT who beat another GOAT. After this fight it seems like he will fight Pereira. Chama has a lot of fans with his unique character. And for now Pereira is still weak on the ground. This is the same weakness that Gane has. If Jones chooses an easier opponent then it is Pereira. But if suddenly Jones wants to surprise and negotiate a bigger payday for himself then a fight with Aspinall is what everyone wants right now.
hero member
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November 20, 2024, 11:36:49 PM
Anyway, who among you guys are excited for the next event?  I just want two match ups here, the main event with Yan vs Fig and Oezdemir vs Ulberg.  I think I'll just parlay Yan and Ulberg but I have a feeling Fig could steal some rounds and will prolly do enough to win via decision.  Dunno tho...  What do you guys think?  Yan at 1.29 and Fig at 3.50 seems too wide.
Of course Yan and Ulberg are the favorites and they have the edge on paper over their respective opponents and the possibility of Figueiredo being able to steal points from few rounds to get decision victory is also very small because Yan is much more aggressive and he will not give Figueiredo the chance to have an advantage even for just one round.
For Oezdemir vs Ulberg the bookies give odds of @2.90 for Oezdemir and @1.39 for Ulberg, in this fight I think there will be surprise with Ulberg winning faster by KO.
donator
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November 20, 2024, 08:27:09 PM
It seemed to me like Bones was going to give Tom the shot everyone wants him to have. I think the whole duck thing is a negotiation tactic. Jones even seemed to hint after his last win that he was going to talk to Dana and give the people what they want soon. The man just wants a massive payday on his way out.
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1561
November 20, 2024, 07:26:12 PM
^  I don't get the duck reference.  Why is Jones called a duck again?  Is it cos he has a gut now?  Lol.  

Because he's DUCKing Tom. That's all.

Anyway, who among you guys are excited for the next event?  I just want two match ups here, the main event with Yan vs Fig and Oezdemir vs Ulberg.  I think I'll just parlay Yan and Ulberg but I have a feeling Fig could steal some rounds and will prolly do enough to win via decision.  Dunno tho...  What do you guys think?  Yan at 1.29 and Fig at 3.50 seems too wide.

Yan is x1.33 favourite and I think rightfully so. He may have lost 3 out of his last 5 fights, but he lost in a good style against very solid fighters (+ I think he was robbed in the O'Malley fight). He's also younger than Figueiredo (31 Vs 36), so Yan should have some cardio advantage if they are to go for a full 5 rounds.
The problem is it's been a while since the last time Yan managed to finish his opponent (2020), so it's very likely it will go to the judges where anything is possible.
legendary
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Life, Love and Laughter...
November 20, 2024, 07:06:54 AM
^  I don't get the duck reference.  Why is Jones called a duck again?  Is it cos he has a gut now?  Lol.  

Anyway, who among you guys are excited for the next event?  I just want two match ups here, the main event with Yan vs Fig and Oezdemir vs Ulberg.  I think I'll just parlay Yan and Ulberg but I have a feeling Fig could steal some rounds and will prolly do enough to win via decision.  Dunno tho...  What do you guys think?  Yan at 1.29 and Fig at 3.50 seems too wide.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1492
November 20, 2024, 05:15:03 AM



Lol, quack-quack. I imagined Bones talking with Donald Duck voice Cheesy

Btw, we havent discussed gloves choice on UFC 309 Cheesy Why there were no golden gloves, but everyone wore old black gloves? Because Bones asked for them (to make eye-poking more easy) and UFC agreed to that?

Here is an article about it Dana White explains decision to bring back old gloves before UFC 309. I find it suspicious, that they took decision to bring old gloves back exactly when Bones was having a fight Cheesy KO ratio excuse did not work. As there were only 2 KO's by punches on UFC 309, and for example week before that on UFC Fight Night: Magny vs. Prates 4 KO's and 1 TKO with old golden gloves Cheesy
legendary
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November 19, 2024, 05:16:41 PM
Tom Aspinall has a YT channel.  Go watch his 309 video.  He kept filming til after the event when he was still around the arena waiting for Dana White and the top brass of the UFC.  After the meeting and the way the video ended, it looks like Jones vs Aspinall is next.  

Aspinall said 'success'.  So I guess we'll see it happen at international fight week next summer.  Wink  I'm gonna bet on whoever is gonna be the underdog.  Grin

Yup, I've seen it and I took it as the fight will happen. But who knows, maybe it's just Dana saying he will try to make it happen, but it'll be down to Jon to sign the contract or not.

Assuming Jon will stick to his word and not retire, he has only 2 options: fight Tom, as he should, or move back down to the light heavyweight to try to win his old belt back from Pereira. I don't think Pereira moving up to the heavyweight is a viable option, as Jones would have to vacate the belt which would make him look really bad and would reduce the prestige of such fight.

I hope they'll get things moving quickly and that we won't have to wait till the summer or later to see them in action. Tom is in his prime and should be fighting at least 2-3 times a year if his goal is to build a solid legacy. He has last fought in July and a year in between the fights is a long time.
hero member
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November 19, 2024, 03:01:17 PM
...

I think Jones is as smart as he is a good fighter. He said he wanted more money to fight Aspinall and he made a remarkable argument... However, Aspinall deserved this fight as the interim belt holder. So, I think Jones preferred trash talk instead of fighting Aspinall in the octagon. Anyway, maybe that's an success and Jones has achieved that too...

By the way, Jones continued to mock the whole controversy by changing his social media profile to a duck wearing a belt...


I think he's trying to look like he doesn't care about the criticism against him...

UFC matchmaker sure would agree Jone vs Aspinall should happen, Dana would agree as well but it seems like Dana doesn't want that to happen. We saw him force someone to fight another he can even make a fight on short notice, more than likely it's not just Jones who decides not to fight Aspinall.

Even if he insists on fighting Pereira, I think it may not also happen. But who knows. If he can get a huge pay when Jones vs Pereira is hyped, I think Jones would prefer this fight and then retire.
 
legendary
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November 19, 2024, 10:12:12 AM
...

I think Jones is as smart as he is a good fighter. He said he wanted more money to fight Aspinall and he made a remarkable argument... However, Aspinall deserved this fight as the interim belt holder. So, I think Jones preferred trash talk instead of fighting Aspinall in the octagon. Anyway, maybe that's an success and Jones has achieved that too...

By the way, Jones continued to mock the whole controversy by changing his social media profile to a duck wearing a belt...


I think he's trying to look like he doesn't care about the criticism against him...
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
November 19, 2024, 07:22:43 AM
Jones Vs Stipe - as expected. Some say Jones looked a bit slowish but I think he did really good. You could tell he wasn't rushing and wanted the fight to last for at least few rounds, if he was to step on the gas pedal early, he would've finished Stipe in rd 1. As for Stipe, to nobody's surprise, he isn't the guy he used to be. His age and long break took their toll. He had a great career and it was a dream last fight.

No official announcement as of yet, but from what Dana, Tom, and partially Jon all said post-fight, we will almost definitely see Jones Vs Aspinall next (unless Jones wants too much or decides to retire). And that's good news.


Tom Aspinall has a YT channel.  Go watch his 309 video.  He kept filming til after the event when he was still around the arena waiting for Dana White and the top brass of the UFC.  After the meeting and the way the video ended, it looks like Jones vs Aspinall is next.  

Aspinall said 'success'.  So I guess we'll see it happen at international fight week next summer.  Wink  I'm gonna bet on whoever is gonna be the underdog.  Grin

I like how Dana avoided those sharp corner in Aspinall vs Bones next fight Cheesy On one hand it is yes they are fighting, and on the other he can always say that is how he see situation, but match makers and fighter performance decide who fights who next Cheesy And if I was Aspinall, I would not be so happy about all that and call it success. It is a success but when he is fighting Bones? next summer? In a year? Wait till Bones finally decides to fight. It can last for years. And he would turn in Chandler, who was waiting for Conor for years. Depends on what contract they both will sign. With known opponent and date, or only agreement to fight.

Years before Jones decides to fight?  Lol.  Well if Jones delays the division then the UFC will strip Jones off his belt and officially make Aspinall the title holder of HW.  What else could they do..?

But overall, all the things we're seeing now are all smoke and mirrors from what's really happening behind the scenes.  I think they're def fighting at the international fight week.  That's around June...  So that's 7 months from now.  I think it's perfect timing imho.

Here's the roster for the next event...

Date:  Saturday, Nov 23
Main Card (PPV):  6:00am EST
Preliminary Card (ESPN/ESPN+):  3:00am EST
Venue:  Galaxy Arena, Macau



Main Card (PPV)
Petr Yan vs Deiveson Figueiredo            
Yan Xiaonan vs Tabatha Ricci            
Song Kenan vs Muslim Salikhov         
Wang Cong vs Gabriella Fernandes            
Volkan Oezdemir vs Carlos Ulberg            
Zhang Mingyang vs Ozzy Diaz

Preliminary Card (ESPN/ESPN+)
Xie Bin vs Zhu Kangjie         
Baergeng Jieleyisi vs You Su-young      
Kiru Singh Sahota vs Choi Dong-hun      
Shi Ming vs Feng Xiaocan      
Nyamjargal Tumendemberel vs Carlos Hernandez            
Lone'er Kavanagh vs Jose Ochoa            
Xiao Long vs Quang Le            
Maheshate Hayisaer vs Nikolas Motta
hero member
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November 19, 2024, 06:49:45 AM
Yes, even though he doesn't look healthy.
I didn't say he doesn't look healthy, no, he looks very healthy from the outside but we don't know what's happening inside but that's not our interest at the moment. By the way, what I'm saying is that gaining weight is not healthy, he is in a great shape and if he gains weight, I believe that it will be harder for him to cut because with weight gain and loss, metabolism gets struck.

No official announcement as of yet, but from what Dana, Tom, and partially Jon all said post-fight, we will almost definitely see Jones Vs Aspinall next (unless Jones wants too much or decides to retire). And that's good news.

He won't retire, he said it after the fight that he doesn't plan to retire and if he retires after announcing of Tom Aspinal - Jon Jones, it will be a huge strike on his reputation and the GOAT status. He has no other chance but to fight Tom Aspinal.

And for Bones, why try to make fight last many rounds. There is always a chance of a lucky punch, judges can give warning for low activity, Bones can accidentally injure himself (lol, remember how Ortega injured his feet during warm out jumps before the fight, or Chris Barnett recently did the same on UFC 308).
Because DANA wants money. Jones's last fight was very boring, he finished the guy in a minute, that's not what fans come for. Fans want to see lots of rounds and lots of punches. Imagine paying a thousands dollar to see a fight that lasts some second? That's a huge disappointment for a fan.
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