UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread - page 847.

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Quote from: kawetsriyanto on January 07, 2021, 07:31:43 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Real Madrid is the same. They are much more dependent on Benjama.

Real Madrid isn't really the same like Barcelona. Real Madrid doesn't depend too much on Benzema. Real Madrid looks depending on Benzema right now because other young strikers still cannot play with their best performance. I think Real Madrid needs another top striker. If they have another top striker, I believe Real doesn't depend on Benzema anymore.

For me, the crucial players in Real Madrid aren't Benzema but those 3 best midfielders of Real Madrid (Casemiro-Kroos-Modric). If they cannot play together, Real Madrid will be a bit difficult to take the ball possessions.

Real Madrid always had its focus on the forward players and historically has had some of the best strikers like Raoul Gonzalez,Cristiano Ronaldo and a few others.Nowadays though I agree it is more focused on the midfield as it is there where games are won now.They have classy names like Kroos and Modric and I think they can play together without problems.However this is not enough to win the Champions,they need a better striker than Benzema for this.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Real Madrid is the same. They are much more dependent on Benjama.

Real Madrid isn't really the same like Barcelona. Real Madrid doesn't depend too much on Benzema. Real Madrid looks depending on Benzema right now because other young strikers still cannot play with their best performance. I think Real Madrid needs another top striker. If they have another top striker, I believe Real doesn't depend on Benzema anymore.

For me, the crucial players in Real Madrid aren't Benzema but those 3 best midfielders of Real Madrid (Casemiro-Kroos-Modric). If they cannot play together, Real Madrid will be a bit difficult to take the ball possessions.

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I think the most exciting draw will be Barcelona-PSG. Barcelona are having in-team problems this season and it seems Messi will definitely leave the club this summer. But they have a nice 7-match form in the league now. PSG are having a quite good season. Neymar is still injured and it is not known when he will come back according to transfermarkt. I think PSG have much better players and they are more powerful team than Barcelona. Even Messi can't save his team here. I think PSG will definitely eliminate Barcelona.

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Quote from: babo on January 07, 2021, 05:26:54 AM

Quote from: Iranus on January 04, 2021, 02:02:47 PM

I don't think Juventus will win against Milan. Milan is very stable team. And they are able to win against any tough opponent. On the other hand, you will not see any continuity in the Juventus team's performance. Even in the Champions League, they did not perform well in the beginning. I bet for Milan. I'm sure Ibra won't disappoint me.

Yeah, Milan will win.. but sometime the football is strange

great game for me 1 - 3 mean 4 goals and many fun

honestly i would never have bet for juventus
in any case, I remain of the opinion that Milan can win the Scudetto in Italy and not Juventus (in %)
Milan is a much more solid team at the moment

i'm not big fan of Milan, but i'm honest man

Juventus don't have their good form like previous seasons so I would also bet for Milan.

It would also good to see if some other team will be the champion of the Italian Legaue.

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Quote from: kassex on January 07, 2021, 03:14:52 AM

The strength of Bayern is more team play than other teams in the Champions League. In other teams the quality of the game depends on a couple of players. Barcelona-Messi, Real Madrid, Ramos, Cross. Closer in spirit to Bayern is Atletico Madrid.

Bayern Munich is not dependent on any particular player. All the players of the team perform their duties properly from their own position. This is the reason that Bayern are stronger and more stable than any other team. Every player from defense to forward is suitable for his own position.

Correct and that's something most team don't have. They have just a few good players and that's it. When such players is out of form or injuried the whole team collaps.

Just compared it with Ajax few seasons back. They didn't had any worldclass players but some decent players but they played like a team and reached the semi finals.

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Quote from: Iranus on January 04, 2021, 02:02:47 PM

I don't think Juventus will win against Milan. Milan is very stable team. And they are able to win against any tough opponent. On the other hand, you will not see any continuity in the Juventus team's performance. Even in the Champions League, they did not perform well in the beginning. I bet for Milan. I'm sure Ibra won't disappoint me.

Yeah, Milan will win.. but sometime the football is strange

great game for me 1 - 3 mean 4 goals and many fun

honestly i would never have bet for juventus
in any case, I remain of the opinion that Milan can win the Scudetto in Italy and not Juventus (in %)
Milan is a much more solid team at the moment

i'm not big fan of Milan, but i'm honest man

kassex

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The strength of Bayern is more team play than other teams in the Champions League. In other teams the quality of the game depends on a couple of players. Barcelona-Messi, Real Madrid, Ramos, Cross. Closer in spirit to Bayern is Atletico Madrid.

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Quote from: asus09 on January 05, 2021, 12:54:03 AM

Bayern become favorite because last year get win for champion league and I thinks this season have different thing from last season where match play only one game,

NO, Bayern becomes the most favorite club to win the title because they play consistently and has strong players in any position. Even some Bayern players showed impressive performances during this season. Bayern has a little conceded goals, while they scored many in almost every match. This is enough as the reason why Bayern Munchen to be the favorite club and they deserve it. Regarding will be only a one-game, I don't think it will make Bayern gets difficulties.

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Quote from: asus09 on January 05, 2021, 12:54:03 AM

Quote from: tyz on January 04, 2021, 06:34:54 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on January 01, 2021, 08:39:37 AM

I wonder why Man City is always over priced in the CL winner outright market. They're at 4.98 at FJ and prolly not far up or down at other books.

Solid spot is Bayern which the books have priced at 3.77. The last few years, I think Bayern was never below 5 or 6. Another solid spot could be Liverpool at 6.80... The rest are kinda sketchy.

I ask myself the same thing. Must be the coach and the squad in general. Otherwise I can't explain it myself.

As I wrote earlier, I think this year a surprise is possible. Bayern is my favorite, but you never know which teams will be affected by Corona. Let one or two top favorite teams have several corona cases before important matches and it could be that a good outsider can march through. Leipzig, Atletico Madrid or Atalanta Bergamo are such outsiders for me who could make it.

Bayern become favorite because last year get win for champion league and I thinks this season have different thing from last season where match play only one game, there are not have first and second leg so I think will have any surprise result for this season of champion league during many player get positive covid 19 during have match, maybe injury is not problem right now for many player but positive covid 19 will change all player composition because many player have in the list for playing match have miss after positive covid 19.

You may believe Bayern become favorite because they won last year Champion league tournament but they actually favorite because of their current form and their participation.
About the covid 19 lets hope many player wont be affected.

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Quote from: tyz on January 04, 2021, 06:34:54 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on January 01, 2021, 08:39:37 AM

I wonder why Man City is always over priced in the CL winner outright market. They're at 4.98 at FJ and prolly not far up or down at other books.

Solid spot is Bayern which the books have priced at 3.77. The last few years, I think Bayern was never below 5 or 6. Another solid spot could be Liverpool at 6.80... The rest are kinda sketchy.

I ask myself the same thing. Must be the coach and the squad in general. Otherwise I can't explain it myself.

As I wrote earlier, I think this year a surprise is possible. Bayern is my favorite, but you never know which teams will be affected by Corona. Let one or two top favorite teams have several corona cases before important matches and it could be that a good outsider can march through. Leipzig, Atletico Madrid or Atalanta Bergamo are such outsiders for me who could make it.

Bayern become favorite because last year get win for champion league and I thinks this season have different thing from last season where match play only one game, there are not have first and second leg so I think will have any surprise result for this season of champion league during many player get positive covid 19 during have match, maybe injury is not problem right now for many player but positive covid 19 will change all player composition because many player have in the list for playing match have miss after positive covid 19.

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Quote from: tokeweed on January 01, 2021, 08:39:37 AM

I wonder why Man City is always over priced in the CL winner outright market. They're at 4.98 at FJ and prolly not far up or down at other books.

Solid spot is Bayern which the books have priced at 3.77. The last few years, I think Bayern was never below 5 or 6. Another solid spot could be Liverpool at 6.80... The rest are kinda sketchy.

I ask myself the same thing. Must be the coach and the squad in general. Otherwise I can't explain it myself.

As I wrote earlier, I think this year a surprise is possible. Bayern is my favorite, but you never know which teams will be affected by Corona. Let one or two top favorite teams have several corona cases before important matches and it could be that a good outsider can march through. Leipzig, Atletico Madrid or Atalanta Bergamo are such outsiders for me who could make it.

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Quote from: babo on January 04, 2021, 09:01:21 AM

Quote from: Coyster on January 02, 2021, 11:09:58 AM

Quote from: coinriches on January 01, 2021, 12:33:26 PM

~

Do you consider 6th position as 'doing great' by Juve's standards, hell no, they are doing bad, can they still win the league? Definitely they can, they aren't too far off, if other teams lose form and they get theirs back, then they could, but for now they are far from doing great, they are used to winning the league with matches to spare, this season could be different and do not be surprised if they are left to battle for top four close to the end of the season.

~~~~

next week Juventus face the first of Italian Serie A (Milan) with strong Ibra
is hard game for Juventus (bettorz said, 3.30 for Juventus win, 3.15 for Milan win... they said Milan is more strong than Juventus)

but is normal, Juventus now is in 'storming' phase Cheesy

after we have 'normalizing' and after 'performing'

I don't think Juventus will win against Milan. Milan is very stable team. And they are able to win against any tough opponent. On the other hand, you will not see any continuity in the Juventus team's performance. Even in the Champions League, they did not perform well in the beginning. I bet for Milan. I'm sure Ibra won't disappoint me.

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Quote from: babo on January 04, 2021, 09:01:21 AM

Quote from: Coyster on January 02, 2021, 11:09:58 AM

Quote from: coinriches on January 01, 2021, 12:33:26 PM

~

Do you consider 6th position as 'doing great' by Juve's standards, hell no, they are doing bad, can they still win the league? Definitely they can, they aren't too far off, if other teams lose form and they get theirs back, then they could, but for now they are far from doing great, they are used to winning the league with matches to spare, this season could be different and do not be surprised if they are left to battle for top four close to the end of the season.

~~~~

next week Juventus face the first of Italian Serie A (Milan) with strong Ibra
is hard game for Juventus (bettorz said, 3.30 for Juventus win, 3.15 for Milan win... they said Milan is more strong than Juventus)

but is normal, Juventus now is in 'storming' phase Cheesy

after we have 'normalizing' and after 'performing'

Juventus most strong than AC Milan have Ibra or not this not give any impact for Juventus, maybe Ronaldo will give proof Juventus still the king of Serie A right now although Milan keep standing on the first top, Juventus have more chance to get three points from AC Milan and I think prediction Juventus will win with score 0-2 goal by Morata and Ronaldo.

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Quote from: Coyster on January 02, 2021, 11:09:58 AM

Quote from: coinriches on January 01, 2021, 12:33:26 PM

~

Do you consider 6th position as 'doing great' by Juve's standards, hell no, they are doing bad, can they still win the league? Definitely they can, they aren't too far off, if other teams lose form and they get theirs back, then they could, but for now they are far from doing great, they are used to winning the league with matches to spare, this season could be different and do not be surprised if they are left to battle for top four close to the end of the season.

~~~~

next week Juventus face the first of Italian Serie A (Milan) with strong Ibra
is hard game for Juventus (bettorz said, 3.30 for Juventus win, 3.15 for Milan win... they said Milan is more strong than Juventus)

but is normal, Juventus now is in 'storming' phase Cheesy

after we have 'normalizing' and after 'performing'

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Quote from: asus09 on January 03, 2021, 02:39:19 PM

Quote from: kassex on January 03, 2021, 04:44:31 AM

Quote from: adamvp on January 02, 2021, 07:15:51 AM

@kassex, with more years player lose one ability but get another, f.e. they lose speed but get endurance etc
You know most marathon champions are over 30 ..
But about Ronaldo I heard he has some knee disease which make him suffer more and more every year..

Football is not a marathon. When running a long distance, you need to choose the right tactics for distributing forces. Running on a marathon does not imply sudden accelerations and with sudden stops and running backwards. And so a dozen times per match. Football players have more load than a marathon runner, even if they run a shorter distance.

Football is not marathon but if you watch english primer league almost player needed working hard and running always because they use counter attack where forward need how speed when dribbling ball, so I think marathon and football have connected how player could run more than 90 minutes. Just few team playing with slowly mode because almost english club like for using way how most faster to scoring goal.

I compared football and marathon from a different position. Both marathon and football require a lot of endurance. But you are unlikely to see a marathon runner who first runs at a high speed of 50 meters, then runs back and then walks. And if at 30 you can at a calm pace. run a marathon, you can't play football on foot. Players over 30 years old lose in speed to younger players.

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Quote from: kassex on January 03, 2021, 04:44:31 AM

Quote from: adamvp on January 02, 2021, 07:15:51 AM

@kassex, with more years player lose one ability but get another, f.e. they lose speed but get endurance etc
You know most marathon champions are over 30 ..
But about Ronaldo I heard he has some knee disease which make him suffer more and more every year..

Football is not a marathon. When running a long distance, you need to choose the right tactics for distributing forces. Running on a marathon does not imply sudden accelerations and with sudden stops and running backwards. And so a dozen times per match. Football players have more load than a marathon runner, even if they run a shorter distance.

Football is not marathon but if you watch english primer league almost player needed working hard and running always because they use counter attack where forward need how speed when dribbling ball, so I think marathon and football have connected how player could run more than 90 minutes. Just few team playing with slowly mode because almost english club like for using way how most faster to scoring goal.

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Quote from: adamvp on January 02, 2021, 07:15:51 AM

@kassex, with more years player lose one ability but get another, f.e. they lose speed but get endurance etc
You know most marathon champions are over 30 ..
But about Ronaldo I heard he has some knee disease which make him suffer more and more every year..

Football is not a marathon. When running a long distance, you need to choose the right tactics for distributing forces. Running on a marathon does not imply sudden accelerations and with sudden stops and running backwards. And so a dozen times per match. Football players have more load than a marathon runner, even if they run a shorter distance.

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Quote from: coinriches on January 01, 2021, 12:33:26 PM

Yea right. And no noe can really count Juve out of winning their domestic league again this season. Judging by their position in the league thus far.

They doing really great.

Do you consider 6th position as 'doing great' by Juve's standards, hell no, they are doing bad, can they still win the league? Definitely they can, they aren't too far off, if other teams lose form and they get theirs back, then they could, but for now they are far from doing great, they are used to winning the league with matches to spare, this season could be different and do not be surprised if they are left to battle for top four close to the end of the season.

Quote from: asus09 on January 01, 2021, 01:37:57 PM

Maybe it will be revenge for PSG when they meet Barcelona, they still have a grudge when Barcelona was able to come back after losing a landslide score in the first...

That match is going to mean a lot, especially for the managers of both sides, Koeman is under severe pressure and being dumped out of the UCL in the last 16 could be the final nail on the coffin for him, as for Pochettino just coming in as a new manager, that game is going to be his first big test, and PSG are looking to move forward and build on their final appearance last season, he'll not like to be dropped at the last 16 stage, but one team must go home, and tbh, I think it's going to be Barcelona.

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Quote from: kassex on January 02, 2021, 07:11:44 AM

Quote from: jostorres on January 01, 2021, 01:51:54 PM

Quote from: leea-1334 on January 01, 2021, 10:00:20 AM

Quote from: kassex on January 01, 2021, 07:34:19 AM

Quote from: LittleBitFunny on December 26, 2020, 10:18:54 AM

Young players can counter-attack very quickly. But older players are a bit slow. In Seria A, all teams play attacking football. It is very important to make a quick counter attack in the champions league. Although there are many older players at Juventus, everyone's fitness is still great. But in the next few seasons, they will face serious problems if they do not have young talented players in their team.

Their great form is only seen in Serie A. In the Champions League, they are not that great. Compared to Liverpool, Bayern Munich, Juventus is not that strong.

Not necessarily. My team does quite well on counter and we have Son and Kane who were probably not as fast as they used to be,,, but much quicker in mentality and thinking, with the experience to see the right openings which as youngsters, can be bery hard to see.

Juventus is a not exact example but yes in general the past 2 seasons have seen the oldest players score goals as counter in Serie A. I would not say they are worse in UCL though,,, Atalanta and Napoli both gave Liverpool such a hard time remember?

Older players do not play worse than younger players, there is no logic like that anywhere in the world, if you are older you are older that doesn't change anything compared to others, it only changes compared to yourself. For example if you are Zlatan at age 40, that means you are still better than almost every other scorer in the world, maaaaybe some argument could be made for few others, but he is still much better than most others, you could have 15-30 year olds and anything between and they would still be worse.

This doesn't mean Zlatan wasn't better when he was 28, he could be better when he was 28, but that is only compared to himself. Juventus has Ronaldo for example, still better than many other players in the world, sure he may not be as good as he used to be himself, but he that is only compared to himself. We have to remember this when we look at their age.

Do you think that Zlatan is in the same shape as 10 years ago? If so, why didn't any top club buy it? Or do you think that Ronaldo at 34 plays the same way as 5 years ago? Ronaldo is already losing speed to many defenders from Serie A. Ramos is inferior in speed to attackers from less powerful teams. Marcelo is no longer able to move back to his position in defense.

Maybe so, but Zlatan has character and charisma and makes the players in his team better, which can be seen in the results.
Why Real is offering a contract extension for Ramos and Modric? Because they are very old and unnecessary players or because they are still better than younger players?
Ronaldo is still the top scorer and striker in Juve.
The mere fact that a player is younger and faster does not mean that he is better.

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@kassex, with more years player lose one ability but get another, f.e. they lose speed but get endurance etc
You know most marathon champions are over 30 ..
But about Ronaldo I heard he has some knee disease which make him suffer more and more every year..

kassex

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Quote from: jostorres on January 01, 2021, 01:51:54 PM

Quote from: leea-1334 on January 01, 2021, 10:00:20 AM

Quote from: kassex on January 01, 2021, 07:34:19 AM

Quote from: LittleBitFunny on December 26, 2020, 10:18:54 AM

Young players can counter-attack very quickly. But older players are a bit slow. In Seria A, all teams play attacking football. It is very important to make a quick counter attack in the champions league. Although there are many older players at Juventus, everyone's fitness is still great. But in the next few seasons, they will face serious problems if they do not have young talented players in their team.

Their great form is only seen in Serie A. In the Champions League, they are not that great. Compared to Liverpool, Bayern Munich, Juventus is not that strong.

Not necessarily. My team does quite well on counter and we have Son and Kane who were probably not as fast as they used to be,,, but much quicker in mentality and thinking, with the experience to see the right openings which as youngsters, can be bery hard to see.

Juventus is a not exact example but yes in general the past 2 seasons have seen the oldest players score goals as counter in Serie A. I would not say they are worse in UCL though,,, Atalanta and Napoli both gave Liverpool such a hard time remember?

Older players do not play worse than younger players, there is no logic like that anywhere in the world, if you are older you are older that doesn't change anything compared to others, it only changes compared to yourself. For example if you are Zlatan at age 40, that means you are still better than almost every other scorer in the world, maaaaybe some argument could be made for few others, but he is still much better than most others, you could have 15-30 year olds and anything between and they would still be worse.

This doesn't mean Zlatan wasn't better when he was 28, he could be better when he was 28, but that is only compared to himself. Juventus has Ronaldo for example, still better than many other players in the world, sure he may not be as good as he used to be himself, but he that is only compared to himself. We have to remember this when we look at their age.

Do you think that Zlatan is in the same shape as 10 years ago? If so, why didn't any top club buy it? Or do you think that Ronaldo at 34 plays the same way as 5 years ago? Ronaldo is already losing speed to many defenders from Serie A. Ramos is inferior in speed to attackers from less powerful teams. Marcelo is no longer able to move back to his position in defense.

Topic: UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread - page 847. (Read 129790 times)