Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 47.

Astargath

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Quote from: BADecker on June 18, 2018, 07:06:58 AM

Quote from: Astargath on June 18, 2018, 05:27:08 AM

Badecker claims that everything has a cause and that cause also has a cause, till god. If everything has a set cause then how can I actually have free will? If everything has a set cause, nothing is random, therefore everything is already set, everything that I will do today, tomorrow and for the rest of my life is already set to happen. If that's the case then it is impossible for me to have free will, my decisions aren't really mine and because everything was created by god, as you claim, god is responsible for our actions, therefore he shouldn't punish or reward us.

Punishing or rewarding doesn't have anything to do with "He shouldn't." Actually, it's just the opposite. Since God designed the evil for a day of punishment, and the good for a day of righteousness, He absolutely should reward and punish.

The free will that God gives lies only in the direction of the faith of people. And God reinforces that faith in the direction it is going.

If your faith is such that it is against God, He will help you maintain it in that direction, even though He offers you the opportunity to change. This means that it is your own choice, and that God, being the dynamic and positive God that He is, is giving you the things that you choose out of love for you, but is also warning you about you faulty choices out of that same love.

Read Romans chapter 22 so that you can see that God is making an offer to people, and they are choosing what they choose, and He is maintaining their choice for them - http://biblehub.com/niv/romans/9.htm.

The place that cause and effect fits in is this. We are too weak spiritually to make anything happen. God makes our choices happen for us, via C&E, so that they match His design for the universe, and our position in it.

Cool

How does your faith in god change then?

BADecker

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Quote from: Astargath on June 18, 2018, 05:27:08 AM

Badecker claims that everything has a cause and that cause also has a cause, till god. If everything has a set cause then how can I actually have free will? If everything has a set cause, nothing is random, therefore everything is already set, everything that I will do today, tomorrow and for the rest of my life is already set to happen. If that's the case then it is impossible for me to have free will, my decisions aren't really mine and because everything was created by god, as you claim, god is responsible for our actions, therefore he shouldn't punish or reward us.

Punishing or rewarding doesn't have anything to do with "He shouldn't." Actually, it's just the opposite. Since God designed the evil for a day of punishment, and the good for a day of righteousness, He absolutely should reward and punish.

The free will that God gives lies only in the direction of the faith of people. And God reinforces that faith in the direction it is going.

If your faith is such that it is against God, He will help you maintain it in that direction, even though He offers you the opportunity to change. This means that it is your own choice, and that God, being the dynamic and positive God that He is, is giving you the things that you choose out of love for you, but is also warning you about you faulty choices out of that same love.

Read Romans chapter 22 so that you can see that God is making an offer to people, and they are choosing what they choose, and He is maintaining their choice for them - http://biblehub.com/niv/romans/9.htm.

The place that cause and effect fits in is this. We are too weak spiritually to make anything happen. God makes our choices happen for us, via C&E, so that they match His design for the universe, and our position in it.

Cool

BADecker

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^^^ The core question is, is atheism a religion? After all, atheism matches some of the basic fundamentals found in all religions.

The most important of these fundamentals is that everybody knows that God might exist somewhere people haven't examined yet. This makes atheism a religion that is only attempted to be believe by those who claim that they are atheists. They know that they could absolutely and easily be mistaken. Therefore, they don't really believe their own atheism.

Cool

Gorchiza_112

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Atheist don't believe in religion.. But do thety hate it?
I don't think so. The core question is creation of Earth and is. Atheists believe in science or UFO Grin

What I mean ... you don't need to hate something you don't believe in.

Astargath

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Quote from: notbatman on June 17, 2018, 11:06:26 PM

Quote from: Astargath on June 17, 2018, 08:07:36 PM

Quote from: BADecker on June 17, 2018, 08:03:06 PM

Quote from: Astargath on June 17, 2018, 07:17:05 PM

Quote from: notbatman on June 03, 2018, 02:45:37 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

In answer to the bit about religious leaders, let's try a thought experiment. Let's suppose your church is absolutely right, in every feature and detail. That means you and I can agree that all those OTHER believers--everyone who has viewed God differently than you do--has been mistaken. That's over 6 of the 7 billion alive today, and tens of billions through history believing in false gods.

Who could be behind all these false gods?

People are behind all gods, what's amazing is that they actually convinced people who live in 2018 that they exist. I understand that thousands of years ago, people were ignorant and a god seemed like a plausible explanation but now? It's just silly, really.

Cause and effect is behind everything. If people are behind the gods, then whatever started C&E is behind the gods.

Cool

So no free will, which means your god cannot be real because he supposedly gave us free will. You can't have free will and cause and effect on everything.

Thanks for feigning being a "fellow atheist", I think he knows better folks. Look what he's doing, he's claiming cause & effect and free will are mutually exclusive. Show us proof of your claim mr super-star.

I suspect he's pushing a group consensus on no God because he believes he is chosen by God and his people are are the only ones who can know about the creation of Earth and Man. Everybody not part of the tribe needs to believe in atheism because they're filthy slave animals not worthy of the truth. You and your children need to believe you're insignificant microscopic specs of shit stuck to the surface of a lifeless ball of space rocks hurtling through a cold, empty lifeless vacuum sparsely lit with heavy balls of fire. There's no heaven for filthy goyim like you, just the wrath of heavy balls of fire in the sky.

It could also be I'm mistaken and he's a hardcore degenerate psychopath and the thought of facing consequences for his actions from a righteous, just and all seeing God has him in panic mode; atheism is a way for him to bury his head in the sand. I'm guessing knowledge of an all seeing entity recording everything causes some hardcore "oh shit" moments for a lot of people.

Badecker claims that everything has a cause and that cause also has a cause, till god. If everything has a set cause then how can I actually have free will? If everything has a set cause, nothing is random, therefore everything is already set, everything that I will do today, tomorrow and for the rest of my life is already set to happen. If that's the case then it is impossible for me to have free will, my decisions aren't really mine and because everything was created by god, as you claim, god is responsible for our actions, therefore he shouldn't punish or reward us.

Umamisnack

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I have friends who are atheists and they don't really hate religion, they hate pushy people and in return become sarcastic and mean. I don't casually share religion related stuff because it causes arguments. If you believe in God, then think about what He wants, and definitely it's not to hate His creations.

notbatman

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Quote from: Astargath on June 17, 2018, 08:07:36 PM

Quote from: BADecker on June 17, 2018, 08:03:06 PM

Quote from: Astargath on June 17, 2018, 07:17:05 PM

Quote from: notbatman on June 03, 2018, 02:45:37 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

In answer to the bit about religious leaders, let's try a thought experiment. Let's suppose your church is absolutely right, in every feature and detail. That means you and I can agree that all those OTHER believers--everyone who has viewed God differently than you do--has been mistaken. That's over 6 of the 7 billion alive today, and tens of billions through history believing in false gods.

Who could be behind all these false gods?

People are behind all gods, what's amazing is that they actually convinced people who live in 2018 that they exist. I understand that thousands of years ago, people were ignorant and a god seemed like a plausible explanation but now? It's just silly, really.

Cause and effect is behind everything. If people are behind the gods, then whatever started C&E is behind the gods.

Cool

So no free will, which means your god cannot be real because he supposedly gave us free will. You can't have free will and cause and effect on everything.

Thanks for feigning being a "fellow atheist", I think he knows better folks. Look what he's doing, he's claiming cause & effect and free will are mutually exclusive. Show us proof of your claim mr super-star.

I suspect he's pushing a group consensus on no God because he believes he is chosen by God and his people are are the only ones who can know about the creation of Earth and Man. Everybody not part of the tribe needs to believe in atheism because they're filthy slave animals not worthy of the truth. You and your children need to believe you're insignificant microscopic specs of shit stuck to the surface of a lifeless ball of space rocks hurtling through a cold, empty lifeless vacuum sparsely lit with heavy balls of fire. There's no heaven for filthy goyim like you, just the wrath of heavy balls of fire in the sky.

It could also be I'm mistaken and he's a hardcore degenerate psychopath and the thought of facing consequences for his actions from a righteous, just and all seeing God has him in panic mode; atheism is a way for him to bury his head in the sand. I'm guessing knowledge of an all seeing entity recording everything causes some hardcore "oh shit" moments for a lot of people.

BADecker

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Quote from: Astargath on June 17, 2018, 08:07:36 PM

Quote from: BADecker on June 17, 2018, 08:03:06 PM

Cause and effect is behind everything. If people are behind the gods, then whatever started C&E is behind the gods.

Cool

So no free will, which means your god cannot be real because he supposedly gave us free will. You can't have free will and cause and effect on everything.

How do you know that God didn't give us free will?

You talk kinda funny. You claim that God doesn't exist, but you agree that everything is set up by C&E. Now if mankind can put together domino chains that use C&E, why is it that you can't see that the Setter Upper of the C&E of the whole universe fits the definition of God?

50,000 DOMINOES & CHAIN REACTIONS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBqE1M9_lP8

Youtube search on "domino and other chains."

Ignore it all you want. But sooner you later you will really have to stick your head into a hole in the sand to ignore it.

Cool

Astargath

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Quote from: BADecker on June 17, 2018, 08:03:06 PM

Quote from: Astargath on June 17, 2018, 07:17:05 PM

Quote from: notbatman on June 03, 2018, 02:45:37 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

In answer to the bit about religious leaders, let's try a thought experiment. Let's suppose your church is absolutely right, in every feature and detail. That means you and I can agree that all those OTHER believers--everyone who has viewed God differently than you do--has been mistaken. That's over 6 of the 7 billion alive today, and tens of billions through history believing in false gods.

Who could be behind all these false gods?

People are behind all gods, what's amazing is that they actually convinced people who live in 2018 that they exist. I understand that thousands of years ago, people were ignorant and a god seemed like a plausible explanation but now? It's just silly, really.

Cause and effect is behind everything. If people are behind the gods, then whatever started C&E is behind the gods.

Cool

So no free will, which means your god cannot be real because he supposedly gave us free will. You can't have free will and cause and effect on everything.

BADecker

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Activity: 3906

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Quote from: Astargath on June 17, 2018, 07:17:05 PM

Quote from: notbatman on June 03, 2018, 02:45:37 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

In answer to the bit about religious leaders, let's try a thought experiment. Let's suppose your church is absolutely right, in every feature and detail. That means you and I can agree that all those OTHER believers--everyone who has viewed God differently than you do--has been mistaken. That's over 6 of the 7 billion alive today, and tens of billions through history believing in false gods.

Who could be behind all these false gods?

People are behind all gods, what's amazing is that they actually convinced people who live in 2018 that they exist. I understand that thousands of years ago, people were ignorant and a god seemed like a plausible explanation but now? It's just silly, really.

Cause and effect is behind everything. If people are behind the gods, then whatever started C&E is behind the gods.

Cool

Astargath

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Activity: 1624

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Quote from: notbatman on June 03, 2018, 02:45:37 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

In answer to the bit about religious leaders, let's try a thought experiment. Let's suppose your church is absolutely right, in every feature and detail. That means you and I can agree that all those OTHER believers--everyone who has viewed God differently than you do--has been mistaken. That's over 6 of the 7 billion alive today, and tens of billions through history believing in false gods.

Who could be behind all these false gods?

People are behind all gods, what's amazing is that they actually convinced people who live in 2018 that they exist. I understand that thousands of years ago, people were ignorant and a god seemed like a plausible explanation but now? It's just silly, really.

Spendulus

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Atheist don't hate god, they just want to keep an equal relation with every god so that they don't get punished by any of them.

It's not just about not getting punished, it's about getting the good stuff.

Hey, don't forget the free handouts, various highs, and beer.

notbatman

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Quote from: ?? on ??

In answer to the bit about religious leaders, let's try a thought experiment. Let's suppose your church is absolutely right, in every feature and detail. That means you and I can agree that all those OTHER believers--everyone who has viewed God differently than you do--has been mistaken. That's over 6 of the 7 billion alive today, and tens of billions through history believing in false gods.

Who could be behind all these false gods?

BitNow

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The phrase "atheists hate gods (AHG) is a fallacious anti-atheist argument which attempts to label atheism as a mere emotional opposition to gods, rather than a reasoned denial of the existence of said gods. Atheists do not deny the existence of god(s) because they "hate god(s)" or "want to live in sin", because atheists don't believe in these things, any more than Christians hate, say, the gods of Hinduism. If they're mad, generally they're pissed at something a religious person or group has done

That is the first rational explanation I read since August 2015 I'm following this thread.

Have a productive day.

Astargath

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Quote from: notbatman on June 01, 2018, 04:34:07 AM

^^^ One day nothing exploded for no particular reason and the shit from the explosion condensed into a ball due to the magic of gravity. The ball of shit then formed life for no particular reason that then evolved into monkeys who birthed humans.

This is the official atheist narrative and anybody who belives it is a gullible fool.

You realize that your narrative is far crazier right? Your narrative is that a supernatural being magically created everything from nothing and now observes us.

TooQik

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Quote from: BADecker on June 01, 2018, 08:41:36 PM

Quote from: TooQik on June 01, 2018, 10:30:53 AM

Quote from: notbatman on June 01, 2018, 04:34:07 AM

^^^ One day nothing exploded for no particular reason and the shit from the explosion condensed into a ball due to the magic of gravity. The ball of shit then formed life for no particular reason that then evolved into monkeys who birthed humans.

This is the official atheist narrative and anybody who belives it is a gullible fool.

Yes, it's much better to believe that nothing made everything in six or seven days than to believe nothing exploded and the Universe, Earth and life formed over millions of years. Roll Eyes

Big bang is absence of nothing as well as all the stuff that supposedly came into being. Consider it well. What do you have when you don't have anything and you don't have nothing. That's essentially what big bang is all about. Is that what is easy to believe?

Isn't it a lot easier to believe that God lives in something like a universe that is way different than anything in our universe, and that He made our universe and everything in it, all in 6 days because of how much power He has?

But here is the really big question. WHY do you believe it one way or the other? Even Hawking just before he died expressed essentially that the "place" that big bang came from is completely unknown and not even knowable.

Cool

I used the word nothing in both cases in an attempt to highlight the flaw in notbatman's attempt to ridicule Atheists; the key point is not the word nothing.

It doesn't matter whether you believe in a Creator or the Big Bang, both require the existence of something outside of our known universe. The choice past the point of our universe's creation as to whether to believe in a Creator or Big Bang then becomes one of evidence. I personally fail to see any evidence of a supreme being's hand in anything that occurs around me in day to day life. On the other hand, I use humankind's collective knowledge on a day to day basis to understand, explain and interact with the things going on around me.

Now, you ask "Isn't it a lot easier to believe that God...". This is the fundamental issue I have with any religious faith, instead of using the words "I don't know" to explain a gap in their knowledge they replace it with "God/Allah/Jesus/ did it". Imagine what the world we live in today would be like if no-one had searched for answers outside of religious texts.

BADecker

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Quote from: TooQik on June 01, 2018, 10:30:53 AM

Quote from: notbatman on June 01, 2018, 04:34:07 AM

^^^ One day nothing exploded for no particular reason and the shit from the explosion condensed into a ball due to the magic of gravity. The ball of shit then formed life for no particular reason that then evolved into monkeys who birthed humans.

This is the official atheist narrative and anybody who belives it is a gullible fool.

Yes, it's much better to believe that nothing made everything in six or seven days than to believe nothing exploded and the Universe, Earth and life formed over millions of years. Roll Eyes

Big bang is absence of nothing as well as all the stuff that supposedly came into being. Consider it well. What do you have when you don't have anything and you don't have nothing. That's essentially what big bang is all about. Is that what is easy to believe?

Isn't it a lot easier to believe that God lives in something like a universe that is way different than anything in our universe, and that He made our universe and everything in it, all in 6 days because of how much power He has?

But here is the really big question. WHY do you believe it one way or the other? Even Hawking just before he died expressed essentially that the "place" that big bang came from is completely unknown and not even knowable.

Cool

TooQik

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Quote from: notbatman on June 01, 2018, 04:34:07 AM

^^^ One day nothing exploded for no particular reason and the shit from the explosion condensed into a ball due to the magic of gravity. The ball of shit then formed life for no particular reason that then evolved into monkeys who birthed humans.

This is the official atheist narrative and anybody who belives it is a gullible fool.

Yes, it's much better to believe that nothing made everything in six or seven days than to believe nothing exploded and the Universe, Earth and life formed over millions of years. Roll Eyes

notbatman

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^^^ One day nothing exploded for no particular reason and the shit from the explosion condensed into a ball due to the magic of gravity. The ball of shit then formed life for no particular reason that then evolved into monkeys who birthed humans.

This is the official atheist narrative and anybody who belives it is a gullible fool.

Astargath

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Quote from: notbatman on May 31, 2018, 02:15:28 AM

Atheism is a conspiracy, liars who hate God because they're criminals convincing gullible and weak minds that nothing exploded one day and created everything. They hate being judged for their crimes so they hate any group that has any kind of moral code. This hate gets instilled in the Atheist by the liar who hates God for being judged.

Being critical of the atheist doesn't get at the root of the problem, the liar who hates God and who is waging a war on God needs to be dealt with.

Mate, you realize that 99.99% of religious people also know the earth is not flat? This is not a matter of belief or not and while I agree that most religious people are quite gullible, they are not this gullible.

Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 47. (Read 901342 times)