[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1520.

wachtwoord

legendary

Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125

Quote from: owlcatz on August 29, 2014, 05:14:40 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on August 29, 2014, 05:02:50 PM

Quote from: rpietila on August 29, 2014, 04:57:19 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on August 29, 2014, 04:34:35 PM

Quote from: rpietila on August 29, 2014, 01:23:06 AM

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Yes, but the same is true for any other altcoin (even the most junky ones), the same is true for the existence of any god. This is just not how logic works though.

Mind that Bitcoin and Monero are the only cryptocurrencies I currently hold.

I like this conversation! Can you elaborate on how "This is just not how logic works though"?

edit - I don't believe in god, so i can't relate to that argument at all, and i don't believe most if not all alt-coins have any chances against either btc or xmr right now, but that's just my opinion.

Disclaimer - I only hold Bitcoin and Monero as well. Seems to be common around here for some reason..

Thanks!

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager It's one of the most famous examples of incorrectly applied logic.

owlcatz

legendary

Activity: 3570

Merit: 1959

Quote from: wachtwoord on August 29, 2014, 05:02:50 PM

Quote from: rpietila on August 29, 2014, 04:57:19 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on August 29, 2014, 04:34:35 PM

Quote from: rpietila on August 29, 2014, 01:23:06 AM

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Yes, but the same is true for any other altcoin (even the most junky ones), the same is true for the existence of any god. This is just not how logic works though.

Mind that Bitcoin and Monero are the only cryptocurrencies I currently hold.

I like this conversation! Can you elaborate on how "This is just not how logic works though"?

edit - I don't believe in god, so i can't relate to that argument at all, and i don't believe most if not all alt-coins have any chances against either btc or xmr right now, but that's just my opinion.

Disclaimer - I only hold Bitcoin and Monero as well. Seems to be common around here for some reason..

Thanks!

owlcatz

legendary

Activity: 3570

Merit: 1959

Quote from: rpietila on August 29, 2014, 04:57:19 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on August 29, 2014, 04:34:35 PM

Quote from: rpietila on August 29, 2014, 01:23:06 AM

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Awesome analogy Risto, i hadn't thought of that way until now, but i agree 100%. (Well, unless you've been tax dodging for years and are looking at time in federal prison or something crazy)! Cheesy

wachtwoord

legendary

Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125

Quote from: rpietila on August 29, 2014, 04:57:19 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on August 29, 2014, 04:34:35 PM

Quote from: rpietila on August 29, 2014, 01:23:06 AM

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Yes, but the same is true for any other altcoin (even the most junky ones), the same is true for the existence of any god. This is just not how logic works though.

Mind that Bitcoin and Monero are the only cryptocurrencies I currently hold.

owlcatz

legendary

Activity: 3570

Merit: 1959

Quote from: 5w00p on August 29, 2014, 12:21:34 PM

GUI wallet talk = beatdown of a deceased equine

+100 , omg, so sick of it... Here's the deal people - If you are afraid or not technically smart enough to understand or use "simplewallet.exe"'s EXTREMELY SIMPLE CLI interface, then XMR "may" not be right for you at present time.

If that is the case, but you still wish to use the coin, go use the official unofficial guis.

Or, simply... just go.

- peace out!

rpietila

donator

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1036

Quote from: wachtwoord on August 29, 2014, 04:34:35 PM

Quote from: rpietila on August 29, 2014, 01:23:06 AM

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

owlcatz

legendary

Activity: 3570

Merit: 1959

Quote from: Mumbles on August 29, 2014, 12:14:58 PM

Quote from: owlcatz on August 28, 2014, 05:37:51 PM

i would not say it's "horrifically user unfriendly", but it's not like most wallets for sure - I'm sorry that most people today are petrified/scared/turned off by CLI, but as an old school dude, i love it to be honest. i don't care about the gui wallet, it will just inflate the price once it comes, making them harder/more expensive to buy.

Unfortunately the fact that you have that view makes you unsuitable to comment on the user friendliness required for a successful coin. Think about the process of using CoinBase to buy and sell and send BTCs. Then compare that to Monero's process.

Monero needs to have that level of simplicity and elegance for ease of use in order to get the non technical masses to adopt. No one other than technical geeks is going to be even attempting to use a command line. And that population is about 1% or less of the potential base.

I think everyone on here pretty much understands this at this point. Design for Grandma and you win. Design for Linus Torvalds and you lose.

The good news is that the new GUI looks excellent, and will be a nice step forward. The pace of development in other areas like the database, etc... is horribly slow though, so it remains to be seen whether some other BCN clone or other coin ends up leapfrogging XMR and winning in the marketplace. The hard part with new paradigms is that the best technology doesn't always win. Its the one that is "good enough" and gets the most attention/network effect that will win.

Ok, i can take that bit of criticism no problem, and I guess you have a valid point there, i may not be the best to evaluate that part, but again, I disagree with the "Horrifically user unfriendly" part - Why?? 1 reason - if that were truly the case, this coin would have been DOA, but.. it's... not... so... ... meh, sorry.. you get my point i think.

The wallet will come. until then. I'll continue to feel "Smart" because i can type in a dos box and move thousands of dollars around quite easily and safely ... (LMFAO at sock puppet #2 below your post .. good grief)... Wink

wachtwoord

legendary

Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125

Quote from: rpietila on August 29, 2014, 01:23:06 AM

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

nioc

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 1008

Me and my Misses are missing the Missive.

We are however patient. Cool

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on August 29, 2014, 01:44:20 PM

Quote from: Triffin on August 29, 2014, 12:22:48 PM

Monero is purposely not easy at this point in time ..
A gambit that may backfire .. time will tell ..

Triff ..

I'm not sure I'd call it entirely a gambit. Perhaps it is parlaying the situation.

I believe the devs when they say:

1. They want to do the work deliberately and carefully.
2. They have some fundamental changes to make (database, clean up etc.) first.
3. They all have limited time as they are not getting rich from a premine and therefore work.

Then the idea that "slow to bring features" which will allow the less tech adept to enter is a side effect of the current focus and pace.

I agree with you though it could backfire. And the longer they take to get some fundamental coding finished the more likely the failure.

I don't think we are in danger yet, but I'd still like to see some notable progress soon.

There is most certainly no gambit. We have provided temporary solutions while we do important work on the foundation:

1. Memory/database: Increase swap space, this is reported to work fine for storing the blockchain in virtual memory (most of the blockchain is never accessed so it can safely stay in swap with acceptable performance).

2. GUI: Use one of the third party GUIs, the development of which we sponsored and supported (and continue to support, if unofficially).

cAPSLOCK

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 5146

Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!

Quote from: Triffin on August 29, 2014, 12:22:48 PM

Monero is purposely not easy at this point in time ..
A gambit that may backfire .. time will tell ..

Triff ..

I'm not sure I'd call it entirely a gambit. Perhaps it is parlaying the situation.

I believe the devs when they say:

1. They want to do the work deliberately and carefully.
2. They have some fundamental changes to make (database, clean up etc.) first.
3. They all have limited time as they are not getting rich from a premine and therefore work.

Then the idea that "slow to bring features" which will allow the less tech adept to enter is a side effect of the current focus and pace.

I agree with you though it could backfire. And the longer they take to get some fundamental coding finished the more likely the failure.

I don't think we are in danger yet, but I'd still like to see some notable progress soon.

Triffin

sr. member

Activity: 952

Merit: 251

Monero is purposely not easy at this point in time ..
A gambit that may backfire .. time will tell ..

Triff ..

5w00p

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 502

GUI wallet talk = beatdown of a deceased equine

georgehosterguy

member

Activity: 196

Merit: 12

Quote

Unfortunately the fact that you have that view makes you unsuitable to comment on the user friendliness required for a successful coin. Think about the process of using CoinBase to buy and sell and send BTCs. Then compare that to Monero's process.

Monero needs to have that level of simplicity and elegance for ease of use in order to get the non technical masses to adopt. No one other than technical geeks is going to be even attempting to use a command line. And that population is about 1% or less of the potential base.

Haha ya "i love to use command lines to move money around in a dos prompt with different colored text ... it makes me feel smart"

don't think that makes you qualified to use "user friendly" in the same sentence there guy Roll Eyes

"Hey grandma ... see you just type send and use copy / pase ... no grandma don't type it out the address ... it will take too long. No grandma .. no no ...

Shocked

"Please quit yelling at me grandma Embarrassed

it's user friendly for cli plus it makes you feel smart. It will help your brain stay agile grandma Kiss

awww grandma ... why did you erase me from your will? I was just trying to support my favorite coin Cry

"

Ya I'd say OFFICIAL GUI ASAP so grandma doesn't get upset Cheesy

Mumbles

newbie

Activity: 50

Merit: 0

Quote from: owlcatz on August 28, 2014, 05:37:51 PM

i would not say it's "horrifically user unfriendly", but it's not like most wallets for sure - I'm sorry that most people today are petrified/scared/turned off by CLI, but as an old school dude, i love it to be honest. i don't care about the gui wallet, it will just inflate the price once it comes, making them harder/more expensive to buy.

Unfortunately the fact that you have that view makes you unsuitable to comment on the user friendliness required for a successful coin. Think about the process of using CoinBase to buy and sell and send BTCs. Then compare that to Monero's process.

Monero needs to have that level of simplicity and elegance for ease of use in order to get the non technical masses to adopt. No one other than technical geeks is going to be even attempting to use a command line. And that population is about 1% or less of the potential base.

I think everyone on here pretty much understands this at this point. Design for Grandma and you win. Design for Linus Torvalds and you lose.

The good news is that the new GUI looks excellent, and will be a nice step forward. The pace of development in other areas like the database, etc... is horribly slow though, so it remains to be seen whether some other BCN clone or other coin ends up leapfrogging XMR and winning in the marketplace. The hard part with new paradigms is that the best technology doesn't always win. Its the one that is "good enough" and gets the most attention/network effect that will win.

superresistant

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1131

Quote from: saddambitcoin on August 29, 2014, 08:01:12 AM

Quote from: hologram on August 29, 2014, 07:51:23 AM

Not enough RAM ?

Aha. I have 4GB of RAM on the computer in question but maybe that is the issue. The last time I ran bitmonerod on this computer was 2 months ago. Went to upgrade to the new version and haven't been able to get it working. No big deal though I can still run simplewallet and use it as an offline address generator.

I know that on Linux, it comes from the swap size.
To fix it, increase the swap size.

Majormax

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1129

Quote from: DrG on August 29, 2014, 12:46:53 AM

I must say that I am impressed with the dev team. Obviously more money pouring in would help things roll out faster but finding open palms is somewhat hard with all the scams brought onto the forums.

I remember the BTC infancy days and all the problems. Monero seems to be BTC2.0 but in a hyperaccelerated state.

+1

The fog of scams and pump/dump schemes has made it harder to indentify real utility. Some currencies have real advances and will succeed, but some also will not survive, even if they are better.

The correct sort of development with promotion and funding will make the difference.

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1030

Sine secretum non libertas

Quote from: saddambitcoin on August 29, 2014, 08:01:12 AM

Quote from: hologram on August 29, 2014, 07:51:23 AM

Not enough RAM ?

Aha. I have 4GB of RAM on the computer in question...

And so it begins.

I smell a buying opportunity coming up.

saddambitcoin

legendary

Activity: 1610

Merit: 1004

Quote from: hologram on August 29, 2014, 07:51:23 AM

Not enough RAM ?

Aha. I have 4GB of RAM on the computer in question but maybe that is the issue. The last time I ran bitmonerod on this computer was 2 months ago. Went to upgrade to the new version and haven't been able to get it working. No big deal though I can still run simplewallet and use it as an offline address generator.

hologram

sr. member

Activity: 504

Merit: 250

Not enough RAM ?

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1520. (Read 4670972 times)